Banu Defender

[Pharesm]

On 4/18/2017 at 5:08 PM, Leonn said:

Yeh, I just realised that myself. So could still be a two seater

Also I am sure I heard Ben say that Banu ships take more crew than other races and it would be at least two for the defender. I'm sure it was on the batgirls last show

@Pharesm  The Amarr of Star Citizen  ;-)

Haha, Yes mate  Even though I played mostly Minmatar (projectile) the epic battles using Amarr laser fleets is something I really hope we see from the Banu. And now talk about new gravitational tech for the Kr'Thak has me pretty excited again. I really can't wait to see how the new Banu weapons are going to play out.

What I didn't know yet - about the precious clothing styles of the Banu from ATV, which also match the Amarr ;D

I played Amarr in EVE, from 2003 to 2010, but maxed out my Minnie skills all the same ^^

 

Now I'm hoping we won't fight round target symbols in SC, like we did rectangles in EVE, with actual ships all too rare to be visible, unless you were flying a close range rail-gun murder-boat

[Fizzlefuse]

20 minutes ago, Pharesm said:

What I didn't know yet - about the precious clothing styles of the Banu from ATV, which also match the Amarr ;D

I played Amarr in EVE, from 2003 to 2010, but maxed out my Minnie skills all the same ^^

 

Now I'm hoping we won't fight round target symbols in SC, like we did rectangles in EVE, with actual ships all too rare to be visible, unless you were flying a close range rail-gun murder-boat

Seeing as the most recent changes to the flight model makes dogfighting way more close combat, I think you'll see plenty of any ship before you blow it up;)
Chris Roberts is a big fan of WWII style dogfighting so we're good in that department:p

[AstroJak]

Man, what a beautiful ship. Again CIG blows me away.
Very tempted (once again) to get a new ship.. might just wait untill it's ingame tho.

on a side note, if CIG ever releases a coffee-table artbook with all their ship art/concept art, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Heck, they could release multiple volumes of artbooks and I'd buy each and every one of them. The artwork is absolutely stunning.

The idea of an art book is a great one...id like to see that as well...

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[VoA]

 

From Bored Gamer

[Grizzlyb]

Nice ship, but being not into combat, I'll wait for the concept ship, the NOX.

 

[AstroJak]

Am I the only one who thinks this ship will have massive blind spots due to those big crab arms in front of the gunner? Having never flown a glaive, which has similar but smaller arms i cant really say but it just feels like too much fashion over form.

[Devil Khan]

You are just trying to justify yourself and not buy seventeen.  The pilots sits on top with 2 blind spots left and right. However, they have a clear view of anyone who is in front. However he does have a "radar"  so if he was  in a windowless cockpit I think he would be ok as he would still be able to use the "radar"

If I am correct, they are  equipped with extremely long range weapons.  

[VoA]

31 minutes ago, AstroJak said:

Am I the only one who thinks this ship will have massive blind spots due to those big crab arms in front of the gunner? Having never flown a glaive, which has similar but smaller arms i cant really say but it just feels like too much fashion over form.

Great Catch... 

It doesn't bother me that much because it isn't meant to be a "Dog-Fighter" - it is meant to be a screening / escort ship (basically putting itself in harms way to take the hits away from a convoy / supply ship)

10 minutes ago, Devil Khan said:

You are just trying to justify yourself and not buy seventeen. 

Gesh...... now you have done it...... .... he's going to have to get 18 defenders now just because you said that 

11 minutes ago, Devil Khan said:

The pilots sits on top with 2 blind spots left and right. However, they have a clear view of anyone who is in front. However he does have a "radar"  so if he was  in a windowless cockpit I think he would be ok as he would still be able to use the "radar"

If I am correct, they are  equipped with extremely long range weapons.  

Agree with both points and see image of its long range weapon....

 

+++ STL always has a good analysis...

 

[Devil Khan]

One thing to note, it is an escort ship and not a fighter like he said. There is only one other ship like it vanguard warden, but she lacks the major Armor and the firepower (can't judge the agility yet). The ship is designed for long range as it is an escort ship.

until we get the concept deal-ie-o, won't have shrimps of details. I do kinda like them. However, I do like this ship, bit more than what I thought, but I'd assume that it would only have limited weapons

[AstroJak]

3 hours ago, Devil Khan said:

You are just trying to justify yourself and not buy seventeen.  The pilots sits on top with 2 blind spots left and right. However, they have a clear view of anyone who is in front. However he does have a "radar"  so if he was  in a windowless cockpit I think he would be ok as he would still be able to use the "radar"

If I am correct, they are  equipped with extremely long range weapons.  

 

Haha...yeah i actually do drum up reasons not to buy them all!!!

Ill likely do what i did with the terrapin, ill load up my buy back log and melt all but one.

That way ill have a supply for those that either where on the fence or not yet a member of imperium.

Eg) i have 25 buccs on buy back

I am hopful that the techon weapons are long range, heavy hitting, ship transferable and either size 5 or 6.

If i get what im asking for on my wish list then im putting 2 on my prowler!!!

 

Ps i just checked...when will the sale start? Its like 3:05pm and no sale....

 

4:30pm and still nothing... what is this sale going start when they all go home on the westcoast or what?

 

 

 

[Trophias]

All links available:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Add-Ons/Banu-Combo-Pack-Warbond-Edition
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Add-Ons/Banu-Combo-Pack
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Standalone-Ships/Banu-Merchantman-Warbond-Edition
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Standalone-Ships/Banu-Defender-Warbond-Edition
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Standalone-Ships/Banu-Defender
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Standalone-Ships/Banu-Merchantman-Banu-Sale

 

Comm Link: 
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15862-Banu-Defender 

[Devil Khan]

Huh, 4x S3 Weapons and 4x S3 missiles. 4x S3 are pretty nice at lonk range

kinda would have more missile racks, but still.

Ok max shield is S1 ... However S1 power plant... with 4x energy based weapons and back again to the shield part?

too much "coming soon" in the stats page. Seriously the most yet.

[VoA]

 

 

Banu Defender Copit View

[Booster Terrik]

When I saw the detailed blueprint from the front in the sales brochure I had to laugh: Like Astro already said ... visibility is piss poor. Unless the ship can be flown nose down (while still keeping the guns level) this ship needs a major redesign. The cockpit for both pilot and gunner literally lies completely behind the gun mounts so they can only see directly ahead for about 10 degrees to the right or left of center   In order to aim the gun the banu must be using an old fashioned iron sight straight down the tachyon cannon's barrel

Really the idiot that designed that ship should learn an important rule in aerial combat : you kinda need to see the other ship inorder to be able to kill it ....

[VoA]

@Booster Terrik - however.... as mentioned before this isn't meant to be a "Dog-Fighter" ---- it is an Escort Fighter designed to screen trade / convoy ships.   You can see the cockpit view in the images above your post (it isn't that bad).

++++++++++

People are forgetting something.....

Do you remember what I pointed out with the F8 Lighting - That the UEE newer designs are using Hull protrusions to protect critical aspects of the ship (like the cockpit) from Vanduul wing blade (ramming attacks)........ well......... these extension arms on the Banu Defender are perfect for this defense as well....... and maybe worth having vs getting rammed in a low armored ship like the Defender in the cockpit - right?

Note though the F8 Lighting also has Hull Protrusions to protect the man thrusters - the Banu Defender does not.

[Booster Terrik]

Maybe it's me but I don't see any reason why you would extend your gun that far ahead of the cockpit. If you need long barrels fine but just move them to the left and right of the cockpit (or even below or above) and further back but this makes no sense. Even long range sniper type ships will need to dogfight eventually when the enemy closes on them and this ship has the worst cockpit view of any fighter post WW2  It is another example of a designer trying to make something "Alien" and not taking into account that a species that has achieved space flight most likely also has developed a brain and will create functional ships and not unique disfunctional ships that look "interesting". Like the blade on the Vanduul fighter : seriously .. you gonna ram a ship in space and expect to survive the impact .... if you ram the ship you won't need the blade, both ships will die even without the blade

[VoA]

5 hours ago, Booster Terrik said:

Maybe it's me but I don't see any reason why you would extend your gun that far ahead of the cockpit. If you need long barrels fine but just move them to the left and right of the cockpit (or even below or above) and further back but this makes no sense. 

I don't think CIG got super detailed in the "why" of the design (most ships are concepted for look / appearance) - but occasionally CIG does value engineering reasons.

As an architect / aerospace-engineer myself.... I can think of a number of reasons for the long arms.... one I mentioned above (and here is a list below)....

1. To protect vs. Vanduul Blade / Ramming attacks
2. The Singe Sniper weapons (2 of them are gimble'd - the ones on the struts) may need bigger housing to gimble
3. Heat Dissapation area
4. Componet Hull locations (Since the hatiable body is so compact)
5. The Arms give more surface area to "protect" or block incoming enemy fire to a convoy ship
6. The arms are more likely to get hit first (not just from ramming attacks but from incoming fire)
7. The arms may actually be useful for ramming (learning from Vanduul Tactics) - and to protect a trade ship - a Defender may opt or need to ram
8. The Aspect of the ship makes it easier to target a Snipe shot (its easier to snipe with a rifle than a pistol)
9. etc....

==========

I agree the design isn't great for Dog-Fighting....... but again its an Escort Ship

Same can be said for the Khartu-al - it is more of a Scout Ship (and may have better scanning options - we don't know yet) - but its protrusions don't help it dog-fight but will obviously have other functions for it being a Scout.

[Athenos]

The 4x Size 3 are gimbaled so they could potentially be 4x Size 4 fixed. With 2x Size 3 missile hardpoints it is a heavy hitting ship.

[Devil Khan]

Yup, possible S4. I knew that, they would be a higher cost, but considering it is the same amount as the Hurricane. I'm pretty happy, just need to confirm the shield, because S1 is low, even the Vanguard has a lot more shields. Anyway  it was said on AtV that is is heavy on the shield.

However, remember that it is just concept they will change anything or modify it if there is a bad fault/weakness/error. I already said Vangaurd and that has several changes to the actual concept. The Wings on both vanguard, tali and sabre were supposed to be  closed with or  something similar. There will be changes like that to the defender. Like the Vanguard turret was changed a whole lot. It was originally supposed to be retracted down and covered over by a shield, but  now it is fixed on top.

[GeraldEvans]

21:9 wallpaper courtesy of u/~~Sal~~ over at r/WidescreenWallpaper

And the rest of the images at full quality from the brochure.
 

HQ Banu Merchantman and Defender Art from the Defender Brochure

 

[VoA]

Voon

4/22/17
- Added Banu Defender

Player Images...

Banu Defender - CIG already has Potential Cockpit Visibility - SOLVED

Add your input to this Spectrum Thread so CIG sees it --->> LINK

We know the Banu will adapt their ships to fit its marketing base (humans in this case) - as mentioned in the Concept Sale. Right now the concept is - that the Defender has a landing mode and a flight mode (this is how the Banu have developed the ship for themselves)

 

Humans would not only modify the controls in the cockpit but would ALSO allow the Banu Defender to FLY and FIGHT in its Landing Configuration which would solve the Visibility Issue (see images)

 

Humans would adapt the Banu Defender to 3 Modes (not confined to 2 Modes as designed by the Banu)

1. Landing Mode - Same as top image as the Banu intended
2. Dog-Fighting Mode - Same as = Landing Mode - Configuration would be adapted by the Banu for Humans with the ability to dog-fight with the Inclination of the Arms downward (like in the top image) - and the gimble weapons on the ends of the arms could compensate to still fire forward as needed.
3. Sniping / Ramming Mode - Same as the Banu's normal flight mode which would be fine for fixed weapons (or gimble) on the arms and the Banu (learning from the Vanduul) would potentially use the arms as rams like the Vanduul use their wing-blades for ramming (and ramming would actually be an escort / sacrifice function to defend merchant ships).

-----------------------

Yes we have other threads reducing the arms, modifying the location of the mid-section, etc.... but those are radical departures from the Banu Design - already revealed in the concept sale. Allowing a 3 mode option (allowing you to fly with inclined arms) is an easy solution for CIG. What do you think?

 

The next image shows the Banu fighting the Vanduul - and thus they would pick up on Ramming as a viable - sacrifice / defending tactic - to use for the arms (maybe they have more armor)

 

The last two images are from the holoviewer - which the community is complaining about - luckily CIG has an easily solution per above.

[Reavern]

The Banu Defender isn't what I was expecting, but I still like it. It's a beautiful ship, like the Merchantman, and it's distinctively alien, which is very appealing. My most common criticism of CIG's ships is that they're too traditional; the starfighters look like airplanes and the starships look like oceanfaring ships. I think that's a deliberate style choice by Chris Roberts to make the human ships more traditional. The Banu Defender fulfills my desire for a very alien looking starfighter.

I understand that the Defender's "wing arms" seem to obstruct visibility, but I don't think that's a major problem with the Defender as much as other starfighters, because its Tachyon cannons are "sniper cannons" that will be shooting at targets positioned in-between the arms at long-range. I don't believe the Defender is intended to be a dogfighter that will engage in turning fights with agility fighters, which will get obstructed by the Defender's arms. I think that the Banu operate Defenders in a picket formation around a Merchantman and snipe at enemy fighters and ships, and perhaps incoming missiles/torpedoes. I think the Defender will be excellent at uncoupled turreting.

The only issue I have with the wing arms is what function do they serve? Why are they so large? Aside from a gimballed Tachyon cannon on each tip, what components do they contain? Because according to the ship diagrams, they don't seem to house any components. The diagrams don't indicate that the arms contain the ship's power plant(s) or shield gen(s) or engine intakes or weapon coolers or anything else. I thought maybe the Tachyon cannons required dedicated power plants or special coolers or recoil dampening systems or something. But there's no mention of anything. I don't mind the wing arms if they're justified. If it's purely cosmetic -- to make the Defender look "alien" -- then I don't like it.

Regarding the Singe Tachyon cannons, I'm disappointed that the Banu brochure didn't explain them in any detail, especially since the Defender, which is designed as a human export starfighter, is equipped with four of them, instead of a mix of Singe cannons and conventional human weapons. I want to know the Tachyon cannon's range, velocity, DPS, and ROF. Hopefully they'll be explained in the Q&A this week.

Overall, I kinda like that the Defender isn't for everyone. It means that they'll be a rare sight in the PU, as they should be, which will make mine more special and valuable.  The Defender also pairs perfectly with my Merchantman. It'll be fun to run Banu Merchant convoys across the frontier and into Banu, Xi'An, and possibly Vanduul space.

[GeraldEvans]

I'd say that they're large to hold the tachyon cannons (and any other size three weapons) entirely internally, plus have room for internal missile bays.

I like the Defender though and what they're doing with it. Now if only they'd go back to the Khartu and fix it.

[Reavern]

29 minutes ago, GeraldEvans said:

I'd say that they're large to hold the tachyon cannons (and any other size three weapons) entirely internally, plus have room for internal missile bays.

I like the Defender though and what they're doing with it. Now if only they'd go back to the Khartu and fix it.

The Defender's Singe Tachyon cannons are partially integrated with the arms, but the arms certainly don't need to be so long to accommodate them. This is further supported because the other two Singe Tachyons are located under the Defender's "chin".

As this pic shows, the Defender's missile pylons are external hardpoints located on the ventral side of the main fuselage, not on the arms. I'm not a fan of their placement there because they just seem to be tacked on, similar to the missile pylons on the Vanguard and Cutlass. CIG did that for the sake of simplicity, so they could get those ships flyable in Arena Commander ASAP. (The placement of the Vanguard's missiles doesn't match the concept art at all, which point to hidden missile launchers in the Vanguard's "shoulders" between the nose and the engines. But for AC, CIG just stuck the missile racks under the Vanguard's wings.) I suspect CIG's concept artist(s) decided to make it easy on the ship modelers by placing the Banu Defender's missile pylons externally.

However, considering the superb artisanal craftsmanship of the Banu Defender, the missile pylon placement seems conspicuously inelegant. I think the Defender should have missile bays integrated into the arms -- but that isn't the case.

I hope CIG refines the Defender's ship design in the production phase. They need to incorporate components into the arms that justify their size. I think that each arm should house a shield generator, which would make sense because the Defender is supposed to have very tough shields. It would also be good if the arms had cargo storage. But I know that would be incongruous with the Banu's guild mentality wherein people and objects are supposed to be dedicated to one particular thing. That probably means that giving a Banu starfighter the ability to carry some cargo would be contrary to the Banu's ship design philosophy -- although perhaps an exception could be made since the Defender is an export model with cockpits intended for humans.

Another idea is that the Defender's arms could be used for gripping and moving cargo containers. Again, that would be contrary to the Banu's philosophy, but it would explain why the arms are so large. Also, it's shown that the arms articulate downward in landing mode, so clearly the arms can move. It would make sense that the arms were designed for gripping cargo containers to help load/unload a Merchantman transport in space.

[GeraldEvans]

Hmm. Perhaps you could word the load out analysis as a question (read suggestion) for the Q/A.