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2 hours ago, Reavern said:

For example, a question that I had, along with many others, was HOW and WHY the M2's heavy armour reduces its cargo capacity? It doesn't make sense,

Agree it doesn't make sense "why" the M2 has less cargo...

2 hours ago, Reavern said:

So why does the Gemini have less cargo/liquid capacity?

Agree they need to address this with the Gemini as well...

 

2 hours ago, Reavern said:

As I commented about the Hercules, the cargo reduction on the military model is very game-y. It's apparently not enough that the military model costs more, thereby justifying the increased price, it has to carry less cargo for "game balance".

Yes it is for game balance (obviously) - but I think what we are experiencing now is that CIG doesn't have the resources to make structural changes to the model of each ship.... and we see this in the new Razor EX and LX ---- they are really just paint job differences at this point.   I am fine with these "not being correctly different from the base model"....... for now..... not expecting CIG to deal with these issues now ------ as long as they plan on fixing them in the future.

 

 

2 hours ago, Reavern said:

the Taurus model of the Constellation gained cargo capacity and sacrificed the swing-out wing missile hardpoints, because there wasn't room for them. The Freelancer MIS lost some cargo room because of its extra missiles and auto-loading system. The Retaliator substituted the bomb bays for cargo bays on the Base model, which is why it can't carry bombs/torpedoes. Those ship design changes made sense.

Agree - this is when CIG made the correct structural changes to the variants (note the Taurus also lost the Snub bay as well for the increased cargo).......... but also note that the Taurus, Freelancer MIS and modules for the Tali are not actually playable..... where the other variants (that are really just paint jobs and spreadsheet ship value changes) will likely be flyable since it is easier for CIG to change.   Again I fine with this for now.... ----- as long as they plan on fixing them in the future.

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As for the Q&A for the Hercules confiring its primary role (being the only ship to carry Tanks) - I am fine with this as well.

I think people really have to pay attention to the direction CIG is heading for game-play (at least what will come first - most likely).   I haven't pulled the trigger yet on a Starlifter but I am really close and moving closer (and have convinced a number of our unit members to either get them or consider them).   These are just some of the big benefits to the Starlifter that people aren't considering still....

  • More likely than not we will see a great deal more of planetary content than interstellar content within the next couple years of SC (later that will change though).  Remember CIG is also pushing land ownership, outpost building, many land vehicles + bikes....
  • Hercules are the only ships that carry tanks and if the content is going to be mainly planet-side (at least at first) - then those relying on space based ships will be at a disadvantage
  • Hercules is designed for atmospheric flight and will perform much better in atmosphere than other ships its size
  • CIG's recent discussion and addition to VTOLs to ships point to the fact that there will be a different flight model for atmospheric flight - so space based ships will perform much worse and maybe sitting ducks for ground based attacks more-so than ships built specifically to maneuver better in atmosphere.
  • Having all turrets facing down on the Hecules is actually a bonus for the ship.... since any turrets facing up would be wasted in a ground assault (but they would require escort if attacked from the air - no biggy since many transport ships should need escort).   Example a Tali couldn't use most of its turrets vs the ground and its VTOLs don't allow it to fly up-side-down to use them in atmosphere (with gravity)
  • The A2 will be the penultimate planetside attack ship...... and will have a much greater effect vs ground targets than even the Polaris or Hammerhead.   The MOABs will likely have significantly greater damage (maybe flattening a mountain) than any torpedo (most likely only flattening a building not a mountain).... ++ the Cluster Bombs will destroy large swaths of area

===========

Basically if you like or plan to be good at transporting..... I see the Hercules as being a great buy for people that like this type of mission (and why some in our unit picked them up).   I still do have transport ships still like the Caterpillar and Banu MM...... I did used to have all the Hull ships and ended up CCUing all of them.... and why I haven't pull the trigger on a Hercules is because transportation isn't something that I want to focus too much of my fleet into.    The A2 is something more I would consider however since it will be a game changer planet-side for any planetary assaults.... but if you are a trucker I think you'll be missing out big time by not having a C2 (or M2 if you want higher risk trucking)..... since much of the game-play will be planet-side (at least more-so early on)

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One thing I am wondering really, life support. Did the remember about one itchy-bithy thing the sheer number of players on board. Say 4 rovers and 2 tanks 30 + 2 players :D. Of course they were saying if they went about the max crew there will be a lack of oxygen. 2 is the max crew for C2 and carring 32 can increase the numbers the players to 44 with vehicle seats. Heh. I'm laughingif the entire ship didn't respond as the whole party is brain dead shortly after take off. It's only a small one and sure it will be spotted before release.

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58 minutes ago, Devil Khan said:

One thing I am wondering really, life support. Did the remember about one itchy-bithy thing the sheer number of players on board. Say 4 rovers and 2 tanks 30 + 2 players :D. Of course they were saying if they went about the max crew there will be a lack of oxygen. 2 is the max crew for C2 and carring 32 can increase the numbers the players to 44 with vehicle seats. Heh. I'm laughingif the entire ship didn't respond as the whole party is brain dead shortly after take off. It's only a small one and sure it will be spotted before release.

One of the questions I posted on Spectrum about the Hercules was if it would have a Dropship module, similar to the Retaliator. But it didn't get many upvotes. Also, based on the Hercules Q&A, it was far too specific a question -- I kinda doubt that CIG even considered that possibility.

When CIG released the Retaliator modules, there was no mention of the Tali's life support system being able to handle 16 passengers. The "realistic" oxygen system was added later -- fairly recently. So how does the Tali support a +300% increase in the number of people aboard? The only explanation I can think of is that the Dropship Module itself comes equipped with a secondary life support system for the passengers. (Again, has CIG even thought about this?! :huh:)

Returning to your point about Hercules, it's unclear if and/or how the Hercules can transport passengers for ground assaults. The C2 has a crew of 2 and the M2 has a crew of 3. If the cargo hold was crammed to capacity with people, it could probably hold at least 50. I can't imagine the Hercules' life support system is designed to support 50 extra breathers.

Also, the whole point of the Tali's Dropship Module was that the passengers needed seats with restraining devices. How are the passengers secured aboard the Hercules? There's no mention of extra seating for passengers, which definitely should've been a question in the Q&A! I can't imagine I'm the first one to think of this. Someone must've asked that question about the Hercules. But it's not in the Q&A. And CIG hasn't addressed the oxygen or seating problems for the Hercules, which makes me wonder if they've even thought about it.

I doubt it because CIG seemed taken by surprise by the question about the Cluster Bombs being used to create minefields in space. CIG admitted that was something they'd have to think about. If they had to think about that question -- and admitted to it -- I doubt they've thought through these aspects of the Hercules' design.

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22 hours ago, VoA said:

As for the Q&A for the Hercules confiring its primary role (being the only ship to carry Tanks) - I am fine with this as well.

I think people really have to pay attention to the direction CIG is heading for game-play (at least what will come first - most likely).   I haven't pulled the trigger yet on a Starlifter but I am really close and moving closer (and have convinced a number of our unit members to either get them or consider them).   These are just some of the big benefits to the Starlifter that people aren't considering still....

You're probably right about the move to ground gameplay, but I didn't get into this game for ground gameplay.  That's just a bonus!  I originally backed this game because I have always loved Chris Robert's SPACE games.  I wanted a space game to bring together components of all his previous games and make them for the PC gaming of today.  I still believe Star Citizen/Squadron 42 will be that game.  Someday.  

But to me the C2 is just another cargo ship--one of the better looking ones, and it just happens to be able to also carry the biggest land vehicles too.  I don't own a tonk, or any other ground vehicle (once I apply my Hercules C2 CCU on my Aquila).  I'll likely get some in game, but ground gameplay is just second to my priorities.  When I'm not dragging cargo through the galaxy I'll be hunting bounties and pirates.

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28 minutes ago, Buckaroo said:

You're probably right about the move to ground gameplay, but I didn't get into this game for ground gameplay.  That's just a bonus!  I originally backed this game because I have always loved Chris Robert's SPACE games.  I wanted a space game to bring together components of all his previous games and make them for the PC gaming of today.  I still believe Star Citizen/Squadron 42 will be that game.  Someday.  

But to me the C2 is just another cargo ship--one of the better looking ones, and it just happens to be able to also carry the biggest land vehicles too.  I don't own a tonk, or any other ground vehicle (once I apply my Hercules C2 CCU on my Aquila).  I'll likely get some in game, but ground gameplay is just second to my priorities.  When I'm not dragging cargo through the galaxy I'll be hunting bounties and pirates.

I'm also more interested in space combat, which is why I backed Star Citizen, but I'm glad that SC will have ground combat. In the early days, I thought SC would have basic FPS combat and small planet environments, approx. the size of the surface levels of the Mass Effect games. I expected that ground combat would be a post-launch enhancement. I'm pleased that CIG has developed procedurally generated planets, base/outpost building, and combat vehicles, but as VoA pointed out, CIG seems to be shifting focus to the ground instead of expanding star systems. The PU is limited to the Crusader planetary system, which is just one planet in the Stanton System. Completing the entire Stanton System isn't even on the Roadmap for 2018!

It seems like CIG is fleshing out planet-based content and ground combat mechanics to give players more to do in the absence of more space content. I'd prefer space, but planets can still be fun. The reason why I'm not upset about the focus on ground combat is that it should relate to EVA space combat and ship boarding. Ground combat is a stepping stone. Supporting ground combat will probably mean that CIG will prioritize the Redeemer rework and hopefully the Esperia Prowler, because they're dropships. I'm looking forward to flying my Prowler. B)

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On 5/9/2018 at 1:47 PM, Devil Khan said:

BoredGamer is talking thru his ass tbh.

I'd listen to him before I'd consider your POV, because I've followed him long enough to know when he's full of it. You, you seem to be negative most of the time, just because you can be. That's ok, but if he's full of it, tell us why instead of giving us your opinion that he is.

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On 5/26/2018 at 3:54 PM, Reavern said:

I doubt they've thought through these aspects of the Hercules' design.

I often broach these sorts of questions to the devs (with no response) because sometimes it is clear they have VERY limited knowledge about aspects of modern warfare, like clusters, FAE, non-lethal weapons (better for inner ship combat)

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Jump point released today with a section about the Hercules Starlifter. 

Seems CIG actually started with the M2 version as the base, and created the C2 and A2 off of it.  Doesn't answer all the questions, but kind of wonder now will that top level become wasted space for the C2 version?

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1 hour ago, Buckaroo said:

but kind of wonder now will that top level become wasted space for the C2 version?

Maybe like the flight deck area in a C-5, used for crew or passengers.

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3 hours ago, Gremlich said:

Maybe like the flight deck area in a C-5, used for crew or passengers.

...or just doesn't exist to allow additional stacked cargo.  This is what I'm expecting with the huge variance of cargo capacity between the C2 and M2.  Perhaps there will just be side catwalks to access critical components of the ship on the C2...  Wish we had more details!

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all Hercules are to expensive for what they do...except maybe the c2, the BMM has 5 times the cargo (with the info we have atm) for 50 bucks more?

however, the M2 makes a nice base to upgrade to Hull E or anything over $500

with the A2 you could upgrade to a polaris (+$50) or a 890(+$190) and still have the tank(~$100)

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This is a good video (nothing new but like this guy's videos in general)

+++ Last few moments to buy one if you are considering getting one - sale is still on....

I have been going back-and-forth on this ship.... and finally invested in an A2 Warbond :wub: - the price difference compared to a CCU + the Nova Tank.... finally got me to invest (guess that CIG marketing actually works :P) - don't think I'll ever CCU it but if I wanted to it is worth $700 already even though I paid $600 + got a free Nova tank (value at $105) ;)

 

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I know, I know, we're a LONG WAYS off from ever seeing the Hercules in the PU, but I've been looking over the HOLO viewer, looking at pictures and trying to determine what that top level above the cargo area would be good use for on the C2 and M2.  So far as I can tell, only the A2 has any use for that area with seats in that section for the remote turrets.  Even then, it still seems like there's a lot of open space up there.  Both the C2 and M2 have the controls for their remote turrets in the cockpit area (supposedly) which currently shows 3 seats in the cockpit alone.  I think it looks like they could actually fit 4 seats up there if CIG wanted to (and hope they do for accessing other ship functions).

6ogI3HJ.png

Getting back to that top section, it's void of anything in it.  It's wasted space, especially with that big "hump" running down the middle.  The C2 promo shots show the roof of the cargo area there too, which begs the question of what they'd actually put up there.  It's not like this is a luxury ship, so there's no cabins/seats to add (although that would be kinda cool!).  Flatten the hump creates a huge area to do some possibly cool things, but doesn't really fit the description of the ship which is to be a cargo hauler.

The other option is to open the area up.  Getting rid of just the hump doesn't add a ton of extra space to the Cargo Deck while leaving the "catwalks" around it.  Removing the walking surfaces around the hump removes the second deck altogether and would free up a lot of space for cargo.  CIG would have to leave a bit of a walking space between the elevator to the neck to be able to access the cockpit, though--kind of like a loft area overseeing the cargo below.

Check out these screenshots I took showing the Top Deck with a cut-out also showing the Cargo Deck below and then another from the Cargo Deck looking up:

sMAVbm3.png

rk6ZjSA.png

I'm really excited to see what they do with this ship when it gets to white-box phase, which will likely be a long ways off.  Till then I'll be dreaming!  Here's a few more shots I took while playing around in the HOLO viewer:

qbVQ8OB.png

RPLBJep.png

v7p3PIf.png

WuuDxxC.png

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I upgraded my starfarer to the C2, and  a year later i dont have any regrets... im sure its going to meet expectations so im not to concerned right now. i plan to do some hauling of vehicles and cargo so this will allow me to do both at the same time. Not necessarily looking for combat or doing combat missions, strictly exploration and transport, so i dont need to upgrade to the A2 or M2. 

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1 hour ago, Capt. Apollo said:

I upgraded my starfarer to the C2, and  a year later i dont have any regrets... im sure its going to meet expectations so im not to concerned right now. i plan to do some hauling of vehicles and cargo so this will allow me to do both at the same time. Not necessarily looking for combat or doing combat missions, strictly exploration and transport, so i dont need to upgrade to the A2 or M2. 

I also think that more Citizens have .... more Starfarers than C2's which will help you from a suppy/demand perspective ++++ there will be more planetary content available earlier on in the verse more so than interstellar (or long distance fuel needs)......... but eventually Starfarers will be extremely important (just not for a few years most likely compared to a C2)

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Fuel... Starfarer should have the key move here (unfortunately level designers should be shot).

However it's apples and oranges really. You can't compare them nor saying which is better unless you specifically match cargo space or fuel space. Also, just because  it may show a lkot of base starfarer, it doesn't show them with CCUs and atm we don't even have a full system yet, let alone several dozen promised ( 96 I think probably more). Anyway I have Starfarer and Hercules C2 :P.    

 

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4 hours ago, Devil Khan said:

However it's apples and oranges really.

That does not preclude though theory-crafting which ship will have the most play options / potential profit / etc.... based on known factors with the early PU (like planetary content being far greater in options and supply vs interstellar travel and long range fuel needs... vs .... just refiling in populated UEE systems at stations, etc....) ----- I also have a Gemini and a A2 but I am conceding that the Starfarer won't shine for awhile until more systems (and long range exploration) becomes available in the PU - which they won't for some time still....

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