VoA Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Honestly, I've always thought the idea of 'limited' digital products to be a bit silly. I've heard their excuse for not selling more limited ships like the Idris or Scythe but I don't really buy it. Here's hoping the 890 will not be sold in only limited numbers.Remember that "limited" edition ships only apply to early backers (when a ship is available to pledge for). All ships will be available in the PU (some will be harder and more expensive to get). Some ships you can only attain through salvage, like the Vanduul Scythe - that's a reason to join Eclipse or Crimson Talons squadrons since both will make constant incursions into Vanduul space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exitre Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I doubt that CIG will overcharge for the 890 Jump, because they're smart enough to know that they make more money on volume than on high prices. The Idris-M cost $1000, and CIG sold at least 100 of them. That's $100,000. BFD! That's nothing. That's the equivalent to a few average days of Star Citizen's on-going crowdfunding efforts. There are ~300 Idris-P's out there, priced $1250. That's $375,000. Again, that's insignificant compared to the revenue that the 300i, Hornet, and Freelancer have each generated during the first week that their brochures were released, which was over $2 million for each ship. The vast majority of backers own the Aurora or 300i, the two least expensive ships. However, those 2 ships probably account for at least 30% of Star Citizen's $48 million funding (and counting). My point is that if CIG prices the 890 Jump too high, then very few people will buy it. If CIG prices the 890 Jump at $750, and 1000 backers buy it, that's $750,000. Not bad. However, if CIG prices the 890 Jump at $300, and 5000 backers buy it, that's $1,500,000. Twice as much! Considering that the Banu Merchantman is 100 metres long, weighs 800 tons, hauls 6000 freight units, and only cost $250, I doubt that CIG will charge much more for the 890 Jump. I predict that it'll be $300. The extra $50 compared to the Merchantman is purely for the "luxury" status. All valid points, but there's an underlying assumption that maximizing pledge dollars is CIG's overriding goal with all their ships. Prima facie, this is reasonable -- they are a business after all -- yet, your own point about the limited number of Idrises sold indicates that CIG has competing interests when releasing ships. They have to consider issues of balance and the aesthetic they hope to craft in the universe. The value of a vanity ship like the 890 Jump is directly proportional to its rarity and prestige. IRL, this applies to cars, watches, handbags, and similar "luxury" items. That is why I anticipate CIG will price the 890 Jump in a manner reflective of its intended prestigious niche, rather than a linear extrapolation of its specs compared to other ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeyfeast Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I doubt that CIG will overcharge for the 890 Jump, because they're smart enough to know that they make more money on volume than on high prices. The Idris-M cost $1000, and CIG sold at least 100 of them. That's $100,000. BFD! That's nothing. That's the equivalent to a few average days of Star Citizen's on-going crowdfunding efforts. There are ~300 Idris-P's out there, priced $1250. That's $375,000. Again, that's insignificant compared to the revenue that the 300i, Hornet, and Freelancer have each generated during the first week that their brochures were released, which was over $2 million for each ship. The vast majority of backers own the Aurora or 300i, the two least expensive ships. However, those 2 ships probably account for at least 30% of Star Citizen's $48 million funding (and counting). My point is that if CIG prices the 890 Jump too high, then very few people will buy it. If CIG prices the 890 Jump at $750, and 1000 backers buy it, that's $750,000. Not bad. However, if CIG prices the 890 Jump at $300, and 5000 backers buy it, that's $1,500,000. Twice as much! Considering that the Banu Merchantman is 100 metres long, weighs 800 tons, hauls 6000 freight units, and only cost $250, I doubt that CIG will charge much more for the 890 Jump. I predict that it'll be $300. The extra $50 compared to the Merchantman is purely for the "luxury" status. @Exitre alluded to the idea that crossed my mind - exclusivity. I'm curious if CIG is looking to fundraise through the sale of the 890 Jump, or if they want to go more immersion-focused and make the 890 Jump a high-cost and more rare ship. Doesn't exactly help to establish it as an elite, high-end, luxury ship if every 1 out of every 10 people in the Verse owns one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 All valid points, but there's an underlying assumption that maximizing pledge dollars is CIG's overriding goal with all their ships. Prima facie, this is reasonable -- they are a business after all -- yet, your own point about the limited number of Idrises sold indicates that CIG has competing interests when releasing ships. They have to consider issues of balance and the aesthetic they hope to craft in the universe. The value of a vanity ship like the 890 Jump is directly proportional to its rarity and prestige. IRL, this applies to cars, watches, handbags, and similar "luxury" items. That is why I anticipate CIG will price the 890 Jump in a manner reflective of its intended prestigious niche, rather than a linear extrapolation of its specs compared to other ships. The flaw in the logic that CIG will over-price the 890 Jump just so fewer backers can afford to buy it, thereby making it more rare and prestigious to own, is that it will be recognized by the SC community as a poor value for its specs and high price, and only backers with more money than brains will buy it. (I'll definitely do my part to promote that negative perception of a $750+ 890 Jump. ) The majority of people will simply wait and buy it in-game -- which I know most players will do anyway. As I stated earlier, I guesstimate that there are only a few thousand backers who would be willing to spend $300 on a luxury star-yacht, and maybe 1000 willing to spend $750. That's 1000-5000 people with 890 Jumps in a game community of 500,000+. We're literally talking about 1-percenters! So even if 5000 backers buy $300 890 Jumps, the star-yacht will be considered a rare luxury ship and prestigious to own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exitre Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The flaw in the logic that CIG will over-price the 890 Jump just so fewer backers can afford to buy it, thereby making it more rare and prestigious to own, is that it will be recognized by the SC community as a poor value for its specs and high price, and only backers with more money than brains will buy it. The_Promethean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 VoA found a quote from Sandi that the Constellation variant upgrades will be priced $25, $50, and $75, and the Luxury Model will be the most expensive variant. Add the LX upgrade to the $225 Constellation and the Luxury Constellation is $300. I believe that means that the 890 Jump luxury star-yacht will be priced $300 at the absolute minimum. Considering that the 890 Jump's specs are superior to the Connie's in most respects (including 6 x TR6 engines instead of 4), there's no way that it could be less than a Luxury Connie. If CIG keeps the 890 Jump's price at a reasonable level, I think it'll be $400. If the 890 Jump looks good and its specs are impressive, I'd be willing to spend $400 on it. However, if the price is inflated above $500, there's no way. I'll just buy it in-game -- or I'll find a bounty on a Pirate who stole an 890 Jump and recover the ship. VoA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaznAzn Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I believe that means that the 890 Jump luxury star-yacht will be priced $300 at the absolute minimum. Considering that the 890 Jump's specs are superior to the Connie's in most respects (including 6 x TR6 engines instead of 4), there's no way that it could be less than a Luxury Connie. Stat-wise I think the Connie is superior in every respect. The Connie carries more cargo, Connie has a slightly better Main Thruster to Mass ratio, the Connie also has a slightly better Manoeuvring Thruster to Mass ratio, both have the same max Power Plant size and max Shield Size. Can't really compare hardpoints as the 890 Jump's are still TBD. Of course all of this can change, especially once the Connie hits DFM and the 890 Jump reaches the hangar. But if manoeuvrability is related to the mass/thruster ratio than I'd say the Connie is the superior all-around choice. Mind you the stats page is a pretty shaky way to compare anything at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Jen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Remember that "limited" edition ships only apply to early backers (when a ship is available to pledge for). All ships will be available in the PU (some will be harder and more expensive to get). Some ships you can only attain through salvage, like the Vanduul Scythe - that's a reason to join Eclipse or Crimson Talons squadrons since both will make constant incursions into Vanduul space VoA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Stat-wise I think the Connie is superior in every respect. The Connie carries more cargo, Connie has a slightly better Main Thruster to Mass ratio, the Connie also has a slightly better Manoeuvring Thruster to Mass ratio, both have the same max Power Plant size and max Shield Size. Can't really compare hardpoints as the 890 Jump's are still TBD. Of course all of this can change, especially once the Connie hits DFM and the 890 Jump reaches the hangar. But if manoeuvrability is related to the mass/thruster ratio than I'd say the Connie is the superior all-around choice. Mind you the stats page is a pretty shaky way to compare anything at the end of the day. In terms of function and versatility, I'd agree that the Constellation is the greater value ship. However, this is about luxury. You're comparing the base model multi-role Constellation to the 890 Jump luxury star-yacht, when you should be comparing the Constellation Luxury model to the 890 Jump. The 890 Jump is larger and has a more spacious interior than the Luxury Connie. The 890 Jump's description refers to multiple decks with panoramic windows, whereas the Constellation is a single deck ship, and is somewhat cramped. Comparing the Thrust to Mass ratio is irrelevant in regards to price, because the fact is that the 890 Jump has 6 x TR6 engines and 12 x TR3 maneuvering thrusters compared to the Connie's 4 x TR6s and 8 x TR3s, respectively; which means that the 890 Jump's engines and thrusters contribute more to its price. These concept art pics of the Luxury Connie show that its cargo hold has been replaced by a entertainment lounge with a big screen holo-screen, comfy couches, a dining table, and mini-bar. The Luxury Connie has virtually 0 cargo capacity -- whereas the 890 Jump supposedly has 400 freight units. As you said, the power plant size and shields are identical, and we can't compare the weapon hardpoints because there's no info on the 890's weapons. Also, the Luxury Connie's weapons will be different than the base model; the skylight probably means that it doesn't have the two dorsal missile bays. The Luxury Connie will be priced $300, and the 890 Jump is clearly the superior luxury ship, which means that it will definitely be higher priced. The description of the 890 Jump states that it has "an array of high quality upgrade options". I expect that the price for a base model 890 Jump will be $300 minimum, and a fully upgraded "ultra-luxury" model will be in excess of $400. Whether you believe the 890 Jump is worth that amount of money, or that the Constellation is a greater value ship, is entirely subjective. VoA and stellatenebrae 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaznAzn Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 @Reavern I misinterpreted the specs comment to be one of performance and not of value. I didn't take into consideration the actual value of the additional engines and thrusters would have and how that would affect pricing, you're absolutely right on that point. But yes, when it comes to the pricing of the 890 Jump, I fully expect that it will be rather expensive and not for it's performance but almost totally based on luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoA Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ya... ya... droooollll.... The Scythe is the "only" ship that will never be on sale again (so we'll need to get it from Salvage unless we were an early backer like yourself - or through the grey market) ---- according to Ben. Ben also mentioned that the Idris will no longer be on sale by RSI but that's not true - you can get it now in a $5k package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Promethean Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ya... ya... droooollll.... The Scythe is the "only" ship that will never be on sale again (so we'll need to get it from Salvage unless we were an early backer like yourself - or through the grey market) ---- according to Ben. Ben also mentioned that the Idris will no longer be on sale by RSI but that's not true - you can get it now in a $5k package. when PU is out i'm sure there are other players that will be selling the scythe for UEC. i bet eclipse is going to have alot of them to sell down the line if they are indeed going to be rampaging in vanduul space. Reavern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Jen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ya... ya... droooollll.... The Scythe is the "only" ship that will never be on sale again (so we'll need to get it from Salvage unless we were an early backer like yourself - or through the grey market) ---- according to Ben. Ben also mentioned that the Idris will no longer be on sale by RSI but that's not true - you can get it now in a $5k package. You can still buy The Completionist pack. You email Chelesa in Concierge and she adds the token to your account. VoA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoA Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 when PU is out i'm sure there are other players that will be selling the scythe for UEC. i bet eclipse is going to have alot of them to sell down the line if they are indeed going to be rampaging in vanduul space. Ya Eclipse and Crimson Talons squadrons will flood the market Ya... ya... droooollll.... The Scythe is the "only" ship that will never be on sale again (so we'll need to get it from Salvage unless we were an early backer like yourself - or through the grey market) ---- according to Ben. Ben also mentioned that the Idris will no longer be on sale by RSI but that's not true - you can get it now in a $5k package. You can still buy The Completionist pack. You email Chelesa in Concierge and she adds the token to your account. Says Zero Left (0) - so how can you buy it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Jen Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ya Eclipse and Crimson Talons squadrons will flood the market Says Zero Left (0) - so how can you buy it? Technically with enough money you can get almost any ship. With 2 years left in development we will see the rest of the ships on sale again, probably at least twice. VoA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Ya Eclipse and Crimson Talons squadrons will flood the market Says Zero Left (0) - so how can you buy it? It's true that "The Completionist" game package is sold out -- it has been for more than a year. However, Wu Jen is correct; any one can buy The Completionist pack if they contact CIG Support and request it (you don't even need Concierge access). CIG isn't going to say "No" to a backer willing to pledge $15k to Star Citizen. So if there's someone out there who's willing to drop $15k, they can definitely own an Idris and Captured Vanduul Scythe. Regardless, as others have mentioned, Eclipse Squadron will make it our business to capture any and all Vanduul ships that we can get our hands on. After we've outfitted our squadron with Vanduul ships, we plan on selling any surplus to the rest of Imperium and other players, for the right price. I'm banking on that Vanduul ships will be the ultimate prestige ships, and they'll be more valuable than even the 890 Jump. stellatenebrae, VoA and Wu Jen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Jen Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 But back to the 890, we know it will be big and know that it will have a boat launch. I think it being able to hold a M50 would be ideal. Since they are both Origin ships. Have the 890 to take you in style someplace and the M50 to go 'tear assin' around! Whittle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minted Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 But back to the 890, we know it will be big and know that it will have a boat launch. I think it being able to hold a M50 would be ideal. Since they are both Origin ships. Have the 890 to take you in style someplace and the M50 to go 'tear assin' around! I wouldn't be surprised if it will have its own launch craft, similar to the connie having its Merlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanus Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised if it will have its own launch craft, similar to the connie having its Merlin. I tend to agree. Don't get me wrong I WANT it to be able to hold an M50 or a 350R, but given the description calls it a "small boat bay" rather than a "single seat ship hangar" I'm thinking that this is more geared towards a small launch along a similar vein to the Merlin that comes with the Connie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlasseTYP Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Found this: What u think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DASKOMMTDAWEG Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Where do I pledge for it?*g* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Found this: What u think? That's not concept art for Star Citizen. Presumably that's a concept pic for a RL luxury airship. (The conventional propeller pods are a dead giveaway -- a SC ship would have thrusters instead.) It's an interesting concept, but ridiculously impractical. The amount of helium required to counter the weight of the water would be impractical. Also, the pic shows that airship hovering above snow-capped mountains. Imagine how COLD it would be at that altitude! Perhaps there could be a luxury starship with a similar design in SC, with a transparent dome roof or possibly a force field. But it won't be the 890 Jump. I suppose it's possible that a high-end variant model of the 890 Jump might have a hot tub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DASKOMMTDAWEG Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 You`re sitting in the movies claiming "Thats totally unrealistic!", right? Just joking... You`re right, but its a nice dream. Here is the real thing:http://img.welt.de/img/reise/crop117840346/2289591863-ci3x2l-w540-aoriginal-h360-l0/DWO-Aether-Cruise1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearWoo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 This is a bit off topic but... Cruise airship might sound unpractical but there is a company working on cargo airships. http://www.varialift.com/ Seems like prototype is under construction. It brings back memories of playing Crimson Skies. I enjoyed playing that game a lot. BladeNZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I doubt that CIG will overcharge for the 890 Jump, because they're smart enough to know that they make more money on volume than on high prices. The Idris-M cost $1000, and CIG sold at least 100 of them. That's $100,000. BFD! That's nothing. That's the equivalent to a few average days of Star Citizen's on-going crowdfunding efforts. There are ~300 Idris-P's out there, priced $1250. That's $375,000. Again, that's insignificant compared to the revenue that the 300i, Hornet, and Freelancer have each generated during the first week that their brochures were released, which was over $2 million for each ship. The vast majority of backers own the Aurora or 300i, the two least expensive ships. However, those 2 ships probably account for at least 30% of Star Citizen's $48 million funding (and counting). My point is that if CIG prices the 890 Jump too high, then very few people will buy it. If CIG prices the 890 Jump at $750, and 1000 backers buy it, that's $750,000. Not bad. However, if CIG prices the 890 Jump at $300, and 5000 backers buy it, that's $1,500,000. Twice as much! Considering that the Banu Merchantman is 100 metres long, weighs 800 tons, hauls 6000 freight units, and only cost $250, I doubt that CIG will charge much more for the 890 Jump. I predict that it'll be $300. The extra $50 compared to the Merchantman is purely for the "luxury" status. Call it a realization... but if the RSI Constellation Phoenix is $350 as a standalone, I'm betting that the Origin 890 JUMP is at least $450, probably $500. VoA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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