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After yesterdays discussion on teamspeak I am thinking of buying the x65f HOTAS:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsvAtXoalpY

 

I am not sure though if the dozens of buttons and hats will be of any use in Star Citizen, I mean it is not MS flight simulator. And also does anyone who had this stick have any experience on the force thing where the stick is not moving? If the stick is too much can anyone recommend a smaller HOTAS?

Since 1996 I had many types os joysticks, most of them were simple (like my last Saitek Aviator - 2009) but when I've started playing the DCS (Digital Combat Simualtor) series I knew that I needed something better. Many of my simmer friends had the X-52 PRO and they always told me good things about it, so I bought one. I'm almost 2 years with it without regrets ! Made of plastic but pretty good joystick, responsive and functional. Before buying it, the X-65F was an option for me, so I went to a friend house to test it. Didn't like at all, specially because it' doesn't move, and it have less programmable buttons than the X-52 PRO. But the X-65F have one thing that beats (hard) the X-52 models: Dual throttle. That makes a very big difference when flying modern fighters (or even civilian planes) with 2 engines. Now I'm thinking about getting a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog because man, that is THE joystick for those who want to sim in the military way. I've tested it and for me it's almost perfect ! So, if you can do like me: test them all ! It's the better way to find which joystick fits better for you. BB

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Is it just me, or does CR always seem to be clutching what looks like an x360 controller?

 

Bizzare lol.

 

I'm sure that's just a matter of convenience, because an Xbox 360 controller is much more compact than a joystick (and throttle), and can be used for both flying a ship and controlling a character.

 

I plan to use a HOTAS for piloting, but I'll definitely have a controller (ideally a Xbox One controller B) ) for FPS and walking around my ship, spaceports, and other open environments.

 

So don't be so quick to knock CR's usage of the Xbox 360 controller. :P

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Also you have to see that CR only showed stuff in presentations. Controller is best for that because you do not have to have a prepared fixed workspace like for mouse or joystick. You can use it freely in the air while turning or walking around.

 

We was not flying competitively in PVP.

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saitek has a problem with QA ever since madcatz bought em out, but i hear a good x52 will last you a long time as well as being a solid stick, i know if you have any issues with anything there is more than likely a guide to magnet mods and other such things. i personally use an old saitek cyborg evo for dcs a-10/freespace 2

 

i also hear good things about thrustmaster tflight hotas

 

edit: the only real problem with the warthog is it's 500 $ pricetag

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The Warthog HOTAS looks amazing, but it's obviously modeled after the A-10's real controls, with a lot of old school switches, dials, and buttons, all of which are marked. Call me a purist, but I don't really want to use flight controls for a 20th century warplane for simming a 30th century space ship. The Saitek X52 and X65, and Thrustmater HOTAS, are a more generic and timeless design, which feel more appropriate for Star Citizen IMO. B)

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The Warthog HOTAS looks amazing, but it's obviously modeled after the A-10's real controls, with a lot of old school switches, dials, and buttons, all of which are marked. Call me a purist, but I don't really want to use flight controls for a 20th century warplane for simming a 30th century space ship. The Saitek X52 and X65, and Thrustmater HOTAS, are a more generic and timeless design, which feel more appropriate for Star Citizen IMO. B)

 

Well, from the looks department you are probably right. I'd choose the warthog over the X52 any day though: The Trustmaster feels much more solid and "real" in comparism to any joystick I know. After using the warthog for a while you can't go back anymore because every other stick feels like a toy  :D

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I'll wait until I really can see an advantage for independent throttle control. My main problem with the Warthog is that I'd have to buy additional rudder pedals, if I don't want to cobble something together and reroute the rudder controls to some switch.

Until then I'll stick with my (aging) X52pro.

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You can define a dead Zone for the rudder axis for the x65 (who what to use peddals in StarCitizen???)

 

And I wont use the throttle in this game... this IMO wouldnt react fast enough; so I will define a wheel for them.

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I own X52 Pro and play flight sims and I can recommend it as one of the cheaper cool looking HOTAS you can lay your hands on.

Check this out, looks like Warthog and I'm salivating.

 

VKB Fat Black Mamba joystick

http://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/vkb-fat-black-mamba-for-non-eu/

Posted Image

 

 

 

And a cheaper model.

Defender Cobra M5 Joystick

http://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/cobra-m5/

Posted Image

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I've used a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro for years in the Battlefield series as well as ARMA2. It's got rotational rudder control but I've never had a problem accidentally hitting rudders since it does have a small deadzone. 

 

I'm looking around at options, and TBH I think it would be wise to wait for an official peripheral in case it offers some kind of special functionality/perks. If it doesn't or isn't up to par I'll probably just get the best HOTAS setup available.

 

If anything, getting pedals now might be a good idea so I can get some practice in before the dogfighting module is released. 

Has anyone heard if pedals will even be supported for the module?

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I've used a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro for years in the Battlefield series as well as ARMA2. It's got rotational rudder control but I've never had a problem accidentally hitting rudders since it does have a small deadzone. 

 

I'm looking around at options, and TBH I think it would be wise to wait for an official peripheral in case it offers some kind of special functionality/perks. If it doesn't or isn't up to par I'll probably just get the best HOTAS setup available.

 

If anything, getting pedals now might be a good idea so I can get some practice in before the dogfighting module is released. 

Has anyone heard if pedals will even be supported for the module?

 

 

I don't think you need a rudder pedal unless you're really into flight sim (atmospheric). It is easier to execute maneuvers if we can separate rudder control from the flight stick.

 

From the SC video clips, the yaw axis is mapped to the main flightstick just like any space sim. Definitely will be supported as the rudder pedal will be like any controllers, you can map any axis or keys to it.

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I own X52 Pro and play flight sims and I can recommend it as one of the cheaper cool looking HOTAS you can lay your hands on. Check this out, looks like Warthog and I'm salivating.   VKB Fat Black Mamba joystick

Any reviews of this stick yet? It looks like a legit alternative to the Warthog, but I wouldn't buy it without some good reviews saying its at least as good. Google didn't reveal much that I could see.

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I don't think you need a rudder pedal unless you're really into flight sim (atmospheric). It is easier to execute maneuvers if we can separate rudder control from the flight stick.   From the SC video clips, the yaw axis is mapped to the main flightstick just like any space sim. Definitely will be supported as the rudder pedal will be like any controllers, you can map any axis or keys to it.

Just a note, I play Planetside 2, and even though the game has horrible joystick support, I still use my rudder pedals for up/down hover control. I can more precisely set my vertical thrust than most other players. The "aircraft" in Planetside 2 have a very unrealistic flight model that makes them feel like there's no air resistance at all and very little gravity, so I think its a good indication of how the SC flight model could end up (it would make sense in Planetside 2, if Planetside 2 was a game in space, lol). Rudder pedals are very useful there. So I definitely think rudder pedals will be worth it even if they aren't used in the classic atmospheric controlling-the-rudder sense.

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I don't think you need a rudder pedal unless you're really into flight sim (atmospheric). It is easier to execute maneuvers if we can separate rudder control from the flight stick.

 

From the SC video clips, the yaw axis is mapped to the main flightstick just like any space sim. Definitely will be supported as the rudder pedal will be like any controllers, you can map any axis or keys to it.

 

I'm basically a newb with flightsims. My experience is mainly flying choppers in the FPS's I listed as well as a metric shit-ton of Tie Fighter and Wing Commander back in the day. 

 

Do you think rudder pedals will give an advantage in SC? I'm down to go nuts on controls if it will actually be advantageous.

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I'd like to add my two cents boys. Being a die hard flight simmer ( bms 4.32 viper and DCS a-10) I would highly recommend the x-52 pro. The x65 is a nice piece of equipment, but it just feels slightly unnatural to me, my thrust master warthog has much more true to life feel due to the incredible hall sensors which provide the highest resolution ...and doesn't move the craft when your hand is rested on it...the x65 detects the force applied by your hand which leads to resting drift and isn't as accurate as the warthog. That being said these sticks are $500.00 investments and are really for hardcore flight sims which literally require every china hat, toggle, and trigger available. The x52 pro has more than enough buttons and feels incredibly natural to the touch. It is less than half the price of the warthog, feels incredible in your hand (I've put in over 80 hours in bms with it) and build quality is second to none (saitek rocks). it is also insanely customizable ( you can change the led colors and there is a three way switch which when turned, makes every button on the joystick do something new aka hundreds of commands example offense, defense, navigation mode) In the end the choice is yours, but I'd say for this game to drop 600 on a warthog would be useless for just SC. Pick up x52 PRO and never look back

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Any reviews of this stick yet? It looks like a legit alternative to the Warthog, but I wouldn't buy it without some good reviews saying its at least as good. Google didn't reveal much that I could see.

 

Just a note, I play Planetside 2, and even though the game has horrible joystick support, I still use my rudder pedals for up/down hover control. I can more precisely set my vertical thrust than most other players. The "aircraft" in Planetside 2 have a very unrealistic flight model that makes them feel like there's no air resistance at all and very little gravity, so I think its a good indication of how the SC flight model could end up (it would make sense in Planetside 2, if Planetside 2 was a game in space, lol). Rudder pedals are very useful there. So I definitely think rudder pedals will be worth it even if they aren't used in the classic atmospheric controlling-the-rudder sense.

 

I'm basically a newb with flightsims. My experience is mainly flying choppers in the FPS's I listed as well as a metric shit-ton of Tie Fighter and Wing Commander back in the day. 

 

Do you think rudder pedals will give an advantage in SC? I'm down to go nuts on controls if it will actually be advantageous.

 

If you plan to buy joystick or HOTAS JUST FOR SC, I suggest to put on hold first an see how the DF module turn out. I have the feeling SC will be less of a simulation/immersion and more to mouse arcade type of game to appeal to the mass.

 

For examnple, in War Thunder us stick users are at severe disadvantageous in Arcade Battle mode due to over precision of mouse. Only in Full Real Battle mode, mouse aim is disabled and can only be played by stick users. If SC disable mouse aim, but using mouse cursor to emulate joystick movement on screen I think only stick users will have fairer chance against mouse users.

 

For space sim a HOTAS without rudder pedal is enough. Rolling can be applied to the twist stick function. In normal atmospheric flight, it's hard to take off with rudder control on the twist stick and the twist stick axis can bleed into the pitch axis so that's why a separate controller like rudder pedal is required. Mapping to keyboard will only kill the immersion experience in a flight sim. While executing maneuvers, the slightest input on unintended axis will send your plane to flat spin and come crashing down - enlarging the deadzones will only decrease the accuracy and precision.

 

For that extra 2 movements in 6DOF that isn't available in atmospheric flight,  heave (vertical up down) and sway (horizontal left right), I think it will be easier if mapped to a hat switch on the throttle if you have a HOTAS or a hat switch on the joystick if you don't have throttle.

 

So if you play flight sim and space sim like SC -  go get HOTAS and rudder pedal.

Only space sim - probably joystick, probably HOTAS.

 

In space sim by default - pitch and yaw is mapped to the stick by default.

Atmospheric flight - pitch and roll to the stick. Yaw to rudder pedal or twist stick.

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I'd like to add my two cents boys. Being a die hard flight simmer ( bms 4.32 viper and DCS a-10) I would highly recommend the x-52 pro. The x65 is a nice piece of equipment, but it just feels slightly unnatural to me, my thrust master warthog has much more true to life feel due to the incredible hall sensors which provide the highest resolution ...and doesn't move the craft when your hand is rested on it...the x65 detects the force applied by your hand which leads to resting drift and isn't as accurate as the warthog. That being said these sticks are $500.00 investments and are really for hardcore flight sims which literally require every china hat, toggle, and trigger available. The x52 pro has more than enough buttons and feels incredibly natural to the touch. It is less than half the price of the warthog, feels incredible in your hand (I've put in over 80 hours in bms with it) and build quality is second to none (saitek rocks). it is also insanely customizable ( you can change the led colors and there is a three way switch which when turned, makes every button on the joystick do something new aka hundreds of commands example offense, defense, navigation mode) In the end the choice is yours, but I'd say for this game to drop 600 on a warthog would be useless for just SC. Pick up x52 PRO and never look back Acta Non Verba

 

X52 Pro is one the cheapest around. Of course I would love to get the Warthog if I've got the money.

 

BTW I don't think SC will be like X-Wing vs Tie Fighter  where a joystick controller is required to play the game lol..- if they go down this route I think CIG will alienate many people and lotsa will be angry although personally I vouch for this haha for the immersion.

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Any reviews of this stick yet? It looks like a legit alternative to the Warthog, but I wouldn't buy it without some good reviews saying its at least as good. Google didn't reveal much that I could see.

 

I think they are good enough judging from reviews by flight simmer community. The sticks are replicas of some current Russian jet fighters' flight stick.

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Guys just so you know I believe that VBK stick is "stick only". Meaning you need the thrust master or any other compatible handle! Saitek has been making sticks for a long time now, and the X52 pro is a fine example of a flight stick for hardcore flight sim, it would be great for SC. Also you can change all the Led's to whatever color you like using the software..thought that was pretty cool! Acta Non Verba

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Great thread giving an in-depth analysis of joysticks and HOTAS:   http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/100183-thomas-joystick-guide-recovered/

This really is a good review of just about every relevant stick on the market. I also agree with his conclusions of what you should buy in each price bracket, except over $100 I'd just stick with the CH Fighterstick all the way up until I could get the Warthog, adding CH Pedals and/or CH Throttle as budget increases. The pick of the T.16000M is right on the money at $40. I'm hoping CIG doesn't make the mouse better than a joystick. I don't care if they're on parity levels, but it shouldn't be better. I think a much better way would be to make joysticks marginally better, and sell an official Star Citizen edition joystick in the CIG store that is a good deal for players who feel they need a joystick to compete.

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