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The recent ship matrix has a lot of interesting things concerning the hornets. For the first time they will have hard point differences. For example a hornet F7C has a canard turret with two size ones (as normal), the F7CM has a canard  turret with two size two guns, and the F7A has a canard turret with two size 3s. The f7a may be a bit of wild card (maybe not though) but, it looks like the hornet series have a lot of depth and variation to them.

Imagine a starting player buying a F7C new, as an upgrade from his mustang delta.  He could upgrade the cockpit module perhaps by itself to gain access to the better canard capability, or maybe when he has the spare cash, some wings with some better mounts.  these cockpits and wings share the similar geometry and animations and can be attached together to make custom varients.

This sounds great, to me. The upside of course is that if it is not what they intend (and variant hardpoints can not be changed somehow) ...then those F7A upgrades...are going to be awesome.  Awesome. 4 size 4s and 2 size 3s. hey maybe 8 size 3 missiles (thanks to the new missle bay!). Yikes.

It sounds like a great day for hornet owners.

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23 minutes ago, Scotterius said:

It sounds like a great day for hornet owners.

Great observation and actually a great week for everyone.   CR mentioned during CitizenCon 2017 that there will be a re-balancing of all ships and what you picked up on is a small sliver of this overall re-balance.   I noticed that one of my favorite ships the Xi'an Scout (the Khartu-Al) has the fasted SCM out of the small ships other than the 350r and M50 and that its max Pitch / Yaw / etc.... is still an unknown - showing that previously the ship didn't match up to what CIG had intended for the ship.

I also think it is great to differentiate the starting load out even between hornets as you observed the canard turrets / weapons on the F7C vs F7CM.   Again nice find

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7 hours ago, Scotterius said:

The recent ship matrix has a lot of interesting things concerning the hornets. For the first time they will have hard point differences. For example a hornet F7C has a canard turret with two size ones (as normal), the F7CM has a canard  turret with two size two guns, and the F7A has a canard turret with two size 3s. The f7a may be a bit of wild card (maybe not though) but, it looks like the hornet series have a lot of depth and variation to them.

Imagine a starting player buying a F7C new, as an upgrade from his mustang delta.  He could upgrade the cockpit module perhaps by itself to gain access to the better canard capability, or maybe when he has the spare cash, some wings with some better mounts.  these cockpits and wings share the similar geometry and animations and can be attached together to make custom varients.

This sounds great, to me. The upside of course is that if it is not what they intend (and variant hardpoints can not be changed somehow) ...then those F7A upgrades...are going to be awesome.  Awesome. 4 size 4s and 2 size 3s. hey maybe 8 size 3 missiles (thanks to the new missle bay!). Yikes.

It sounds like a great day for hornet owners.

I agree with a lot of this, but I don't see F7A Upgrades really being found around that much. As far as I can tell, CIG needs to make sure that at least some AI pilots can wreck like 90% of the player base. The F7A upgrades stops players from shrugging off UEE response, making them a proper threat. I also think this is where the glades upgrade is from (also the fact that they need to balance gladius vs Buccaneer). While the F7A is no F8, it still provides a healthy advantage for the UEE that put the civilian armaments in perspective (I expect the UEE Capital ships (Javelin, Idris, Polaris)  to be up gunned from our versions as well). 

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Forgive me if I sound ignorant. Years ago I picked up the F7C and I didn't realize there was an F7C-M  (or maybe there wasn't at the time).  I guess I'm worried that the F7C isn't as good as the F7C-M for general dogfighting.  I've read things about the F7C-M having better shields (quad?), more armor, a 2nd seat, etc) and things like "quad shields" sound great but the F7C doesn't have them?  Am I going to be disappointed by my civi Hornet?  

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9 hours ago, IronFoxide said:

Forgive me if I sound ignorant. Years ago I picked up the F7C and I didn't realize there was an F7C-M  (or maybe there wasn't at the time).  I guess I'm worried that the F7C isn't as good as the F7C-M for general dogfighting.  I've read things about the F7C-M having better shields (quad?), more armor, a 2nd seat, etc) and things like "quad shields" sound great but the F7C doesn't have them?  Am I going to be disappointed by my civi Hornet?  

Hey, Welcome back. The question about your hornet seems objective on the surface, I would argue it is more emotional than you think. I have a short and a long answer for you.

Short answer:

Yes, you will be disappointed. You will see other hornets with load outs you covet, they will fly circles around you and kill ships much faster. Light fighters will block your missile shots, steal kills and chase you away or kill you with impunity.

Long answer: 

Its about love. 

The F7C is a great ship. It has a great potential loadout, it flies better than the superhornet and will likely be able to upgraded piecemeal to milspec awesomeness. You have a little farther to upgrade it than the F7CM, but that is a lot of the fun. I have heard very, very good players talk about the F7 series.  They favor the F7CM unanimously unless playing casually.  The simple reason is that the armor on it is the best in the game and a great nullifier for ballistic weapons.  They compensate for the lack of maneuverability with excellent g force control ( This is not easy, takes lots of practice) and getting really close and aggressive. With enough practice you can keep even the light fighters in front of you. Another great thing about the hornet series is that it has great boost regeneration, and great jerk values (this is how fast you change direction when strafing). It moves great, in strafing it is practically indistinguishable from the saber with more hit points and guns. But, let me assure you this takes real skill. Expect to invest dozens of hours. There are very nice people in Imperium that can help you.

I love the hornet. I love its boxy look, its mass, I love making it move faster than it should while I cringe on the edge of blacking out, I love its history, and its personality.  When RSI releases a ship I think is lame, I buy one just for support. I currently have 6 but I have likely bought and melted around a dozen. Throughout the reiterations of patches and ship changes and flight model tweaks I have spent a lot of time flying the gladius, the sabre, the buccaneer and the hornet.  In my opinion, the hornet (super hornet in particular) is the gold standard that RSI balances other fighters to. 

If you fall in love with star citizen, and play, play, play...I don't think the hornet will ever let you down. The F7CM is almost a red herring at that point, but it will be on sale again on the anniversary sale coming up. The long answer is that your fine, and you should take your baby out of her hanger more often.

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OK.  First, I appreciate the time you took to address my worry. Thank you. Both answers are good and made sense.  After reading all of that I think that it may not be such a big deal after all, as I won't have the twitch skills to keep up with the best dog fighters no matter what ship I am in.  I guess that brings peace of mind in a grim sort of way.

That said, I love the idea of Escorts and patrols.  I have this thought that I'd like to be a dogfighting ship that escorts cargo ships or miners to/from their sites. I always thought of the F7C as being a good escort ship but after looking at some of the 'faster' ships for sale - I'm beginning to get....  overwhelmed with new ideas.   

Short question: F7C good escort ship?  If not what is just one example of a better ship?

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We will know soon, with 3.0 for sure. I imagine its fine. If I was escorting and I could take any ship, I would consider the buccaneer. This is because they are faster, a little better at interdiction, and almost hit as hard.  They would also be more fun to fool around in, while you go through the long runs.  Since you are afraid they will shoot your convoy, vs you, the fragile nature of the light fighter is less of a disadvantage. ( You should rent this one and play with it, perhaps).

But, *I* would take a hornet to almost anything, because I am comfortable with them. But I would be wary in particular of light fighters in the hands of more experienced pilots.

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I have a F7C that I was looking at melting to upgrade to a F7C-M. After that lengthy explanation post, I am considering it very highly.

I do have an issue with the Hornet cockpit in that I can't really read it that well. If there are any more experienced Hornet pilots who want to show me around, I would love some practice. I need to sharpen my dogfighting skills in SC. 

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