Proposing Female Social Group & get a BAN

[1STANCESTOR]

Good idea!

I'd help out however I can.

[Drake123]

I agree, I think a female-only board/TS channel would be a great addition, we had one in my WoW guild, just to provide more options to people. It's the hard-and-fast segregation that irks me

 

edit: Good to read Lesnick's post, makes a lot of sense! Also seeing Lauresh's motives in the OP was good, never really thought how tricky it might be to find other women online 

No... Please No.  Discrimination works both ways.  Putting woman on a pedestal because that have boobs is not cool.

[1STANCESTOR]

Isn't taking action against someone that is attempting to create a gender specific group anti-discrimination?  It would happen to a guy trying to create a male only group.

In the original post, she says that guys are welcome to get involved. Just not in the private sections. That's for girl talk I guess.

[p...]

No... Please No.  Discrimination works both ways.  Putting woman on a pedestal because that have boobs is not cool.

 

Please keep this civil, Drake.

[Voy]

No... Please No.  Discrimination works both ways.  Putting woman on a pedestal because that have boobs is not cool.

 

Who said anything about putting women on a pedestal? In our WoW guild it was simply to keep women-specific topics such as make-up and clothes shopping (not taking the piss these were the actual topics) without having guys 'contributing' to the conversation and derailing them with jokes. It was more a tidiness and mod resource thing than a "give the women a special clubhouse" thing

[Exitre]

No... Please No.  Discrimination works both ways.  Putting woman on a pedestal because that have boobs is not cool.

 

"Discrimination" does not always work both ways -- it depends on the context and power dynamics at play, as Ben Lesnick's post acknowledges.  Without getting too far into it here, this theory of sociology is known as structural violence.

[DasDeimos]

Equality works when both sides stop asking for more rights and simply acknowledge that anyone can do whatever they like as long as they don't mess with another person's right to do the same.

 

 

DasDeimos.

[Drake123]

Equality works when both sides stop asking for more rights and simply acknowledge that anyone can do whatever they like as long as they don't mess with another person's right to do the same.

 

 

DasDeimos.

A male only "club" would get the same response with the same baiting ban.  The difference would be that people would LOL at any request for an apology from the CIG staff.

 

Please keep this civil, Drake.

No offense intended.  Just trying to express that idea equality between the sexes is often very skewed.

 

mod edit: merged doublepost

[Minted]

Another pointlessly blown out of proportion topic I see. Standard internet practise really.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman only fleet, a Muslim only fleet or a Scottish only fleet. Really it all comes down to political correctness.

 

For example if I was to openly advertise a men only or a white only fleet that would seriously raise some eyebrows.

 

Political correctness. Its silly. It wastes time and it has almost no place. Do what you want , just don't hate or hurt.

[p...]

Anyway. There is a more objective article on Gameranx. It keeps it short and makes a more obvious attempt at reporting multiple perspectives.

 

 

Another pointlessly blown out of proportion topic I see. Standard internet practise really.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman only fleet, a Muslim only fleet or a Scottish only fleet. Really it all comes down to political correctness.

 

For example if I was to openly advertise a men only or a white only fleet that would seriously raise some eyebrows.

 

Political correctness. Its silly. It wastes time and it has almost no place. Do what you want , just don't hate or hurt.

 

Minted wins the thread.

[Swiftsure]

Another pointlessly blown out of proportion topic I see. Standard internet practise really.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman only fleet, a Muslim only fleet or a Scottish only fleet. Really it all comes down to political correctness.

 

For example if I was to openly advertise a men only or a white only fleet that would seriously raise some eyebrows.

 

Political correctness. Its silly. It wastes time and it has almost no place. Do what you want , just don't hate or hurt.

 

 

Except no one was asking for special favors. No one was asking for a special org. They were asking for a bloody chat room.

 

You can't just look at the surface, muslim fleet, french fleet, white male fleet, and judge them all the same. You need to look at the reason behind creating it. For example creating a french fleet because you only understand french and can't communicate properly in english, that is legit. If you are creating it because you are a nationalist who hates other countries it's a hate group

 

If women created a social group because they were trying to exclude men, I'd get why people were upset. But the stated reason was that they feel they were being harassed in a male dominated community, and looking at the tread they were immediately harassed for having voiced that they wanted to get away from harassment.

 

 

 

So sure, if you pretend all labels are equal, if you pretend all social contexts are equal, if you pretend women were not getting harassed on the RSI forum, you'd have a point. But the world isn't equal, the world is unfair. Dudes don't get this kind of hate, people don't text us their dicks, and until women are treated the same as we are we shouldn't be all surprised if they feel they need to get away from it all every now and then.

[von Bane]

I agree with Swiftsure. I don't see what's so bad about a social group for women only as long as the purpose is legit. It's not any different than any other social group for a particular item of interest/commonality.

 

And what's with the Goon hate?

[Swiftsure]

 

 

And what's with the Goon hate?

 

 

They trolled the rsi forum a bit, some of them are pretty competitive, and also some goon from some goon sub-group playing EvE said some mean things to some other EvE player a few years ago.

 

So people basically decided they were all space-hitler.

[Puddlemancer]

The fact that she got immediately dogpiled and people are making parody threads mocking that someone would want a safe place pretty much indicates how such a place is required.

I mean, as someone stated above, there's a lot of Non-English groups on SC, and other places, and no one's saying that such actions are discriminatory. 

There's just a fundamental problem where people think that minorities or women wanting to create their own places without interference from others inherently pisses a lot of people off.

[Slammed]

Also, a huge problem with The Mittani is their notoriety for spin-doctoring and fluff pieces. They have a long record of trying to bury this game.

 

Edit: Well, Tallardar does, anyway.

 

What spin was there in the article? I read her piece and screenshots from Reddit and what Ben said. It's a fairly solid repeating/summarization.

 

Not really. TMC has been pretty pro Star Citizen considering they did one of the first interview with Chris Roberts in 2012. They're just not blindly sucking anyone's dick over it. They've treated CIG the same way they treat the EVE devs and other developers, they'll call them out on shit that deserves to be called out on. They talked about how the Grey Market was bad for the community, and CIG eventually realized they were right. CCP were blasted for having a shitty FPS game on a dead console, and look at what is happening with Project Legion. They're being honest and critical while being constructive. There's nothing in that or any previous piece that is trying to "bury" Star Citizen. Seriously, get over yourself especially considering Tallardar also backs the project, he's justified in being cautiously optimistic just as anyone should be.

[von Bane]

That's pretty unfair. So if someone from Imperium is an asshat, we are all asshats.

[Puddlemancer]

They're just not blindly sucking anyone's dick over it. They've treated CIG the same way they treat the EVE devs and other developers, they'll call them out on shit that deserves to be called out on. They talked about how the Grey Market was bad for the community, and CIG eventually realized they were right. CCP were blasted for having a shitty FPS game on a dead console, and look at what is happening with Project Legion.

I get most of my SC news from skimming this forum and the RSI forums but the Mittani site seems to be pretty good.  I actually like the cynicism, since keeping a foot planted on the ground is important for a project as grandiose as SC

[Slammed]

I get most of my SC news from skimming this forum and the RSI forums but the Mittani site seems to be pretty good.  I actually like the cynicism, since keeping a foot planted on the ground is important for a project as grandiose as SC

 

Pretty much this. I find it hilarious people are so offended that they don't suck up to CIG over stuff and are more willing to be honest with how people view things. Cynicism is a good trait to have, especially when you're a consumer.

[Minted]

Except no one was asking for special favors. No one was asking for a special org. They were asking for a bloody chat room.

 

You can't just look at the surface, muslim fleet, french fleet, white male fleet, and judge them all the same. You need to look at the reason behind creating it. For example creating a french fleet because you only understand french and can't communicate properly in english, that is legit. If you are creating it because you are a nationalist who hates other countries it's a hate group

 

If women created a social group because they were trying to exclude men, I'd get why people were upset. But the stated reason was that they feel they were being harassed in a male dominated community, and looking at the tread they were immediately harassed for having voiced that they wanted to get away from harassment.

 

 

 

So sure, if you pretend all labels are equal, if you pretend all social contexts are equal, if you pretend women were not getting harassed on the RSI forum, you'd have a point. But the world isn't equal, the world is unfair. Dudes don't get this kind of hate, people don't text us their dicks, and until women are treated the same as we are we shouldn't be all surprised if they feel they need to get away from it all every now and then.

 

Please see my final sentence.

 

Do what you want , just don't hate or hurt.

 

I agree there may well be perfectly viable reasons for a women's only area/fleet etc. I never said otherwise.

[Drake123]

That's pretty unfair. So if someone from Imperium is an asshat, we are all asshats.

To a degree..yes.  The actions of one of us effects the way are all perceived.  That's why we have an HR department and code of conduct.

[p...]

What spin was there in the article? I read her piece and screenshots from Reddit and what Ben said. It's a fairly solid repeating/summarization.

 

Not really. TMC has been pretty pro Star Citizen considering they did one of the first interview with Chris Roberts in 2012. They're just not blindly sucking anyone's dick over it. They've treated CIG the same way they treat the EVE devs and other developers, they'll call them out on shit that deserves to be called out on. They talked about how the Grey Market was bad for the community, and CIG eventually realized they were right. CCP were blasted for having a shitty FPS game on a dead console, and look at what is happening with Project Legion. They're being honest and critical while being constructive. There's nothing in that or any previous piece that is trying to "bury" Star Citizen. Seriously, get over yourself especially considering Tallardar also backs the project, he's justified in being cautiously optimistic just as anyone should be.

 

Sounds like you know more about it than me. I am still a bit perturbed over their handling of the Gianturco thing with him calling for a player's IRL suicide a few years ago. That may be slanting my opinion of the entire organization, but I can accept that they're not all like that.

[Slammed]

Sounds like you know more about it than me. I am still a bit perturbed over their handling of the Gianturco thing with him calling for a player's IRL suicide a few years ago. That may be slanting my opinion of the entire organization, but I can accept that they're not all like that.

 

Considering he was heavily inebriated (in the full video of the presentations you see them doing multiple shots of jaeger bombs and Fanfest itself is a week of drunken festivities) and ultimately apologized and made ammends by stepping down from CSM, giving all his in-game money to the tune of $300 or so and accepting a 30-day ban from CCP for violating his agreement in regards to his CSM duties, I'm pretty positive you're only looking at what fits your world view.

[Puddlemancer]

I could see how someone might know of the initial incident but not be aware of what happens after it, which is just proof of people needing to be more cautious about disregarding entire groups based on perceived actions

Like on the forums now everyone is saying Lauresh is a goon and thus can't be trusted, even Ben Lesnick is indicating he thinks it's all a set up instigated by that clan

It's sort of dumb

[von Bane]

To a degree..yes.  The actions of one of us effects the way are all perceived.  That's why we have an HR department and code of conduct.

Yeah I get that, nothing new to me as an Asian American. People assume that I'm super smart, know how to fight like Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan, and many other stereotypes.

 

Any gaming clan/guild/community worth their salt should have a CoC. Although I was quite surprised to see an HR dept and even more so a Media dept as those are not common.

[LightMonk]

What spin was there in the article? I read her piece and screenshots from Reddit and what Ben said. It's a fairly solid repeating/summarization.

 

Not really. TMC has been pretty pro Star Citizen considering they did one of the first interview with Chris Roberts in 2012. They're just not blindly sucking anyone's dick over it. They've treated CIG the same way they treat the EVE devs and other developers, they'll call them out on shit that deserves to be called out on. They talked about how the Grey Market was bad for the community, and CIG eventually realized they were right. CCP were blasted for having a shitty FPS game on a dead console, and look at what is happening with Project Legion. They're being honest and critical while being constructive. There's nothing in that or any previous piece that is trying to "bury" Star Citizen. Seriously, get over yourself especially considering Tallardar also backs the project, he's justified in being cautiously optimistic just as anyone should be.

 

Yay, first time I see someone else with some reason on this forum for a while. 

Less fanboyish thinking, more constructive criticism.