Buying LTI

[segevbr]

Can I buy LTI without a ship? or do I need to buy it with a ship in a package?

[Chimaera]

LTI is no longer in existence without purchasing a LTI package or ship from a PLAYER. They are ALL tied into an account and a specific ship or package only.

[segevbr]

LTI is no longer in existence without purchasing a LTI package or ship from a PLAYER. They are ALL tied into an account and a specific ship or package only.

 

Are they going to sell the LTI back one day?

[danredda]

Are they going to sell the LTI back one day?

Unlikely. LTI spawned a grey market that they never initially anticipated. Apart from some expensive packages, LTI is dead and buried, and will stay so.

[Nameless]

Just in case:

 

 

 

• Lifetime Insurance
  • Replaces your ship hull in the event of destruction or theft.
  • Hull is replaced with an identical model in equivalent condition.
  • Effective indefinitely with no additional in-game fee.
• Standard Hull Insurance
  • Replaces your ship hull in the event of destruction or theft.
  • Hull is replaced with an identical model in equivalent condition.
  • Effective for a set period of time: currently one, three or six months.
  • Must be renewed with in-game credits once expired.

 

The highlighted part is the only difference. LTI does not include anything else (e.g upgrade insurance) It was only a perk for early backers. 

[Swiftsure]

Yea, it's just ship insurance that doesn't cost credits to renew. And even then I can't imagine ship insurance will break anyone's bank, seeing as how it's just this games lore explanation for ship respawn. 

 

It's like getting a car with free lifetime windshield wiper fluid. Nice, but not really a big deal. It's noting that gives you any advantage over other car drivers.

 

There is a grey market over at reddit where they sell LTI ships, but the prices are very high. Not worth it unless you think of it as a collectors item or something.

 

Plus, you could just as well buy UEC from CIG to pay for renewing the insurance in game. That'd be effectively the same thing really.

[IceManZaroth™]

Yea, it's just ship insurance that doesn't cost credits to renew. And even then I can't imagine ship insurance will break anyone's bank, seeing as how it's just this games lore explanation for ship respawn. 

 

It's like getting a car with free lifetime windshield wiper fluid. Nice, but not really a big deal. It's noting that gives you any advantage over other car drivers.

 

There is a grey market over at reddit where they sell LTI ships, but the prices are very high. Not worth it unless you think of it as a collectors item or something.

 

Plus, you could just as well buy UEC from CIG to pay for renewing the insurance in game. That'd be effectively the same thing really.

 

Trust us Capital Insurance will be costly ... this is where LTI comes into its own

[Ford_Prefect]

Trust us Capital Insurance will be costly ... this is where LTI comes into its own

 

I didn't realize that CGI had announced insurance fees?

[Reavern]

Trust us Capital Insurance will be costly ... this is where LTI comes into its own

 

LTI is also important for backers with a personal fleet of ships. Standard hull insurance may not cost a lot for one ship, but the monthly cost could add up for 10+ ships. It's possible that players would choose not to insure some of their ships every month, and leave them in their hangars until they're needed, and then purchase SHI.

 

I didn't realize that CGI had announced insurance fees?

 

CIG hasn't announced the exact amount, but CR has stated that it will be "easily affordable".

[NaTtype]

@Chimaera actually LTI is STILL available but only on the higher priced multi ship packages starting with the $2,700 Fleet Pack all the others packages above that one still carry LTI as well.  

 

So all the ships in that package carry LTI.

 

[Chimaera]

Ah yeah, I know that much... I was more trying to answer the question of the OP as to if LTI could be purchased SEPARATE from ships and ship packages or if a ship/ship packages were needed.

[Swiftsure]

LTI is also important for backers with a personal fleet of ships. Standard hull insurance may not cost a lot for one ship, but the monthly cost could add up for 10+ ships. 

 

Because if you have a personal 1000$+ fleet, it's the few extra UEC for insurance that's going to break the bank? 

[VoA]

The most effective ships to have LTI on is the racing ships like the M50 or 350R since you will only likely race with stock build out and you could crash or damage your ship a lot pushing it to it limits if racing through an obstacle course (like an asteroid field). The Murry Cup race in the Ellis system will be a big deal with huge prizes

[Pyrozr]

You also have to remember that Insurance is on a ship by ship basis in relation to the value of the ship. LTI is not a blanket ALL ships you own until the end of time are replaced for free. If that were the case we would feed someone with LTI money so they could buy a huge capital ship and then "steal" it from them, over and over and over again until we had a massive fleet of ships for the price of 1.

 

LTI only applies to the ships in the package.

 

If you have a LTI package and you buy a dreadnought/corvette/fighter/Etc. in game you will have to insure that ship like everyone else. It would literally be game breaking if you can steal big ships from another player and they instantly spawn another in their hangar(for free). As it is anyone with a Idris and LTI could literally scam the system by taking a stock Idris(or any other ship in their package) out into non-UEE space and let someone board it and assume control. They would re appear back in their hangar with a shiny new Idris and no consequences. The "stolen" Idris would be attacked by UEE if it entered their space but I'm sure that a lot of places will have no problem letting a "stolen" UEE ship fly around. Who knows there may even be able a pirate base somewhere that can re-ID a stolen ship, like changing a stolen car's VIN.

 

I am very suspect of LTI, and CIG will have to watch anyone with LTI hulls very carefully to make sure that they aren't flooding the game with stolen ships. Personally I wouldn't participate in this type of action because I feel like it would be a ban-able offense.

[Payens]

I am very suspect of LTI, and CIG will have to watch anyone with LTI hulls very carefully to make sure that they aren't flooding the game with stolen ships. Personally I wouldn't participate in this type of action because I feel like it would be a ban-able offense.

 

If it comes to stealing there is no difference between an LTI ship and a normally insured ship. A traditionally insured Idris will also reappear in ur hangar after u've lost it.

So I don't get the point on that.

CR already said that it will b possible to re-ID a stolen ship, though it's gonna be almost as expensive as buying that ship at a store.

But I do agree that CIG needs some ingame mechanics to make it impossible to "board" ships the way u've described.

[Reavern]

Because if you have a personal 1000$+ fleet, it's the few extra UEC for insurance that's going to break the bank? 

 

Firstly, it's not going to be a "few extra UECs" for SHI.  Considering that the cheapest weapon in the Voyager Direct Store is 4,000 UECs, I predict that "easily affordable" SHI will cost several thousand UECs per ship per month. Multiply by 10 ships, 3,000 UECs turns into 30,000 UECs.

 

 

My point was that thhe amount of UECs that the average player can earn each month probably won't be affected by the number of ships they own. Probably.

 

For example: Player A owns a Starfarer and spends the majority of his play-time mining hydrogen and selling it as fuel to players to earn UECs. Player B owns 10 ships, but uses his Starfarer the majority of the time to mine and sell hydrogen fuel. If both Player A and Player B spend roughly the same amount of play-time running fuel ops in their Starfarers, they should earn roughly the same amount of UECs per month.

 

However, if Player B doesn't have LTI on his 10 ships, the monthly cost of SHI would be 10 times greater than Player A's lone Starfarer, which would mean that Player A will make more net income after expenses than Player B.

 

 

This is why I think the people who dismiss LTI as insignificant are deluded. Regardless of how minimal monthly SHI will cost, it's not nuthin' -- which is what LTI ship owners will pay for their ships' hull insurance. Paying zero is better than paying anything.

 

There's a reason why I haven't bought a new ship since LTI ended in November. And it's only partly because CIG hasn't offered any new ships since the Anniversary Sale. If CIG offered the Banu Merchantman again with LTI for $250, I'd definitely buy it. If no LTI for $250, I might. But I'll never buy a BMM with LTI on the grey market for $400+.

[Swiftsure]

This is why I think the people who dismiss LTI as insignificant are deluded. Regardless of how minimal monthly SHI will cost, it's not nothin' -- which is what LTI ship owners will pay for their ships' hull insurance. Paying zero is better than paying anything.

 

Then tell Roberts, he's the one telling us it's insignificant, and only a convenience.  

 

But I was talking more about the grey market. Obviously LTI is nice and all, I just want to make clear it is not worth paying extra bucks for.  

[Reavern]

Then tell Roberts, he's the one telling us it's insignificant, and only a convenience.

 

CR has to say that LTI is insignificant to convince new backers it's worthwhile to buy ships without LTI. He's said that all along: "It's just a convenience."

 

However, CR knew exactly what he was doing when he offered LTI to backers for the first year. He also knew that the LTI deadline in November 2013 would compel backers to buy as many LTI ships as they could before it ended, which was the reason why CIG earned $8 million in funding during the week of the Anniversary Sale.

 

But I was talking more about the grey market. Obviously LTI is nice and all, I just want to make clear it is not worth paying extra bucks for.  

 

I agree 100%. I wouldn't pay extra for LTI, which is why I won't go near the grey market. There are apparently people out there who are willing to pay $400+ for a LTI Banu Merchantman -- but I'm not, regardless of how much a want one.

[Genesis]

[Pyrozr]

If it comes to stealing there is no difference between an LTI ship and a normally insured ship. A traditionally insured Idris will also reappear in ur hangar after u've lost it.

So I don't get the point on that.

CR already said that it will b possible to re-ID a stolen ship, though it's gonna be almost as expensive as buying that ship at a store.

But I do agree that CIG needs some ingame mechanics to make it impossible to "board" ships the way u've described.

 

There is a difference between a LTI and a normally insured ship. That difference is UEC.

 

Your LTI Hull gets "stolen," you get a brand new one for free, every time. If your normally insured ship gets stolen you get the Hull back, but the new Hull wouldn't be insured. Like any normal insurance on an object of high value if it is stolen the Insurance company pays out the claim and the contract is fulfilled. If the contract was replacement of the goods then you get the goods replaced, if it was simply monetary reimbursement then you get the money. Your new hull would need to be insured again, and that costs money.

 

Usually the insurance is some fraction of the cost of the total value, and over time if you never lose it then the insurance company makes money. It would still be possible to do this "stolen" hull scam with normally insured ships but it would cost some credits.

 

CIG could avoid this scam by assigning a risk assessment to each player. This could factor in their criminal history, their number of claims for lost ships, and credit-debt ratio. This would mean that players that were considered "High Risk" would pay much more to insure their ships thereby reducing the profitability of scamming the system. Alternatively a "Low Risk" player that had high security standing, low ship loss rate and no debt would pay less than average for ship insurance.

 

The ship insurance model in EVE works because you can not steal someone else's ship. The claim is only paid out if your ship is destroyed. The fact that you can steal other players ships makes the insurance thing a tricky situation. Many people commit insurance fraud because its fairly easy to pull off and can be quite profitable. If CIG makes their Insurance program simple: pay 1/10th the value, and get a new ship if it is stolen/destroyed - then I can guarantee you without a doubt that there will be fraud, and it will be rampant and game breaking.

[Tiogan]

What I heard is that the bigger the ship...the longer it will take to get replaced even with LTI.

 

For those small 1 seater starter ships it will be much faster since they are mass produced in game.

 

I believed i read this in RSI forum somewhere lol

[Pyrozr]

From everyting I have heard watching WH and 10FTC have stated that hull replacement is instantaneous when your character respawns in your hangar. Could you or anyone provide a reference for this claim of larger ships taking longer to be replaced?

[Swiftsure]

What I heard is that the bigger the ship...the longer it will take to get replaced even with LTI.

 

For those small 1 seater starter ships it will be much faster since they are mass produced in game.

 

I believed i read this in RSI forum somewhere lol

 

LTI is the same as the standard insurance everyone gets, it's just for free.

 

It's a mechanic to make death and meaningful. Not so much for basic 1-seaters, where it's basically instantaneous unless you are suicide ramming over and over.

 

For big shit, mostly capitals, it can be a question of days depending on size and how often you die. Basically so that killing someones capital actually matters on a strategic level. 

 

For medium stuff like Connies and Retaliators we don't know. I'd guess it would be an hour to a few hours depending on how often you've gotten killed over the last few days. But I'm speculating

 

 

 

So basically it's to make us actually fear death, even the ones of us who don't care about our characters, but it is nothing special to LTI. It's the same for everyone. It's been mentioned a few times, but I'll let someone less lazy than myself find a link.

[Ford_Prefect]

There is a difference between a LTI and a normally insured ship. That difference is UEC.

 

Your LTI Hull gets "stolen," you get a brand new one for free, every time. If your normally insured ship gets stolen you get the Hull back, but the new Hull wouldn't be insured. Like any normal insurance on an object of high value if it is stolen the Insurance company pays out the claim and the contract is fulfilled. If the contract was replacement of the goods then you get the goods replaced, if it was simply monetary reimbursement then you get the money. Your new hull would need to be insured again, and that costs money.

 

Usually the insurance is some fraction of the cost of the total value, and over time if you never lose it then the insurance company makes money. It would still be possible to do this "stolen" hull scam with normally insured ships but it would cost some credits.

 

CIG could avoid this scam by assigning a risk assessment to each player. This could factor in their criminal history, their number of claims for lost ships, and credit-debt ratio. This would mean that players that were considered "High Risk" would pay much more to insure their ships thereby reducing the profitability of scamming the system. Alternatively a "Low Risk" player that had high security standing, low ship loss rate and no debt would pay less than average for ship insurance.

 

The ship insurance model in EVE works because you can not steal someone else's ship. The claim is only paid out if your ship is destroyed. The fact that you can steal other players ships makes the insurance thing a tricky situation. Many people commit insurance fraud because its fairly easy to pull off and can be quite profitable. If CIG makes their Insurance program simple: pay 1/10th the value, and get a new ship if it is stolen/destroyed - then I can guarantee you without a doubt that there will be fraud, and it will be rampant and game breaking.

 

I don't know how insurance works in the states but my car/house/personal insurance is for a set period with a deductible if something happens to my car (or other). I don't need to sign a new insurance if my car gets destroyed or stolen, the old insurance will keep rolling within 12 months for my new car as well. The deductible should be the same with LTI or for ordinary insurance. This will also prevent fraudulent behavior for both types. The only difference between LTI and ordinary insurance is that with ordinary insurance I have a set amount of month where as I have to pay for a new period when the old period runs out.

[Pyrozr]

I don't know how insurance works in the states but my car/house/personal insurance is for a set period with a deductible if something happens to my car (or other). I don't need to sign a new insurance if my car gets destroyed or stolen, the old insurance will keep rolling within 12 months for my new car as well. The deductible should be the same with LTI or for ordinary insurance. This will also prevent fraudulent behavior for both types. The only difference between LTI and ordinary insurance is that with ordinary insurance I have a set amount of month where as I have to pay for a new period when the old period runs out.

 Yes, insurance works the same way in 'The States', and some form of the 'normal' insurance model may be implemented by CIG, most of this is pure speculation.

 

I am simply basing my theories on the SC insurance program off of it's closest comparison: EVE Online. The insurance model there is a specialty insurance model that is used for extreme high value and/or irreplaceable items like say the Mona Lisa or the Statue of Liberty.

 

An item is firstly priced out to determine its 'value'. Even though items that are unique can never be replaced and are therefore considered priceless, if you want to insure them you have to have a solid value. Secondly the insurance company sends a team of analysts out to research possible risk factors for the item in question. Using all kinds of complex formulas the insurance company first determines if the object is within acceptable parameters of risk to insure at all. If the object is deemed insurable then based off of its risk factor and value a contract is setup determining how much and how often an individual/company will pay to maintain coverage on that object.

 

In the event of the damage, destruction, or loss of the insured object the contract is executed and the owning individual is paid the specified amount of compensation. If the item is damaged but repairable, the insurance company will send out an adjuster to determine how much it will cost to repair and how much, if any, revenue will be lost in the interim. If the repair cost does not total the value of the object it is repaired and returned to the owner, though they may pay a deductible and/or see a rise in their insurance rate as a result of an increase to their perceived risk factor. The contract would likely continue on as the object still exists and is still owned by the individual/company.

 

However if the item is lost/stolen or completely destroyed(or the costs of repairing the item exceeds its value) then the specified sum of money is paid to the owner and the contract is terminated. Traditionally the 'value' of an object is paid to the owned at the time of its loss, it is up to the owner to find and purchase a suitable replacement if available. After, or if, the object is replaced it would need to be insured again with a completely new contract and a new risk assessment as obviously it may have a higher risk than previously known.

 

From the statements of CR and others, SC intends to simply replace the Hull rather than pay the owner its value. This is desirable for most as a player driven economy would see a regular fluctuation the the prices of different hulls from time to time and place to place. What was bought a month ago for 10,000 UEC might cost 12,000 UEC later and you wouldn't want to be 2,000 UEC short to buy your Hull again. Not to mention that that Hull might not be available at all due to a shortage. The straight Hull replacement policy eliminates these hazards, however it creates new ones as I have described. If you don't force the player to go out into the economy and buy the Hull with UEC then you could potentially create a black market of 'stolen' scam ships that would make it nearly impossible to buy and sell legitimate ships on the open market.

 

Why would I want to pay 100,000 UEC for a Idris from a respectable dealer when I can buy a black market ship for a fraction of the price? Some might say because its the, "right thing to do." If you have ever played EVE you would know that doing the right thing is a quick way to lose money and die. Everyone in EVE is looking to make more money or take money from others, they really don't care much about the consequences, especially if they are only consequences for someone they don't know. It is naive to expect that the players in SC will be all that much better. I am generally a nice person who will help others out, but if I don't know you and feel that I can make money off of you, I am probably going to do it.