Malak Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 This is directed towards people who use HOTAS setups. Specifically having their left hand on a throttle control and their right hand on a joystick to steer. Wouldn't it be better to have a regular 360 degree joystick in your left hand controlling the ship? If you are using your left hand for throttle and right hand to direct your ship, then you're putting yourself at a disadvantage to people who steer with their left hand(keyboard/joystick) and aim with their right(mouse/joystick). The player using the HOTAS won't be able to steer and aim their ship as accurately as a player who doesn't restrict his left hand to just throttle. EDIT:Revised Question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormathon Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The guy that flies his ship with a keyboard will probably have to enter 3x the amount of commands to just fly on a different axis, especially if he wants to pitch/yaw and change speed at the same time etc. Compared to just a snap with the wrist on the joystick and a quick touch on the throttle with a hotas setup. Napoleon, Gremlich and Alex 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malak Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 The keyboard can control directional movement(strafe?) and throttle with just the left hand. The mouse would cover where the ship is pointing and where to aim the weapons. Kinda like freelancer or Star Conflict. So someone with a keyboard and mouse would still be at an advantage. The person with the hotas is still limiting their entire left hand to just throttle control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperalpha Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 When the keyboard commands come out I am going to set up my warthog. The plan (right now) is to use the throttles for the mail engines, left and right sides, and a hat switch on the throttle for the directional thrusters. All of this is subjective right now. Alex-Cobra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malak Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 The plan (right now) is to use the throttles for the mail engines, left and right sides, and a hat switch on the throttle for the directional thrusters. All of this is subjective right now. So you plan on controlling your ship and throttle by switching between, controlling them with a button? And I disagree, I think we can use current space sims flight models, what chris has said so far, and the dogfighting module to determine the best possible setups for Star Citizen. I want to know how a HOTAS setup would prove to be useful against traditional joysticks, keyboards, and mice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberianK Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The keyboard can control directional movement(strafe?) and throttle with just the left hand. ... The person with the hotas is still limiting their entire left hand to just throttle control. It is not just the throttle: No problem putting strafe on the thumb hat. You also have enough buttons and other controls so You are right on the mouse aiming thing though. A mouse will always be at an advantage with that. But if SC isn't only about point and shoot we will have to see how big that advantage will be in the end and if the Joystick can keep up due to other advantages. Atm I expect the mouse to be superiour for some ships and Hotas for others. Generally the more maneuverably and more fixed weapons the ship the better the Stick, else probably Mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malak Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 @CyberianK Wouldn't a regular joystick be better instead of the throttle control? I wouldn't want to fly my ship with the warthog throttle. Here's a picture of what I'm trying to say would be an ideal setup over a hotas. http://imgur.com/NQbAdZ9 also...how to embed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeus Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 It is not just the throttle: No problem putting strafe on the thumb hat. You also have enough buttons and other controls so You are right on the mouse aiming thing though. A mouse will always be at an advantage with that. But if SC isn't only about point and shoot we will have to see how big that advantage will be in the end and if the Joystick can keep up due to other advantages. Atm I expect the mouse to be superiour for some ships and Hotas for others. Generally the more maneuverably and more fixed weapons the ship the better the Stick, else probably Mouse. The only thing I don't like about these throttle controls is they look very uncomfortable for the wrist. I don't know which joysticks the OP is using but my cheap ass logitech extreme 3d pro can do strafing with the twist of the joystick left or right. I use it rather extensively in helicopter piloting and it works fine. You have bank left/ right and rotatory left and right with a chopper I don't see much difference in 3 dimensional space, turn left, right, up down, move left and right. The second throttle on the HOTAS throttles pictued above can be your Move up and down while the right one can be your main throttle control. Seems pretty feasable to me. I just want to find one that looks comfortable without a ton of extra switches and buttons for cool factor that don't seem really needed, or easy to access while holding the throttle. Napoleon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberianK Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The only thing I don't like about these throttle controls is they look very uncomfortable for the wrist. You could use a towel and place it below your lower arm or on the lower side of the Hotas. Leon and Zion Orion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nubarus Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Malak, if you mean that you aim the weapons to other directions with a mouse you seriously need to think about some other divices for this purpose like TrackIR and the Occulus Rift where you aim your weapons with head movement like in a Apache Helicopter. So flying with a HOTAS + TrackIR/Occulus Rift you will get cramps in you're wrist before I get cramps in my neck in a serious combat situation. jobbyroby, Auzten and Reavern 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 The weapons for most ships fire forward, so steering the ship and aiming are the same thing. I can setup my X-55 Rhino HOTAS with multiple control schemes and switch between them using the mode selector. The default control scheme will be flying and aiming with the flight stick and POV HAT, and throttle and manual thruster control on the throttle. The second control scheme could be set to fly using one of the throttle's thumb HATs, and aim weapons using the flight stick. I intend to use the default control scheme for flying around, because it's more natural -- because that's how fighters operate IRL. For dogfighting, I'll switch to the secondary control scheme for the initial "skirmish phase" when I'm hunting for a target, so I can aim and fire my Super Hornet's ball turret at any enemies I see. Finally, once I've zeroed in on a target and latched onto their tail, I'll switch back to default so I can bring all of my weapons to bear and blast the enemy ship to atoms. Of course, I'll also have my keyboard and mouse in front of me on my desk, so IF the mouse proves superior for aiming, I can switch to it at any second. But I would never want to fly using the flight stick in my left hand. NEVER! Firstly, most flight sticks are designed for right hands, so using the left hand isn't an option. Second, I'm used to controlling movement with a left thumb stick from years of console gaming, but using a flight stick with my left hand is altogether different, and I'd never get used to it. Napoleon and Nubarus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeus Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 You could use a towel and place it below your lower arm or on the lower side of the Hotas. I really should have seen that one coming.... Leon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlich Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I'll be using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (Right hand) with a Razer Nostromo (left hand). I think this will represent the middle of the road control config. I don't have a ship that has a turret/canard turret or multiple engines, that's why my ideas are what you will see below. X (yaw)-Y (pitch)-Z (roll) axes on the JS and I can use the hat switch for specific thruster usage(maybe for thrusters push left/right (slide/crab) and thrusters push up/down). It also has 6 buttons on the stick, 3 of which will be for weapons (1,2, 3), the other 3 (4, 5, 6) can do other things. I doubt I'll use 7-12 for anything and I can over ride the throttle slider. Left hand with the Nostromo will be the throttle, for me, using the D-pad (full power (W), 65% fwd thrust (D), power off/stop (A), and main thrust off/full power reverse thrusters (S)) and the rest of buttons for whatever commands (map, radar, navigation, comms, etc...). (successors to the Nostromo are the Razer Orbweaver (2 models) and Tartarus) and there is the Logi G13 (without a d-pad) I'm thinking KB/M may not be as ideal as some people think, despite how comfortable and skilled they might be using those devices. Maybe with pedals it will be a decent config, but alone, I think it will be limited. Watch the hornet "Let's do this" video and see what you can think up for control configs. That's what I did. (I did NOT pick the music) Hornet leaves the hanger at 0:54 secs. The 300 series is also towards the end of the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malak Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 http://youtu.be/Rez7Hy_BfPY?t=13m30s In the top right screen you can see a couple times all weapons follow some sort of reticle that you can control. So how is a hotas setup going to out play a mouse and/or joystick? Pushing aside guns that are hard mounted and don't move. How will having a throttle control from the hotas give any kind of advantage in space combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaseen Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 This is why ships like super hornet with a two seat configuration will be a serious ennemy to take care of, the pilot can fly with a hotas setup and logistic pilot can shoot with his mouse. It will be very effective I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malak Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 This is why ships like super hornet with a two seat configuration will be a serious ennemy to take care of, the pilot can fly with a hotas setup and logistic pilot can shoot with his mouse. It will be very effective I guess. Shooting moving targets, moving on something, that's already moving, sounds hard. I don't think it will be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaseen Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Combine both best options and you'll get what I want to tell about the super hornet, moving with hotas and shooting with mouse (like in the video). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nubarus Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I just asked on the RSI forum and weapons on pilons can be moved with TrackIR and Occulus Rift so no need to aim with the mouse, just use head tracking to aim your weapons in combat, much much easier then with a mouse or POV hat. Chemicalgibbon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhane Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Not everyone is motivated by what is the absolute "best" setup - not that I believe there is a best setup, it's whatever works best for you - but many players prioritize enjoying their experience over maximizing potential. If a HOTAS setup "feels" great to you, you enjoy the way it functions, then for many people that's the important part. Enjoyment in gaming? Psh, unpossible. Chaos and Zion Orion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormathon Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I just asked on the RSI forum and weapons on pilons can be moved with TrackIR and Occulus Rift so no need to aim with the mouse, just use head tracking to aim your weapons in combat, much much easier then with a mouse or POV hat. Since that is confirmed , HOTAS with occulus rift = godmode pretty much. Give's a whole new meaning to "death stare" :3 Reavern, Dr. Argon, BladeNZ and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nubarus Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Better train those neck muscles before the game comes out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valenquo Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Actually the OR is supposed to be as heavy as ski goggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntau Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826102073 https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/ I intend on using these two devices in tandem to alleviate the issues discussed with having limited use of the left hand while controlling throttle functions. The following video link shows how they will function together, very cool stuff! http://video.newegg.com/v/1238707324/mad-catz-x-55-scb432150002021-saitek-pro-flight-rhino-h-o-t-a-s-hands-on-throttle-and-stick-system-for-pc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nubarus Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 It was about training to keep your neck in a natural position and not lock it up like many people do who use a system like TrackIR for the first time. (Will be the same for the OR) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenatharax Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I will not be buying a joystick or anysort of set up for SC, I am perfectly fine with a mouse and keyboard. If for some ungodly reason they seriously nerf the keyboard and mouse controls, I will not be playing for long. I want to play a game in a way I feel comfortable, I don't want to be forced into controls I don't like. The only other control input I will use is the the thumb stick on my G13 but thats only if I feel I need to use it. I would also like to point out I own a Saitek Cyborg 3D joystick, I played a lot of CFS3 with it and well I still hate the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now