Crusader Ares StarFighter

[Buckaroo]

I don't have the funds to buy both and am torn which would be best.

The Ares INFERNO

• Uses a ballistic weapon so it can (in theory) tear through armor and smaller ships
• Has heavier [medium] armor compared to the ION
• BUT could possibly have a harder time cutting through capital ship shields and uses ammo (which could potentially run out)

The Ares ION

• Uses a laser weapon with no ammo limit and can (in theory) tear through shields of any opponent
• Has an additional cooler, shield, and power plant compared to the INFERNO
• BUT could possibly be harder to hit smaller ships making it less of a good dog-fighter ship

 

What are your thoughts?  I know this may be a bit early as we don't have a lot of info yet...

[Nevermore]

I don't know how easy it would be to hit smaller fighters if the guns are fixed but then again maybe they're suppose to be weak against interceptors?
 

[Boildown]

My guess is this is an actual attack craft that isn't meant to dogfight things smaller than it.  It can probably "dogfight" large lumbering craft though... i.e. it can get them its in gunsights while tanking their small turrets because it can't evade them (but possible can outrange them).  But anything with an ounce of maneuverability, like a Vanguard / Gladiator on downwards, probably including ships like the Cutlass and Constellation, will be able to maneuver such that they can hit it while it can't hit them (other than with its few missiles).

I also expect this to completely counter ground vehicles.  A tonk that files. As Chris Roberts likes his WW2 analogs, I'd say this one will be the B-25G:

That said, I think it'll be more maneuverable than the typical combat-sim B-25 simply because its a space game without aerodynamic considerations.  Also, lack of maneuverability can be covered up by good wingman tactics... i.e. they drop on your six how are they going to prevent your wingman from one-shotting them while they chip your rear armor?

Is it worth getting? If you hate the idea of expending expensive torpedoes, I'd say yes. But this lane is mostly already covered by torpedoes. Someone will make a game balance decision years from now that will determine which is better than the other in the final verse.

All this is just my guess after reading the pdf and store page.

[Danakar Endeel]

On 12/12/2019 at 6:42 PM, Buckaroo said:

I don't have the funds to buy both and am torn which would be best.

The Ares INFERNO

• Uses a ballistic weapon so it can (in theory) tear through armor and smaller ships
• Has heavier [medium] armor compared to the ION
• BUT could possibly have a harder time cutting through capital ship shields and uses ammo (which could potentially run out)

The Ares ION

• Uses a laser weapon with no ammo limit and can (in theory) tear through shields of any opponent
• Has an additional cooler, shield, and power plant compared to the INFERNO
• BUT could possibly be harder to hit smaller ships making it less of a good dog-fighter ship

 

What are your thoughts?  I know this may be a bit early as we don't have a lot of info yet...

Same issue here.

I'm personally leaning towards the INFERNO as it just looks way more badass. 😎

INFERNO also seems more geared towards a lone wolf assaulting medium-to-large sized ships on its own while the ION is more of a packhunter against capital sized ships.

On its own I doubt a single ION would be much of a threat to a Hammerhead (or similar ship) as a single S7 energy autocannon won't be enough to overcome the shield regen of the Hammerhead. At present time a stock Hammerhead can already regenerate approximately 4000 damage per second (8700+ regen with 2x MIL-A FR-86 generators!!) vs a S7 gun that will likely deal around 1750-2000 DPS. So you'd need 2-4 Ares ION fighters pounding away at a Hammerhead just to overcome the regen rates of its 2 Large shield generators.

According to the wiki and other sites, the S7 Behring M9A deals around 1742 DPS. I think that the Behring SF7E will be similar to the Behring M9A Laser Cannon.

http://starcitizendb.com/components/weapon/BEHR_LaserCannon_S7

Also, with the ION having space allocated for all those extra medium sized components I do hope that the INFERNO won't just have empty holes there but perhaps extra ammo storage for feeding that ballistic repeater instead of just having 5000 rounds or something and that's it. 

I hope I can get that question (extra ammo storage) in as soon as the Q&A thread goes up as I would love to hear CIG's thoughts on this. Sadly I'm always finding out that the Q&A already started and then I'll never get enough upvotes because I'm too low on the list.  

EDIT: John Crewe already talked about it in ISC and stated that the INFERNO will have extra ammo storage in the areas where the ION has the extra components.

[Buckaroo]

10 minutes ago, Danakar Endeel said:

I hope I can get that question (extra ammo storage) in as soon as the Q&A thread goes up as I would love to hear CIG's thoughts on this. Sadly I'm always finding out that the Q&A already started and then I'll never get enough upvotes because I'm too low on the list.  

I'll definitely upvote your question

[bladeofdeath3]

1 hour ago, Nevermore said:

I don't know how easy it would be to hit smaller fighters if the guns are fixed but then again maybe they're suppose to be weak against interceptors?
 

The brochure states that you should use missiles against small fighters.

The Ion seems to be more like a high DPS precision platform, as the estimated rate of fire is 38 shots/min.  However, it does sound like it's designed to efficiently take down shields and still effective against armor and hull.  While you do have missiles (it sounds like you have 16 S3 missiles stock [4 racks of 4 missiles], but you can change 2 of those racks, possibly to 1 S5 missile/torpedo), I don't think the Ion will be great against a lot of smaller targets.  Sure the laser can probably serious damage if not destroy smaller opponents outright, I can't see it being very efficient given the lower RoF.

The Inferno seems to be a little bit more rugged and general purpose, better against most targets, having a high RoF ballistic cannon instead of the mega-laser.  It does have more armor than the Ion (although both still have medium armor), but it does have 1 less power plant, battery, cooler, and shield generator.  While it sounds like it can be utilized to take on larger ships or small capital ships alone, the brochure does sound like it's intended to work with the Ion against small capitals to make up for the lower RoF of the Ion.

I guess it comes down to do you want something more specialized or more of a general purpose ship

[Devil Khan]

Too be honest you'd have to pair them for full capability. I'm thinking of CCUing my 2 hurricanes.  

I'm liking them more, but 3xS2 Shields for the Inferno and just 2xS2 for the Ion.

[Brightmist]

Battery bit is interesting. It might be an ammo mechanic for laser weapons. It might also be another power related resource mechanic, managing things like boost duration/availability.

Main difference between variants is you need to be pinpoint accurate with laser cannon whereas you have some room for error with ballistic gatling so it's highly likely to be better against smaller targets as it will have higher area saturation. Gatling is also highly likely to cost more to operate.

Rest would depend on how shields and armor work in the supposed physical based damage system, mainly shield and armor penetration and also regeneration. Currently, there's no armor but just component health with an absurd amount of shield regeneration but shields are likely to get a nerf in both regeneration and impermeability when armor's implemented(we also know they like to show damage on the hull) and these S7 weapons are the weapons most likely to penetrate large/capital shields and armor in the single seater fighter ecosystem.

All things concerned, I think Inferno is the better pick since all fighters would be able to damage/reduce shields of a large/capital ship with an energy damage heavy loadout, maybe even more so than an Ares Ion if they're setup accordingly but I don't think all fighters would be able to penetrate large/capital shields and put damage on the hull with smaller sized weapons when the said shields are lower than full(Note that shields do currently lose a bit impermeability as they go lower but I expect that to increase when physical based damage system is implemented).

[buzby x]

this thing comes really close to making the Gladiator obsolete

[GalYurr]

Picked up both, but I'd keep the Inferno if I had to choose just one.  Seems more versatile.  Plus, that black skin is godly and goes with the advocacy skin for the Mercury.

Guy on ISC said the Inferno has expanded ammo capacity instead of the Ion's additional components and "much heavier armour" which the Ion can't handle alongside the weight of its added components.

[Riley Egret]

31 minutes ago, buzby x said:

this thing comes really close to making the Gladiator obsolete

I'm more worried about the Vanguard....

They're built around the same concept ( a BFG), just this one's...bigger.

The Vanguard still has range ( but only non quantum, since the Q tank is the same), more armor but the Ares gives the feeling of being a better dogfighter ( if get caught in one)

[Danakar Endeel]

2 hours ago, Buckaroo said:

I'll definitely upvote your question

Sounds like I won't have to ask the question as John Crewe already talked about it during ISC

 

 

John Crewe: "...that is quite a difference to the INFERNO ballistic version which has a ballistic repeater sort of Gatling gun on it that doesn't need the extra powerplant and cooler to function so it trades that out for extra ammo capacity has much heavier armor which the ION doesn't have because it needs those extra components to function so it can't deal with the extra weight of armor on top..." 

 

[Buckaroo]

I still think it would be a good idea to ask HOW much ammo will it carry as it has one gun and that one gun uses ammo... 

 

NEXT QUESTION...

Did they mention if the S7 weapon mount on either the ION or INFERNO were at all able to be swapped with other weapons of the same size?

[ChiefWarrant]

They did mention that the weapons are bespoke to each variant. So not swappable. It was mentioned on the Around the Verse today. (Or Inside Star Citizen.... whatever it’s called)

[Buckaroo]

1 hour ago, CaptainSomar said:

They did mention that the weapons are bespoke to each variant. So not swappable. It was mentioned on the Around the Verse today. (Or Inside Star Citizen.... whatever it’s called)

I re-listened to the Inside Star Citizen, and they don't mention specifically if the weapons can be replaced or not.  Only that their vision was a ship that looked like a ship attached to a gun versus a gun attached to a ship.  One variant is made specifically with an energy weapon in mind while the other with a ballistic weapon.  I think the question of if the current loadout is replaceable by a similar type weapon on the Ares is still valid and needs to be answered.  

If I can replace the laser gun with a laser repeater--I'm all in on the ION.  If not, then the INFERNO is (imo) a better choice.

 

EDIT:  I have now re-read the brochure and it also doesn't specify if the weapon can be replaced or not--it does say that the currently included weapons were specifically designed by Behring for the Star Fighter chassis and could possibly be unavailable otherwise.

"The Chassis utilizes a fixed size 7 weapon mount..."    "enables the chosen gun to be integrated into the body..."

[Painmiester]

These were made to assault capitals class ships and maybe sub caps .there smaller size should be seen as a plus- then large ship/caps  so add to the difficulty scale to be hit by larger ships. there meant to soften up a target so the big guys can engage.

Used in tandem with in a strike force with the eclipse"s  and the agile gladiators protected by / light/med/ heavy  fighters should overwhelm a opponent. or force .

[Brightmist]

You can't switch weapons.

Ships are designed around weapons, not the other way around.

These ships are gonna be bad dogfighters and likely require some amount of fighter escorts. Vanguard with turret and gimballed large weapon,  Sentinel's EMP/EWAR or extra armor from Warden are just gonna be superior in dogfighting scenarios.

Ares will pair well with other light/medium/heavy fighters tho and can likely replace smallish bombers like Gladiator.

[Devil Khan]

It isn't a dogfighter, it is meant to hit harder the large ships with ease. The two are tandum and meant to compliment each other. A very nice ship. Howevet, the fixed (not talking about aimming) weapon it a really bad design. The ship can't change weapon even the same type afaik. Still, it fills the gap nicely. I'd see it going in the game next year. Too much of the "new" fighters were friggin' glass cannons. I still don't like the shield S2x3 inferno and S2x2 on the Ion. The inferno gets extra shield and ammo and the Ion gets an extra power plant.

[Painmiester]

The inferno is made to get closer and hit harder against armor - the ion is meant to linger lack and disrupt the shield to allow armor hits and or torps

Don't discount the Gladiator 4 ea size 5 torps. and faster.

2x Class 2 (wings; Size 2)	2x Behring Mk IV Laser Cannon (S2)
2x Class 1 (manned turret; Size 2)	2x K&W CF-117 Badger Laser Gatling (S2)

1x Class 3 (belly bay; Size 5)4x Torpedo (Size 5)

4x Class 3 (under wings; Size 3)2× 2x FireStorm Kinetics ASIM-09/Tempest (S5).

 

[Devil Khan]

 

[Danakar Endeel]

If only.... 😍

[Fizzlefuse]

This gun looks pretty nice.. and it has a ship attached to it too!
I wont be getting one though. Right now I can't really afford it, and even if.. I'm getting tired of combat ships.

[Debonair]

Thinking if can park them on the Idris hangar, per old dated jump point dimensions 11m X 25m X 110m.
The Ares beam is 30.2 and I don't think the wings are foldable means no joy, unless the Idris has grown bigger. Read its still touch and go about the Vanguard fitting in with its beam of 26.5 but its wings can fold, just matter its height with landing gear deployed at 9.5m.

Ideally I like to launch a strike package of Gladiator, Harbinger, Ares from my Idris. Too much?
Edit: saw the Ares with Idris pic, Idris bow looks much bigger.

[Buckaroo]

9 hours ago, Brightmist said:

You can't switch weapons.

Ships are designed around weapons, not the other way around.

These ships are gonna be bad dogfighters and likely require some amount of fighter escorts. Vanguard with turret and gimballed large weapon,  Sentinel's EMP/EWAR or extra armor from Warden are just gonna be superior in dogfighting scenarios.

Ares will pair well with other light/medium/heavy fighters tho and can likely replace smallish bombers like Gladiator.

See you say "You can't switch weapons" as if it's fact, but really we do not have a solid answer regarding that question anywhere from anyone at CIG.  It's not on the website, it hasn't been mentioned by anyone, and it's not specifically stated in the brochure.  At this point the answer to the question is only opinion and speculation.  If you have an answer from CIG regarding this that states "Yes it can be swapped" or "No it can't be swapped", please share your link!  

This question has been asked in the Q&A thread, and I hope it gets enough up-votes to be answered by the DEV team.

[Devil Khan]

Maybe "we can't change weapon type" eg balistic or energy.