Crusader Hecules Starlifter

[Devil Khan]

One thing, it is a cargo carrier. Why the hell are its engines so small(on the outside), they look even smaller on the back.

However the layout looks pretty good internally. Just a nice "escape hatch" would be nice. opening doors with no power can't be easy.

[Danakar Endeel]

4 hours ago, Citadel_1664 said:

I have to say I weren't a huge fan of the "Hercules" series going from the concept art - However seeing the in-game renders I'm starting to like it more and more definitely looking forward to being able to test fly it in-game!

Yeah, I just hope that the team didn't follow the Stats Page when setting up components because for some reason the Hercules was listed with Medium Fuel tanks and Medium Quantum fuel tanks. That just makes no sense for a ship this size to have such small fuel tanks; especially a ship meant to transport cargo over long distances and down to the planet surface. It definitely needs Large fuel tanks; just like every other ship in that size category.

I also hope that the Hercules will have escape pods for the crew and that the lack of escape pods on the Mercury was an oversight and not some wierd intentional 'feature' from the manufacturer. After all, Crusader did not strike me as a company to skimp on safety features like Drake. 

So I hope that the lack of escape pods on the Mercury was an oversight that will be rectified at some point. CIG already admitted that the lack of a second exit was an oversight that should not have happened and that they might use that large dead-space on the starboard side for one.

So those of you who own a Starlifter or are planning on owning one, don't forget to check what size components it has and how much fuel it carries onboard once it is flyable ingame. Also check to see if you can get yourself to safety via escape pods or not.

Here's an older image I pulled from an AtV episode where the plan showed escape pods on the Hercules to be in that tunnel directly behind the bridge. I was expecting the Mercury to have escape pods in that spot as well because it's from the same manufacturer, has a similar number of crew, and the same long tunnel behind its cockpit. 😕

[GalYurr]

It seems the M2 might have some extra features up its sleeve we don't know about yet, but we'll see. 

[Buckaroo]

2 hours ago, GalYurr said:

It seems the M2 might have some extra features up its sleeve we don't know about yet, but we'll see. 

Interesting, but will it be worth the ridiculous amount of money to upgrade to the M2?

[Citadel_1664]

1 hour ago, Buckaroo said:

Interesting, but will it be worth the ridiculous amount of money to upgrade to the M2?

That's a very good question, although I often wonder what then makes the next price jump from M2 to A2 so significant as well so I'm interested in seeing the different between all variants!

[Danakar Endeel]

7 hours ago, GalYurr said:

It seems the M2 might have some extra features up its sleeve we don't know about yet, but we'll see. 

Hmmm, that is very interesting! Thank you for sharing.

I always found it very peculiar why the price difference between the C2 and M2 was so ridiculously high. Originally people had to pay +$140 just for 1 extra 2xS3 turret and medium armor but at the cost of 25% cargo capacity (you wouldn't have access to the separate cargo hold that's on the C2). Compare that to the Starfarer and Gemini where the Gemini was only +$40 but received larger guns on all manned turrets, more powerful thrusters (the Gemini is faster than the Starfarer), extra armor, and a missile launcher with 9 S3 missiles; also at the cost of 25% cargo capacity. When asked about the armor CIG also stated that the armor difference of the C2 and M2 was basically the same as the difference between the Starfarer and Gemini. 

So I definitely hope that M2 owners get some meaningful upgrades over the C2 as $140 was a pretty hefty price to pay for the minimal extras it originally came with.

I have CCUs available for both a C2 and M2; both which use a Merchantman as a base. An old $10 Merchantman-to-C2 CCU that I can still apply and a newer $30 Merchantman-to-M2 that I bought after the Merchantman price was increased to $450. So I guess I'll have to keep my eye on that M2 now and see if it actually gets more than just an extra turret and some armor.  

[Danakar Endeel]

From the looks of it, the guns on the turret have been increased to S4 instead of S3; which is nice as S3s on a ship this size felt a bit small. Stock turret guns are all Behring M6A Laser Cannons while pilot guns are S5 with gimbal S4 Revenants. No additional weapons/missiles (at least on the C2/M2). The A2 appears to have all S4 guns as well as those additional S5 single remote turret guns.

 

The Hercules appears to have 2 Large Coolers, 2 Large Shield Generators, 2 Large Fuel Tanks and 2 Large Quantum Fuel Tanks.

 

Components for the C2 are all IND-C grade while for the M2 & A2 they are all MIL-C grade; except for the shields which are MIL-B grade. 

 

The following is datamined information from an early 3.12 Evocati build.

• Coolers: 2x S3 ThermalCore on the C2, 2x S3 Mercury on the M2/A2

• Power Plant: S3 Ginzel on the C2, S3 SuperDrive on the M2/A2

• Quantum Drive: S3 Kama on the C2, S3 Pontes on the M2/A2

• Shields: 2x S3 Stronghold on the C2, 2x S3 FullBlock on the M2/A2

Remote Turrets:

• Either one or two remote turrets on the C2. One on the top-rear for sure. S4 dual BEHR laser cannons

• M2 is identical to C2, possibly one more turret

• Five remote turrets on A2. Nose is S4, rest are S5. Nose, and rear L/R turrets are BEHR laser cannons, front two L/R turrets are AMRS laser cannons

Notes:

• All models have 2 fuel scoops and 2 fuel tanks.

• C2/M2 have both a front and rear ramp, Bomb bay doors on the A2. Currently unknown whether there will be a lift to the ground.

• No docking collar on any model.

• Self-destruct timer is 60 seconds long.

• Ship dimensions match concept.

Raw data:https://pastebin.com/ucHgA6gQ

[Danakar Endeel]

Also, forgot to post it here but there was this little tidbit a while back

Quote

In the UK, the Crusader C2 Hercules was handed to the downstream teams and progress was made on the A2 and M2 variants. Specifically, the A2 received a control room for the turrets while the M2 gained a jump-seat room for the crew of the ground vehicles.

• https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17975-Star-Citizen-Monthly-Report-January-2021

So that might be what MGibson meant. 

[Danakar Endeel]

From the Subscriber Vault

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[VoA]

 

[Buckaroo]

Found someone streaming a first look of the Hercules C2 on Youtube...

 

[Danakar Endeel]

After seeing the PTU images trickling in I think that the M2 feels lacking; especially considering the massive +$120 price difference.

Instead of a rec room and kitchen for the ship crew that area is replaced with 12 jumpseats (do we even need that many seats?) and an armory. We were told these seats were for the vehicle crew so why is there a need for an additional armory? Wouldn't those troops have their weapons stored in their vehicles already?

Instead of an extra armory this ship should have had a kitchen; especially considering the increased number of people onboard.

To me the M2 actually feels like it should have had a lower price than the C2 as the C2 actually feels like the upgraded model. If anything the M2 does not feel like it's worth the extra $120 that people had to shell out for it. Now I'm actually starting to regret applying my M2 CCU when I could have just gone with the C2 instead for more cargo as well as a nice rec room and kitchen for me and my crew. 😒

So for +$120 the M2 gets armor and an extra turret. But at the cost of 33% cargo space, no rec room, no kitchen, and stock components that look like they are actually worth less than the stock components on the C2.

That front gun on the M2 also feels very tacked on and with the rec area replaced by jumpseats it feels like the M2 is the stripped down version instead of the other way around. Just like how the Hoplite is the lesser version of the Warden because that one replaces all the crew amenities with jumpseats.

On a separate note, the Hercules appears to have multiple escape pods. If those are escape pods I have to wonder why CIG didn't bother to give the Mercury any escape pods. The Mercury has a similar crew requirement compared to the C2/M2 and is also considered a cargo transport yet on the Mercury there isn't a single escape pod; even though it has a long empty hallway behind the cockpit that could have easily housed 3 escape pods. 😕

[Devil Khan]

The question is though how many buggy can you fit excluding Bay doors of course. 

To be honest, the exit doors are lacking for the large ships, case in point no large doors for a salvaged like the Reclaimer Should have put it above the bay doors at the front they look lacking and a rush job.

Still I like the, C2 variant anyway. Cargo is the main hauling it is designed for and it does that beautifully. Although wtf would anybody pay for the A2 $720( I think) willingly.

[ChiefWarrant]

@Danakar Endeel Agree with a lot of what you said.  Before I yap on... the MSR will be getting escape pods in the future on the starboard side in the corridor to the bridge.

I DEFINITELY agree that the mark up was WAY overpriced compared to the C2.  The added armor, loss of cargo SCU (for no reason other than balance), and the weak chin turret doesn't seem to make that +$120 worth it.  MAYBE a HOT LZ scenario, but I am guessing most tactical commanders would clear the area first and have the C2 come in and drop the tanks in a neutral area.  

Hurry and put in a ticket and see if they will remove the CCU upgrade.  OR... wait to see that the price hike will be and use it as an awesome CCU platform.  At $480 on concept, I am sure it will go up on release and you can then use to get to another bigger ship.  

[Buckaroo]

I was pretty un-impressed when the MSR modeled was released. It just got way too huge for what I wanted, even if it was still fast.  The inside layout to me was also weird, and with a few other decisions made I have yet to apply my MSR CCU (and may not at all).

Now with the Hercules, I'm once again wondering who the hell is making all these stupid decisions with the idiotic excuse that there needs to be difference because of "balance".  Why can't the C2 have the third cockpit seat?  Why shouldn't the C2 have the bunk beds?  Why can't the M2 have the same CSU?  Why can't the M2 have a kitchette?  Because the C2 and M2 must have "balance" and there's gotta be a reason for $120 difference.

This could have been a simple and EASY difference between the two.  Start with the C2 design, but include the third cockpit seat and third bed.  (I'd also say the top-side layout could have been a LOT better designed to allow more facilities/etc.)

Next for the M2, leave the top-side the same, but in the bottom carve out a specific area for troop seats and armory along the sides that doesn't allow cargo to be positioned as wide as in the C2.  It would still allow both tanks to fit in, but not the same amount of cargo as the C2--You'd also get to keep the kitchenette in the M2.

 

But no, someone has decided to make it hard and make (in my opinion) idiotic design decisions.  It's because of this I've lost a lot of interest in CIG and their ships.

[Danakar Endeel]

5 hours ago, ChiefWarrant said:

@Danakar Endeel Agree with a lot of what you said.  Before I yap on... the MSR will be getting escape pods in the future on the starboard side in the corridor to the bridge.

I DEFINITELY agree that the mark up was WAY overpriced compared to the C2.  The added armor, loss of cargo SCU (for no reason other than balance), and the weak chin turret doesn't seem to make that +$120 worth it.  MAYBE a HOT LZ scenario, but I am guessing most tactical commanders would clear the area first and have the C2 come in and drop the tanks in a neutral area.  

Hurry and put in a ticket and see if they will remove the CCU upgrade.  OR... wait to see that the price hike will be and use it as an awesome CCU platform.  At $480 on concept, I am sure it will go up on release and you can then use to get to another bigger ship.  

Thanks! Yeah, I already sent in a ticket asking if CS can separate/remove that last CCU so that I get my BMM back. Then I also still have an old $10 BMM-to-C2 CCU from before the price hike so in that case I could always change it to a C2 (provided CS is willing to remove that M2 CCU that I had applied). If CS can't/won't help then yeah I could just see how high the M2 will go and use it as a CCU to something else (maybe a Perseus). 

One thing in your post is confusing to me though. You state that the Mercury will be getting escape pods in the future. Could you tell me where you heard/saw this as I don't recall them ever stating this. All I know was that the lack of a second entry was an oversight that should not have happened and that they might use the dead space in that starboard area near the cockpit for one. However, I do not recall any mention of the Mercury getting escape pods in the future.

[ChiefWarrant]

It was on one of those Friday pod cast with Jared and the designers... let me go look for it and I'll post it here for reference.

Around 11:35 into this video.  

 

 

 

[Zeabz]

Yeah I am really un-Impressed with how the Hercules turned out.  To me it seems like there is a lot of wasted space in that central core area.  I just think it could have been utilized a little better.  like perhaps make it the central rec area.. add a table (such as putting a simple piece of glass on that central hump and allow it to overhand a half meter on each side.. boom.. instant built in table.. that wait.. also supports a larger aux-crew when needed )  there is easily room for a small kitchen and maybe even a game table of sorts, its a big area use it.  

The layouts are also different as well.. and oddly lacking.. the ship hull is symmetrical.. yet one side has a rather large armory.. yet its mirror is void space... (A2 feature? similar to how the C2 has a tiny table.. yet the M2 has the much larger armory) the void mirror space could have made a nicely appointed captain quarters (similar to the Starfarer.. but not quite as large.. ship class wise that matches up).. then with the food and rec areas being utilized in that central area.. turn the other spaces into bunks (All variants could then use the extra people space to ferry low requirement passengers or something long (when required) distances when not being used in combat ops .. the M2 and I assume A2 have the potential of having like 13? addition aux-crew.. hopefully your not going far.  But seriously Crusader.. shuttling people is what they do.. seems like a missed opportunity to augment some checkbooks

In summary

Where the armory is n the M2.. C2 gets scan protected storage.. in the void mirror space all 3 ships get a legit captain quarters with more protected storage (every captain has their private stash of space weed, booze and that one or two special item).  new core is where everyone hangs out during down time.. and you get way more functionality with the bunks and legit kitchen/seating areas for crew moral and long haul ops.   

I had planned on using the A2 as a long haul missions runner for small group play.. not looking good..    Perhaps CIG wanted to influence how the ship will be ultimately used in the end.. unless they add a few features.. it looks likes only short trip cargo (the C2 is actually pretty solid and can do multiple types of long haul missions with 2 crew.. M2 as well with 3.. but the no table thing seems odd to me.. especially for a MMO that definitely has a focus on immersion.. ) and drop runs.. which seems rather niche for such a spendy ship..  but it is what it is..  I do like the exterior of the ship though.... at the end the day, to me, the $$$ does not justify what you get.  I just think it could have been so much more        

[Buckaroo]

I completely agree, Zeabz.  The cargo aspect is awesome, and design of the Hercules is great.  But it's just so EMPTY on the upper deck.  I had created some alternative versions just for fun that included better uses of the hallways made into rooms with a central walkway (think like the Carrack).  My ideas included like a better lounge, better crew accommodations, simple seats for personal transport, or just rooms for more cargo.  My last thought was maybe a larger elevator to bring ranger-or-similar sized vehicles for storage up-top too.  You know, ideas to make a transport ship be able to do more transport-like duties.

I ended up deleting the thread because all I got back on Spectrum was literally hate for even having ideas.

[Danakar Endeel]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:58 AM, ChiefWarrant said:

It was on one of those Friday pod cast with Jared and the designers... let me go look for it and I'll post it here for reference.

Around 11:35 into this video.  

 

 

 

Thanks for the video but unfortunately that only talks about how the single entry was an oversight that should not have happened and that they might go back to it someday and use that dead space in the starboard section near the cockpit for one. I did not hear anything about any escape pods getting added for the crew; even though it's a standard safety feature onboard the C2 and M2. The C2 has 2 escape pods while the M2 has a whopping 8 for some reason. I suspect they gave the M2 8 escape pods because the A2 also has a crew of 8 and they didn't want to bother changing it again for that variant. 

But yeah, considering that the Mercury has the same style tunnel behind the cockpit as the Hercules CIG could very easily add 3 escape pods on the port-side while adding a doorway to the starboard-side leading to a ramp to the outside. Here's hoping...

[Danakar Endeel]

Initially I was completely sold on the Hercules M2. It was supposed to have the same amenities as the C2 but with additional armor and an extra turret at the cost of 25% cargo capacity. During a monthly report they even stated that it had "gained a room for jumpseats for the vehicle crew" and I assumed that this was a room in the upper area where the C2 would have its extra cargo space.

What I did NOT factor in was that the only way the M2 'gained' a room was by ripping out the crew rec rooms and kitchen completely! That was really some crappy word twisting. I mean, if I rip the kitchen out on my own home I guess I could claim that it gained a room but that's really stretching the truth here.

Fortunately it seems the devs took note of the community's discontent and stated that they will be giving the M2 some kitchen facilities. Just not to the extent of the C2. A real shame they ripped out that entire room in the first place though as they could have simply done it the same way as the Starfarer. That ship just has 12 jumpseats without it having to come at the cost of anything else. They are just there in the cargobay.

So yeah, personally I don't see why CIG didn't just put those jumpseats and armory for the vehicle crew in the cargobay where the vehicles are. It would also explain why there would be less room for cargo as the jumpseats and armory would be located there. With the jumpseats and armory downstairs CIG could have kept the entire upper deck the same between models.

Another thing I noticed in CIG's most recent Hercules advertisement was the total cargo from the M2. Originally SirBerticus calculated that the M2 would have 522 SCU (while C2 had 596 SCU) but apparently CIG reduced that cargo even more and now it just has 468 SCU while they reduced the C2 to 672 SCU (down from 696SCU). So the C2 has appriximately 144% more cargo capacity. That's quite the difference and way more than the initial statement that the M2 would have 25% less cargo capacity as the cost for heavier armor and 1 extra turret (while costing $120 more).

So yeah, at the moment I have a CCU-chain up to a Merchantman and have a separate $30 BMM-to-M2 CCU. Additionally I also have an old $10 BMM-to-C2 CCU (from when the Merchantman was still $350).

At present time I'm leaning towards the C2 though but I'll wait to see what CIG plans to do with that kitchen area that they said they want to add to the M2 now. That 44% reduction in cargo is pretty steep though...

Star Citizen Live: All About Spaceships timestamp 38m 44s

Would be neat if they could make some minor modification to the crew quarters where they remove one of those desks for a kitchen and then remove that wierd wall with those useless bags hanging there for a breakfast nook.  

[Zeabz]

Yeah just adding a table to the M2 would make it seems so much more complete to me..  my parents have a small ass boat with something like  25 - 40? square feet of space in it.. and even it has a table that fits 3..  granted its also the floor board when not in use.. still they made it work.. 🤣🙃

 

[Danakar Endeel]

Well, at the moment I have a C2 loaner because Customer Support was willing to separate the M2 CCU that I had applied prematurely so it turned my ship back into a BMM. After seeing that it had no kitchen (which they did show in the Subscriber Area to make people assume it was standard on all models) I'd rather get the C2 now.

I also noticed something wierd with the M2. First the front gun felt tacked on, as if they had run out of time. Then I also noticed that it only had 8 escape pods even though there is 3 crew and 12 jumpseats (15 people total). Lastly I saw that the armory only has 8 armor storage pods.

It was then that I noticed that the A2 has a crew size of 8! So it looks like CIG only made the C2 and A2 as true variants while the M2 is just a chopped-up A2 with an artificially reduced version of the C2's cargogrid and a jumpseat room instead of the crew rec room.

So it looks like the A2 will have the same 8 escape pods and armory; and will also likely have a second sleeping quarters attached to the first sleeping quarters (each with 4 beds for a total of 8).

I just hope that they will put a kitchenette in and that little dining area in the crew quarters of the M2 (image shown above) so that the ship's crew at least has some minor facilities.

For me however, I prefer the larger rec room and fullsize kitchen of the C2 so I will likely go with that. I don't really care about the extra turret and the extra armor is probably just going to be like a 10-15% damage reduction. I will just have to rely on my 2xL shields.

[GRIZZ]

 

Quote

Thanks! I added that. It really bothers me that the rocks are not rotating though! With the new tech added for orison leaves we can now add rotation slow down on impact so that it doesnt look odd having rotating debris on the floor.

For those saying tha the S10 bomb needs this kind of visuals, again, they are coming   - TeoBarrault-CIG