Jump to content
VoA

RSI Mantis

Recommended Posts

CIG has teased us a bit of late with the newest (upcoming) ship concept.   LIkely to be named the RSI Mantis (I'll modify the title of the thread if it is called something else like the K'Lis).   Much of the information we have is leaked or hacked from files but now we have the clearest picture of the ship now posted (see below).    Manitis is a perfect name for "Snatching" another ship out of Quantum Drive and this image shows some type of EMP device that will likely be used to Interdict a Ship and bring it out of Quantum speed - like as shown in the image with the Caterpillar

star citizen rsi mantis designstar citizen rsi mantis space

rg6wj20ieko31.jpg

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17236-Coming-Soon

Post image

Some older (previous images) shown below....

ueHMIsi.jpg

source.jpg

sddcjvnx46o31.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Golden Ticket
7 hours ago
 
 

In case you missed what the new ship reveal is, here is the mechanic in action since early 2018 with source material and links

renderTimingPixel.png

So let's just agree what they are showing is quantum interdiction. Here are links of that in game with the same red pulsing orb mechanic inside a connie as early as Alpha 3.1 in 2018. The first real mention and design of it came with ATV 2.20, here: https://youtu.be/MGzOj9mWB4U?t=861

The original stated goal of the interdiction weapon you are seeing is that it could be a component on a variety of ships, especially larger cap ships should either come stock or easily add these. If they changed this to a singular ship role instead of a component then that would suck for gameplay because you would have to have this very specific ship.

Here is a video showing the pulsing orb in game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=24&v=oRoiGINsOD8

Here is a clearer series with more dramatic red pulsing orb around the ship to demo that it is the thing stopping your quantum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j67wk46N0Q

If you want more information about it over the years here are a few samples you can read: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-episode-2-15, https://relay.sc/transcript/reverse-the-verse-january-subscriber-edition, https://relay.sc/transcript/10-for-the-chairman-episode-84, https://relay.sc/article/march-monthly-report-summary, https://relay.sc/article/february-monthly-report-summary, https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse-episode-2-33

the last one probably has the most verbiage as to their original plan of putting it onto any ship. this is a snippet from that one:

MS: So we’re definitely looking at some other options for that, although a couple of those options drift back more into the very pirate themed. One of the biggest ones that we’re definitely hashing out right now is an interdiction weapon. So we don’t have all the exacts of that mechanic locked in right now, but it’s one of the things we want this ship to have where well we need something that’s going to pull you either out of quantum or pull you out of jump or disrupt your ability go into those fast transit modes. So we’re looking at the Buccaneer being the Drake ship that carries that load into battle.

Then even in the situation where you have a couple, say you have two Buccaneers and a Cutlass and they’re jumping a target, those Buccaneers would basically be the ones trying to suppress the target, keep them from getting into the quantum, trying to keep their shields down, where the Cutlass and that crew, they’ll probably be the ones trying to be like, “Alright cool, they’ve got em pinned, you two guys get out the airlock, get over to that ship, take it over, let’s start getting whatever cargo or whatever valuables we can from them into our ship and then just get out”.

JH: Gotcha, I definitely like this way that this all seems to be working together. You’ve got your Herald for your surveillance and your information gathering, you’ve got your Buccaneer to disable the targets, you’ve got the Cutlass’s to bring in your boarding parties and stuff like that and then you’ve got your Caterpillar to haul away your booty.

keyword search those articles for "interdict" and youll see all the references. there are more samples and this doesnt include the Bensday with Batgirl episodes that also had some references because theres just too many videos to go through and i dont have the time.

They kind of went radio silence regarding players being able to do quantum interdiction after that while working on the RSI Mantis.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea of another heavy fighter is nice. I am looking forward to this ship.
But - I don´t like the idea of interdiction being something you need a specialized ship for.

My hopes/wishes:
- A bit of internal space with beds, small personal storage and dedicated cargo grid (~2 SCU would be enough to store at least some mission boxes securely)
- A second seat for a turret/gunner <-- current picture may indicate this is not the case or it´s on the back side that is not shown
- A loadout that is apropriate for a heavy fighter (looking at you Vanguard!)

RSI is known for their versatility so this should (hopefully) be realistic expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I had hoped it would be a pylon mounted module that could be equipped on other ships as well. Kinda like how the pylon mounted EMP-generators from the Aegis Raven appear to be something that other ships with the proper size hardpoint should be able to equip as well. As such I would have liked the idea that this 'Mantis' might have been the first ship to come stock with some kind of 'Quantum Interdiction Generator' mounted to a hardpoint while other ships with the right size hardpoint would also be able to equip it.

But after seeing the latest image it doesn't look like it will be a pylon mounted module at all. That's a real letdown in my opinion as a module (like the S4 MaxOx EMP Generator) would have allowed players to use it on other ships as well. Seems like this 'Mantis' is completely purpose-built around this one gimmick.  

Looks like this will just be another (likely overpriced) singleseat fighter with a ship-locked one-trick-pony gimmick that can't be used by any other ship. A real missed opportunity if that will be the case in my opinion. 😒

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was hoping that this system would have been just a module you could install as well, but CIG as usual takes every new mechanic as an opportunity to create a new ship around it, to feed the machine. Gotta catch em all, keep milking the whales.

Perhaps we will still see a more universal system later on though, as this is just the first few steps they're taking. All I know is I'm personally done spending money on the project... at least for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that bothers me the most is that they give an in Lore explanation for everything that happens in the PU at the moment.
So when a police Avenger or Pirate Buccaneer pulls me out of quantum ... how exactly does that happen?
Because of this everyone expected it to be a module that you could fitt onto almost every ship.

Also why RSI and not DRAKE for the most pirate thing possibly ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally was hoping for a cutlass/freelancer competitor, but as everyone has pointed out that's now not likely with the latest images.  We're looking at either some interdiction or stealth type ship--likely the former.  And being way overpriced.

 

Edit: Nice looking ship (although with those nacelles on the back, looks like something out of Star Trek), but I won't be buying as currently I have no need for one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An article was leaked about the ship ...
Initial Source: StarCitizen Leaks Discord
https://www.newsweek.com/star-citizen-rsi-mantis-reveal-exclusive-quantum-enforcement-gameplay-price-1460985

Apparently the Article was not leaked, but on time as CIG just tweeted about it.

star-citizen-rsi-mantis-space.jpg?w=737&

star-citizen-rsi-mantis-design.jpg?w=737

 

 

So basically it´s straight to flyable and its main features are "Quantum Snaring" and "Quantum Dampening". One pulls you out of quantum the other keeps your drive from spooling up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, GRIZZ said:

Color me surprised.

It's a trend to go straight to flyable these days.. (especially for smaller ships) which to be fair seems better then waiting ages for your prefered ship/mechanic to finally get developed, but I have no doubt this ship will also be overpriced to hell and back.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Shifty said:

The thing that bothers me the most is that they give an in Lore explanation for everything that happens in the PU at the moment.
So when a police Avenger or Pirate Buccaneer pulls me out of quantum ... how exactly does that happen?
Because of this everyone expected it to be a module that you could fitt onto almost every ship.

Also why RSI and not DRAKE for the most pirate thing possibly ever.

The Newsweek article explains this + wanted to point out some one liners that are important to realize:

Quote

To further signal the player, quantum markers allow Mantis owners to easily track their prey and confront it if they choose.

 

Quote

One such goal is to make both Quantum Enforcement mechanics more nuanced. "I'm sure in the future we want to require you to have a bunch of Mantises or other ships with Quantum Enforcement Devices and pull them together to pull out a large Capital Ship," Tome suggested. "Maybe there will be a Capital Ship designed to pull out other Capital Ships. But for this first version we won't quite get to that balancing yet." Other discussed additions include UI elements that alert Mantis pilots to high-traffic areas.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, VoA said:

The Newsweek article explains this + wanted to point out some one liners that are important to realize:

Highly depends on the perspective of the person reading it.

Quote

One such goal is to make both Quantum Enforcement mechanics more nuanced. "I'm sure in the future we want to require you to have a bunch of Mantises or other ships with Quantum Enforcement Devices and pull them together to pull out a large Capital Ship," Tome suggested. "Maybe there will be a Capital Ship designed to pull out other Capital Ships. But for this first version we won't quite get to that balancing yet." Other discussed additions include UI elements that alert Mantis pilots to high-traffic areas.

Other ships could just mean other specialized ships just like the Mantis. They even confirmed this by talking about specialy designed interdictiopn captial class ships one sentence later.

latest?cb=20160118064248

 

 

There is also a German Gamestar article:
https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/star-citizen-rsi-mantis-quantum-travel-enforcement,3349340.html

Some information from that:

  • Single Seater ship
  • Not well armed (two small laser canons and two missile hardpoints) so my guess would be 2x3 for the weapons

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shifty said:

Other ships could just mean other specialized ships just like the Mantis. They even confirmed this by talking about specialy designed interdictiopn captial class ships one sentence later.

Yes they would be other specialized "Quantum Enforcement" Ships...... and they need to be because of the amount of power required to operate the device (and how powerful this type of interdiction is ---- thus these ships being lightly armed and not much good for other purposes).   The German article does spell out that larger ships will be needed to take other large ships out of Quantum per below...

Quote

Looking to the future, John Crewe does not rule out that there will be larger Quantum Enforcement ships later. The Mantis will then probably only smaller vehicles with similar dimensions as they (30 x 16 x 8 meters) pull from the hyperspace, for larger pots such as the Idris, it needs a stronger ship. "It's like the EMPs, there are different levels."

 

The main point is that even though right now only the Mantis is available to players for Quantum Enforcement......... other specialty variants like for the Cutlass as an example will become available when they get a chance to do a variant.......... but they would have to be a variant........ just like the Warlock is an Avenger Variant for EMPs

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I say that it feels weird that the interdiciton ship (available to the public nonetheless! what kind of legit uses can this thing have honestly?)  is from RSI? Considering it's basically a pirate tool with a clean dress?

To clarify, from the article " With the mantis, it is possible to prevent nearby ships to escape into quantum travel with the "dampening" feature. The "entanglement" pulls them actively out of quantum travel, with a kind of trap or noose which is placed in space. Of course, such ambushes are best suited to locations along busy quantum routes, such as between Port Olisar and Hurston.

Ships or group of ships, pulled out of quantum travel, can be jumped with the Mantis immediately by its own quantum drive, which is normaly impossible, since the travel points for this feature are fixed. However, the Mantis pilot and all members of his group get a special fast-access point to quickly surround the victim. If the Mantis then activates its dampening feature, the enemy ships can no longer flee until the Mantis is destroyed."

What's more, Crewe said interdicting it's a highly illegal activity, yet you can buy at any RSI vendor a ship built around a tool whose only purpose is breaking the law.... Just imagine if Ford sold a pickup with a custom built ATM ripper crane...


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Riley Egret said:

Can I say that it feels weird that the interdiciton ship (available to the public nonetheless! what kind of legit uses can this thing have honestly?)  is from RSI? Considering it's basically a pirate tool with a clean dress?

Why wouldn't it be a tool to "catch" pirates....... or Vanduul???😲

1 hour ago, Riley Egret said:

Ships or group of ships, pulled out of quantum travel, can be jumped with the Mantis immediately by its own quantum drive, which is normaly impossible, since the travel points for this feature are fixed. However, the Mantis pilot and all members of his group get a special fast-access point to quickly surround the victim. If the Mantis then activates its dampening feature, the enemy ships can no longer flee until the Mantis is destroyed."

No the Mantis just needs to be disabled (not destroyed) and it sounds like it is a ship with little weapons / shields or armor....... so this should be fairly easy.  Even an EMP would work todisablee it or distortion weapons.   That's why as part of a Quantum Enforcement group you may want more than one Mantis.

1 hour ago, Riley Egret said:

Crewe said interdicting it's a highly illegal activity, yet you can buy at any RSI vendor a ship built around a tool whose only purpose is breaking the law.... 

There will be many missions I assume given by the UEE to Interdict Pirates or Vanduul so there will be many cases where it is not "illegal"........... Quantum Enforcement might be a good tool vs this fleet as an example (assuming that you then have enough friends / UEE forces to stop them once you pull them out of Quantum) - see image below...

0buf9m6rxko31.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, VoA said:

Why wouldn't it be a tool to "catch" pirates....... or Vanduul???😲

No the Mantis just needs to be disabled (not destroyed) and it sounds like it is a ship with little weapons / shields or armor....... so this should be fairly easy.  Even an EMP would work todisablee it or distortion weapons.   That's why as part of a Quantum Enforcement group you may want more than one Mantis.

There will be many missions I assume given by the UEE to Interdict Pirates or Vanduul so there will be many cases where it is not "illegal"........... Quantum Enforcement might be a good tool vs this fleet as an example (assuming that you then have enough friends / UEE forces to stop them once you pull them out of Quantum) - see image below...

0buf9m6rxko31.jpg

Well, for your second point, it was a direct quote from the article, so I cannot say if you're right or not, I was just quoting CIG.

For the first and last, I agree, I can use the ship to intercept Vanduul or pirates but you, me, every other player and its cousin knows it's a ship that sells  to people that at 99%  would buy with the intent of pulling out of quantum poor sods and 1%  are crusading against vanduuls, just saying.

On top of that, I remember when ships used to come out a while back, we used to have quite another approach to them.

For example, I remember when the Vanguard was revealed we took it for what it was ingame :a long range bomber to blast Vanduuls, we were considering what kind of targets were most probable ( Void class bombers etc) and how could a navy bomber needed to be effective at that; on the contrary how it related performance wise to, say, a Freelancer, was not a big concern.

Now the lore lover part of me it's somewhat baffled that we're having a ship ( a necessary ship, for a necessary role, no criticism about that) built by RSI of all people, while, as far as I can see now ( maybe I am blind) the by for most probable role is pirating ( aka robbery/murder).

 

I'm not against the ship, it's just it's weird that its RSI that builds them, that's all ( Drake would feel fine for example).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Riley Egret said:

Well, for your second point, it was a direct quote from the article, so I cannot say if you're right or not, I was just quoting CIG.

For the first and last, I agree, I can use the ship to intercept Vanduul or pirates but you, me, every other player and its cousin knows it's a ship that sells  to people that at 99%  would buy with the intent of pulling out of quantum poor sods and 1%  are crusading against vanduuls, just saying.

Well.... in our last Blood Moon Unit Discord meeting (everyone in Imperium is welcome to join us 6PM - PST on Mondays) - we theory-crafted about the RSI Mantis (before we knew the details from the articles).   I mentioned that a lot of new ships / vehicles I am at first not to excited about but then get sucked into it through theory-crafting options / CIG further defining details of the ship / other concept reveals / etc..... as more is known about the ship.

Two recent pick-ups that I pledged for was the Anvil Ballista and the Aegis Nautilis........ really not thinking at first that I would use these or have fun with them...... but after the theory-crafting.......... I am excited about both pledges.

Same thing goes with the RSI Mantis...... up until this morning I have been thinking this is a ship I want to pass on ----- even knowing -------- as I pointed out -------- that is would be great vs the Vanduul and Pirates..... until thinking....... that........ mmmm............ how about pairing this ship with a Nautilus............. set up a Quantum Snare in the middle of a Mine Field...... mmm........ sounds like fun huh?  💥

Now you maybe saying..... well now pirates are going to do that to me running my innocent little solo cargo run........ then I counter that by saying........... that's why you need escort ....... and now...... even more so........ Scout ships (like my favorite Scout the Khartu'al)...... that can perhaps get caught still in the Quantum Snare but then can maneuver still out of range and warn the upcoming cargo convoy about a potential trap!!!  🕸️

It creates awesome strategic and tactical game-play right?????

1 hour ago, Riley Egret said:

I'm not against the ship, it's just it's weird that its RSI that builds them, that's all ( Drake would feel fine for example).

Actually we theory-crafted about his in our Unit meeting as well...... and revealed that RSI per lore invented Quantum Travel..... so it is only fitting that they would be the first / or more advanced..... form of Quantum Enforcement Technology right???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could allways make the Mantis a ship that was designed for the Advocacy.
The current marketing campaign is a bit lacking in regards to the lore. It just creates Hype, nothing else.
Questions like this "why RSI not Drake" etc. could be answered now if they´d release some Lore story etc. alongside the finished picture.

And I am still highly against the idea of anti ship versatility.

This is yet another ship for yet another role that devalues other ships even further.
Pirating is IMPOSSIBLE without a sepcialized quantum interdiction ship like the Mantis. This basically made pirating un-solo-able because your target will just quantumjump away while laughing at you. Or you take a Mantis and hope that you are not outgunned and if you manage to disable your target you cant store most of the loot.
Interdiction NEEDS to be a thing that almost any ship can do but it also needs to be a highly illegal activity in monitored space.

But the train has already left the station regarding that topic. The only satisfying solution would be that a quantum interdiction devices can be swapped with EMP generators so that other ships also gain the ability to do this. AND they need to add interdiction satelites, something similar to a mine that you can deploy from your ship and remotely activate (unlike mines you should not need a special ship for that ... ´s a device you store as cargo and once you want to use it you lin kit to your ship and  just drop it in space). This way you can actualy "solo" pirate in just a Cutlass. After you completed a raid you can either collect the thing to use it again (costs time and may allow others to engage you), destroy the thing (to leave no trace of you behind) or let it be if you need to escape fast (police forces or bounty hunters could scan it to gain some tiny bit of data traces that might be used to identify the ship or the player).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Shifty said:

Questions like this "why RSI not Drake" etc. could be answered now if they´d release some Lore story etc. alongside the finished picture.

Isn't it already in the Lore that RSI invented Quantum travel technology?   Isn't that enough?

10 minutes ago, Shifty said:

And I am still highly against the idea of anti ship versatility.

What do you mean by this.   Should we only have one ship hull that can swap out modules / components / etc.... and perhaps even grow in size like attaching Legos......... so we only need one ship?......... or should it function like the real world where the Jack of All Trades options ....... is usually a master of none........ and as a result specialty items (ships / vehicles / etc...) exist to perform the functions better?

12 minutes ago, Shifty said:

This is yet another ship for yet another role that invalidates other ships even further.

This ship doesn't invalidate ANY ship........ (if you think so name a specific ship please)....... it only adds a logical game-play mechanic to make the game more fun and less predictable with greater strategy and tactics right?

14 minutes ago, Shifty said:

Pirating is IMPOSSIBLE without a sepcialized quantum interdiction ship like the Mantis.

Nonsense........ Pirating occurs all the time in the game........ like camping the fuel depot next to Port Olisar (this used to be the case)...... camping mining nodes (my Prospector got jumped by a player in a Hornet....... and I actually one by causing him to crash by flying low around high terrain areas and having better maneuverability)........ pirates camp reck sites...... camp outposts..........   They don't "NEED" Quantum Enforcement..... it is just one other (among many) avenues for piracy AND for law enforcement = since Law enforcement can also camp drug labs,.... etc.... and provide escort.... etc....

18 minutes ago, Shifty said:

Interdiction NEEDS to be a thing that almost any ship can do but it also needs to be a highly illegal activity in monitored space.

On the contrary it should be rare and expensive.........   and there is no "NEED" for it.......  per above...

20 minutes ago, Shifty said:

But the train has already left the station regarding that topic. The only satisfying solution would be that a quantum interdiction devices can be swapped with EMP generators so that other ships also gain the ability to do this. 

This would literally RUIN the game....... and EMP's should be more prevalent than Quantum Enforcement devices (that affect a much larger area)....... and even then...... EMP devices should be rare and only available on select ships.

Can you imagine how LAME the game would be if every ship had a Quantum Enforcement device and EMP........ it would be like a game of Bumper Cars......... totally LAME...!!!

------------

Sorry but maybe I am taking your position wrong.......... but let me know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, VoA said:

Isn't it already in the Lore that RSI invented Quantum travel technology?   Isn't that enough?

Just because you can doesn´t automaticaly mean you should. To me this is an Advocacy ship, because otherwise it just would not make sense at all.
The device is only usefull for two scenarios law enforcement or breaking ther law. RSI is a reputable company that distances itself from pirating so why sell a ship like this to everyone. If this thing would only be sold to reputable bounty hunters or police forces it would make sense to be RSI. But as it stands now it would be more fitting for a Drake ship, no matter who invented quantum jumping.

Quote

What do you mean by this.   Should we only have one ship hull that can swap out modules / components / etc.... and perhaps even grow in size like attaching Legos......... so we only need one ship?......... or should it function like the real world where the Jack of All Trades options ....... is usually a master of none........ and as a result specialty items (ships / vehicles / etc...) exist to perform the functions better?

What I´m trying to say is that we simply don´t need a specialized ship for every new feature. For some features it makes sense to create a specialized ship, but for others it simply doesn´t. Interdiction is one of those cases. They could have made this a device that you mount instead of missiles, the more you have the bigger the area of effect. You sacrifice something to gain something else.
Star Citizen is currently not doing this. Take the Nautilus fort example. "You need a specialized ship for mine laying", because CIG said so. What is stopping you from just dropping a mine out of your cargo hold and activating it? Nothing. But CIG decided that it is this way, there is no logical reason behind it. A Reclaimer could theoreticaly hold mines in its cargo hold and a NEMO drone it its drone bay.
 

Quote

This ship doesn't invalidate ANY ship........ (if you think so name a specific ship please)....... it only adds a logical game-play mechanic to make the game more fun and less predictable with greater strategy and tactics right?

To further clarify: It´s not the ship that invalidates, it´s the feature that is locked to the ship.
The feature requiring a specialized ship devalues bounty hunting ships like the Hawk or Avenger aswell as pirate ships like the Cutlass.
As a bounty hunter flying those ships you now have to wait until your target has landed or otherwise exited quantum in a location where it can´t escape back into quantum easily. I think that those ships should be able to pull their target out of quantum if they catch up to it or manage to cross its path.
 

Quote

Nonsense........ Pirating occurs all the time in the game........ like camping the fuel depot next to Port Olisar (this used to be the case)...... camping mining nodes (my Prospector got jumped by a player in a Hornet....... and I actually one by causing him to crash by flying low around high terrain areas and having better maneuverability)........ pirates camp reck sites...... camp outposts..........   They don't "NEED" Quantum Enforcement..... it is just one other (among many) avenues for piracy AND for law enforcement = since Law enforcement can also camp drug labs,.... etc.... and provide escort.... etc....

To me a hostile player in a Hornet is just a griefer or someone really bored - at least at the moment. Later on they could also defend their mining spot etc. and their initial goal would be to get rid of you so they either destory you or you flee and they have achieved their goal. Currently they gain nothing from destroying you except a crime stat and rearming costs.

When I´m talking about pirating i mean a pirate that is hunting for the cargo of others. How can a pirate keep you from just quantum jumping away into the unknown? At least the snaring should be something that a fighter/combat ship should be able to do. Keep your target from fleeing so that he does not alert others of your presence if you are in a military scenario, or keep a criminal from escaping police forces - or keep a target from fleeing some pirates.

Quote

On the contrary it should be rare and expensive.........   and there is no "NEED" for it.......  per above...

As mentioned above, at least the snaring part should be widely available among combat ships if they equip certain "modules" instead of missiles, etc.

Quote

This would literally RUIN the game....... and EMP's should be more prevalent than Quantum Enforcement devices (that affect a much larger area)....... and even then...... EMP devices should be rare and only available on select ships.

Can you imagine how LAME the game would be if every ship had a Quantum Enforcement device and EMP........ it would be like a game of Bumper Cars......... totally LAME...!!!

------------

It would ruin the game in its current form. BUT once the player reputation system and law enforcement systems are in full play alongside full persistence it would offer a wider variety of ships that can perform this role. As you mentioned above you could even make the interdiction satelite expensive so that it actually hurts when you have to destroy it.
This way you add gameplay without restricitng it to certain ships and if you own a specilized ship you have some advantages.

 

Quote

Sorry but maybe I am taking your position wrong.......... but let me know?

I never mined an asteroid outside of the PTU because I don´t own a Prospector, Star Citizen needs to step away from issues like this but they keep creating them.
Ship rentals surely will change this but it´s still limited to only this one specific ship for the feature. They did not even announce any new mining ships since they implemented the feature. If you don´t like the Mantis you are out of luck if you want to do the interdiction gameplay for quite a while.

I hope I clarified my standpoint a bit better. Some of the other members here also voiced their opinions about features being locked to ship hulls so I know that I´m not the only one thinking this way. As I said: Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn´t.

But we are highly offtopic so ... as of now I´m also waiting on further information and especialy the pricetag for the Mantis. As it stands now I´d pass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shifty said:

Just because you can doesn´t automaticaly mean you should. To me this is an Advocacy ship, because otherwise it just would not make sense at all.
The device is only usefull for two scenarios law enforcement or breaking ther law. RSI is a reputable company that distances itself from pirating so why sell a ship like this to everyone. If this thing would only be sold to reputable bounty hunters or police forces it would make sense to be RSI. But as it stands now it would be more fitting for a Drake ship, no matter who invented quantum jumping.

Think you are looking at Quantum Enforcement (QE) too narrowly.   

  • Advocacy has nothing to do with QE's vs the Vanduul Right?
  • Advocacy has nothing to do with QE's vs local militia enforcement like in the Neutral system of Lier right?
  • Advocacy has nothing to do with the Murry Cup not wanting anyone Quantuming in or through their races....... yes I know this is far fetch this last one but you can see that it isn't just for Pirates.......
  • etc....

So why is it "not fitting" for RSI ships and more fitting for Drake Ships....... I just outlined a few scenarios where Drake wouldn't make any sense at all (especially vs the Vanduul since Drake doesn't produce military ships)

1 hour ago, Shifty said:

What I´m trying to say is that we simply don´t need a specialized ship for every new feature.

There are still Jack of All Trades ships (many of them)...... even relatively new ones like the Corsair.......... so having a few specialized ships doesn't hurt since you can't really have that many Jack of All Trades ships without them crossing over each other too much (for instance  why get a Corsair when you can get an Andromeda?)

Of late...... the newer concepts........ kind of demand a specialized ship.....

  • Valkyrie - at its size doesn't make much sense to have multiple function other than a troop transport (yes I know people are begging for it to have a cargo function and it still someone does - however it is still considered specialized)
  • Anvil Ballista -- can't really mix it with a tank concept...... or racing vehicle concept right....... has to be specialized relative to its function
  • Aegis Nautilus - while it is a specialized Mining ship....... I would argue that it can be viability used for many functions.
  • Mantis - as a smaller to medium ship..... has to be specialized relative to its large effect function (QE) ----- but maybe a larger (QE) ship can have other functions - like an assault ship function
  • etc....
1 hour ago, Shifty said:

What I´m trying to say is that we simply don´t need a specialized ship for every new feature. For some features it makes sense to create a specialized ship, but for others it simply doesn´t. Interdiction is one of those cases. They could have made this a device that you mount instead of missiles, the more you have the bigger the area of effect. You sacrifice something to gain something else.

Right now QE (like EMPs) are considered a large area of effect needing a large device that takes up the majority of the ship and its power....... like the Mantis..... like the Warlock....... so you couldn't achieve the same broad reaching effect if it was a device mounted on a missile rack (yes I have a Sabre Raven - but there is not evidence that it can be swapped out - since it the ship still has to have special power needs to use the device).

As mentioned maybe a larger QE ship will have other functions other than the QE device.

1 hour ago, Shifty said:

Star Citizen is currently not doing this. Take the Nautilus fort example. "You need a specialized ship for mine laying", because CIG said so. What is stopping you from just dropping a mine out of your cargo hold and activating it? Nothing. But CIG decided that it is this way, there is no logical reason behind it. A Reclaimer could theoreticaly hold mines in its cargo hold and a NEMO drone it its drone bay.

You must have not seen the Star Citizen Live on this....... but you are right there is nothing to stop you from carrying a mine in a cargo ship........ however....... the mines are 12ft x12ft x 12ft (cube) in size........... very large......... thus.......... using a regular cargo ship would be somewhat limiting......... but let's take the Crusader Starlifter as a case scenario..... where it probably could load in a mine vs a Nova Tank.   It still doesn't mean it can be deployed properly...... secured properly....... activated properly......... armed properly..... repaired properly...... deactivated properly..... even if it could also "hold a NEMO drone"...... because it isn't designed or configured properly for these functions.

It's like a Boeing 747 is big enough to house a A10 Warthog's gun but you can't just swap out the 747's nose for a gun mount and the gun / hull strength or mounting integrity / ammunition / firing mechanics / etc...

Image result for a10 warthog gun

Image result for boeing 747

 

 

1 hour ago, Shifty said:

To further clarify: It´s not the ship that invalidates, it´s the feature that is locked to the ship.
The feature requiring a specialized ship devalues bounty hunting ships like the Hawk or Avenger aswell as pirate ships like the Cutlass.
As a bounty hunter flying those ships you now have to wait until your target has landed or otherwise exited quantum in a location where it can´t escape back into quantum easily. I think that those ships should be able to pull their target out of quantum if they catch up to it or manage to cross its path.

No it doesn't invalidate any of these ships since you don't need QE to do bounty hunting........ you just need to know how to track your target then track them down.... many bounties will be caputred even planet size or in a space station....... you don't need to catch them in a QE snare as the only way to get your bounty right?   Thus it doesn't invalidate them at all.... right?

1 hour ago, Shifty said:

To me a hostile player in a Hornet is just a griefer or someone really bored - at least at the moment. Later on they could also defend their mining spot etc. and their initial goal would be to get rid of you so they either destory you or you flee and they have achieved their goal. Currently they gain nothing from destroying you except a crime stat and rearming costs.

Yet you know later on as the game progresses they could have shot me down..... captured my avatar........ captured or salvaged my ship........ and captured the mining cargo that I may have on-board...... and it would have likely been an easy and profitable pirate kill (all the while enforcing or scaring off other miners from an area they may want to claim for their own)

-----------

Since this post is getting long - continued in next one below....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shifty said:

When I´m talking about pirating i mean a pirate that is hunting for the cargo of others. 

My case in point is also for my Mining Cargo right........ there are many ways a pirate can grab cargo including FPS sniping my character as I get out of my ship at at outpost in my attempt to sell my ore to an outpost.

1 hour ago, Shifty said:

How can a pirate keep you from just quantum jumping away into the unknown? At least the snaring should be something that a fighter/combat ship should be able to do. Keep your target from fleeing so that he does not alert others of your presence if you are in a military scenario, or keep a criminal from escaping police forces - or keep a target from fleeing some pirates.

A pirate can damage your ship to the extent (either thrusters / power plant / CPU /etc...) where it could deactivate your Quantum options to get away (yes I know CIG hasn't perfected it but it is their plan).

1 hour ago, Shifty said:

As mentioned above, at least the snaring part should be widely available among combat ships if they equip certain "modules" instead of missiles, etc.

The mechanic itself is too powerful for this type of control....... it is like playing a fantasy game where there's too many Stuns or Knockdowns........ or like I mentioned - it would become like Bumper Cars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2019 at 9:09 AM, Danakar Endeel said:

Personally I had hoped it would be a pylon mounted module that could be equipped on other ships as well. Kinda like how the pylon mounted EMP-generators from the Aegis Raven appear to be something that other ships with the proper size hardpoint should be able to equip as well. As such I would have liked the idea that this 'Mantis' might have been the first ship to come stock with some kind of 'Quantum Interdiction Generator' mounted to a hardpoint while other ships with the right size hardpoint would also be able to equip it.

But after seeing the latest image it doesn't look like it will be a pylon mounted module at all. That's a real letdown in my opinion as a module (like the S4 MaxOx EMP Generator) would have allowed players to use it on other ships as well. Seems like this 'Mantis' is completely purpose-built around this one gimmick.  

Looks like this will just be another (likely overpriced) singleseat fighter with a ship-locked one-trick-pony gimmick that can't be used by any other ship. A real missed opportunity if that will be the case in my opinion. 😒

I’m pleased that the “Quantum Snare/Inhibitor” device requires a dedicated ship, as opposed to a pylon-mounted weapon or device that virtually any ship can equip. Perhaps CIG will introduce anti-QJ weapons in the future, similar to the idea of EMP torpedoes or distortion missiles.

However, in terms of a device that projects a sustained QJ inhibitor field across an area several kilometres in diametre, which pulls ships out of a quantum jump, I think it should require a dedicated ship, similar to the Avenger Warlock or Sabre Raven. If anything, I wish the Mantis was larger, like at least the size of a Constellation. I suspect that the Mantis will be the smallest ship capable of equipping a QJ Inhibitor, however, there will be larger ships that can equip it. For example, perhaps there could be a variant of the Polaris corvette that replaces its hangar bay with a more powerful QJ Inhibitor that has a wider area of effect than the Mantis.

My concern regarding the Mantis is what price CIG will be selling it for, because if they price it high — which I suspect they will — then it will be P2W and cater to rich douchebags who love to grief in the PU. I predict that the minimum price CIG will sell it for is $250 warbond; the same price as the Eclipse stealth bomber. But I wouldn’t be surprised if CIG prices it around $375 warbond, like the Esperia Prowler, to ensure artificial rarity because it’s so expensive.

I suspect we’ll find out the Mantis’ price point tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Reavern said:

I’m pleased that the “Quantum Snare/Inhibitor” device requires a dedicated ship, as opposed to a pylon-mounted weapon or device that virtually any ship can equip. Perhaps CIG will introduce anti-QJ weapons in the future, similar to the idea of EMP torpedoes or distortion missiles.

Agree + I think we'll see Quantum Enforcement (QE) missiles / torpedoes come into the game that can target a specific ship and knock out there Quantum Drive for a period of time (but there should be options like powering the unit down before it is hit - like an EMP) .   This should only work vs one target and may require a bigger payload (like Torp vs missile) or multiple hits on larger ships that may have larger Quantum drives.

However anything that is going to affect an Area of Effect should require a ship device (Not just a pylon device) per your quote below....👍

9 hours ago, Reavern said:

However, in terms of a device that projects a sustained QJ inhibitor field across an area several kilometres in diametre, which pulls ships out of a quantum jump, I think it should require a dedicated ship, similar to the Avenger Warlock or Sabre Raven. If anything, I wish the Mantis was larger, like at least the size of a Constellation. I suspect that the Mantis will be the smallest ship capable of equipping a QJ Inhibitor, however, there will be larger ships that can equip it. For example, perhaps there could be a variant of the Polaris corvette that replaces its hangar bay with a more powerful QJ Inhibitor that has a wider area of effect than the Mantis.

It is likely that the Cutlass will also have a QE device as a Variant....... and larger ships like the Hammerhead, etc.... since they and already QE in game for NPCs........ but agree with you that a Mantis / Cutlass should be the smallest ship ...... with the possible exception of an Avenger (since the new Avenger is now bigger than theoriginall)

9 hours ago, Reavern said:

My concern regarding the Mantis is what price CIG will be selling it for, because if they price it high — which I suspect they will — then it will be P2W and cater to rich douchebags who love to grief in the PU. I predict that the minimum price CIG will sell it for is $250 warbond; the same price as the Eclipse stealth bomber. But I wouldn’t be surprised if CIG prices it around $375 warbond, like the Esperia Prowler, to ensure artificial rarity because it’s so expensive.

I suspect we’ll find out the Mantis’ price point tomorrow.

I am expecting it to be less than $150 since it is a specialized ship without much Armament.    Compare it to the Warlock as an example but a QE device is more powerful and requires (probably) more power / components / etc.... than an EMP device.

 

We'll see soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By Gustav.Henrik
      Hello! 
      I am taking any interesting offers into consideration. Im looking for 250USD in store credit. Please state your offer with PP fees included. I'm looking to pay somewhere between 70-80% so 200$ is my max. 
      Thanks in advance. :)
    • By Weehamster
      LAST EDIT: 11/Oct/2019
      Hi everyone /
      I have images/gifs of ships/vehicles that are either flyable or in concept, development, re-worked or from Star Citizen lore.
      There are also many other categories, including anything from Star Systems to Characters to Ship/FPS Equipment.
      I constantly add more to the albums so don't be afraid to come back here anytime for the latest images.
      Please Enjoy.
      VEHICLES:
      SHIPS
      LAND VEHICLES
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      COMPONENTS:
      SHIP WEAPONS - GUNS
      SHIP WEAPONS - MISSILES / TORPEDOES / MINES
      OTHER SHIP COMPONENTS
      FIRST PERSON WEAPONS
      FIRST PERSON WEAPONS - ATTACHMENTS
      OTHER FIRST PERSON COMPONENTS
      -------------------------------------------- BONUS --------------------------------------------
      CHARACTERS:
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      PLACES: 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      GAMEPLAY:
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      SQUADRON 42:
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      OTHER:
       
    • By [≡☠≡] フの乇 ムノレレノム刀
      I have RSI ORION like this. For sale at $460.
      Included: 

      - Space Ship RSI ORION
      - 72 Months Insurance
      - VFG Industrial Hangar
       

       
      Please read the Terms & Conditions of Service:
      Transactions through PayPal (Verified PayPal only). All prices are final (includes PayPal fees). If you are interested - leave a comment or/and send me private message. Payment via PayPal FF. If you are unsure about the ship or have any questions, feel free to ask. You must own a copy of Star Citizen, and are required to have an account in order to accept item (ship/upgrade). Item will be delivered to the buyer's PayPal email address. You can claim the item by clicking on the link provided in the email about "gift"  and sign in your RSI account. Be careful to be logged into the correct RSI account when you redeem your email about "gift" containing the transmitted ship. Tracking is provided by "Hangar Log" on RSI website and will be used as a proof of delivery. 
    • By VoA
      We have a generic ship thread for other Ship Manufacturers and their Lore so creating this thread 
       
×
×
  • Create New...