M50 vs. 350r

[Maverick]

Hey comrades!
 
I just wanted to start a comparison thread for the 2 racers so far known. I already own a M50, so I won't buy the 350r, but I'm sure to get one ingame. The only downside of the 300i for me always was the single thruster layout, which is "corrected" with this variant.
I attached the stats from the ship information compilation thread. Just looking at them, the M50 should easily outrun the 350r, not taking into consideration pilot skills and length of the race. I can imagine that the 2 TR3s need way less fuel than 2 TR4s, so the 350r should need less refuelling.
Any more thoughts?

 

350r
 
Builder: ORIGIN JUMPWORKS GmbH
Mass (empty): 17,000 KG
Upgrade Capacity: 6
Cargo Capacity: 5 tonnes
Engine-Modifiers: 2?
Max. Class: Fusion (4)
Thrusters: 2x TR4 (Hammer Propulsion HM 4.3), 12x TR1 (10x Origin Scalpel Precision, 2xOrigin Omni Precision)
Shields: Gorgon Defender AllStop (Max-Shield 3)
Hardpoints- 2 x Class 1: Equipped 2 x A&R Omnisky III Laser Cannon 1 x Class 2: None Equipped 2 x Class 3: None Equipped
 
M50
Builder: ORIGIN JUMPWORKS GmbH
Mass (empty): 14,000 Kg
Upgrade Capacity: 5
Cargo Capacity: 3 tonnes
Engine-Modifiers: 3
Max. Class: Fusion  (4)
Thrusters: 2 x TR4, 8 x TR2

Shields: ? (Max-Shield 3)
Hardpoints- 2 x Class 2: Equipped 2 x Kroneg AS-44 Needle Repeater Laser 2 x Class 3: Equipped 2 x Talon Devastator (HS) missiles
 
€dit: Maybe I'll change the threadname into "Racer stats" or so, when more racers get revealed.

[Black Fox]

Just looking at speed, the main thruster to weight ratio is 2 x TR4's for 14,000 kg for the M50 and 2xTR 3's for the 17,000 kg 350r.  Clearly unless they change the stats the M50 will be faster out of the box.  The other things to look at is the engine Modifiers, the M50 has 3 while the 350r isn't listed, but if it has 300i stats it will have at most 2.  Meaning that whoever has the most engine upgrade spots can really tweek their engine and increase speed/ efficiency/ fuel consumption.  Like you brought up fuel consumption rate will go to the 350r, so she'll probably have some endurance in a race.

[Stoff]

I guess that the M50 isnt going to be able to haul as much, or atleast less than the 350r and it would seemsodd that 2 tonnes differense in cargosize doesnt matter. M50 is prolly going to be faster forever, but 350r might be more durable for the longer run, and able to carry more stuff on it. <--- got the 350r out of the two.

[CyberianK]

If they have racing they would have to balance the m50 and 350r somehow.

Otherwise all racers will only take m50s. Then the racing variant 350r would be pretty useless because unseen in racing.

 

Maybe they do it by enabling bigger engines (generator) for the 350r. So the m50 would have better acceleration but the 350r could maybe have more top speed.

[Stoff]

Im pretty confident that they will balance the racers when and if they notice that the majority picks one and not the other etc etc. We shall see.

[novastorm]

Maybe there will be different races for different models. So you'll have a 350r cup and an M50 cup, just like today you have a Clio cup and a Fiesta Cup. That way the vehicles are all the same in a race and it really depends on the driver (or pilot in the case of SC) skill to take the win.

[Stoff]

But still, the different racerships must all have some kind of edge in order to make them viable, else all will just get the one with the best stats, right?

[Reavern]

I think it's obvious that the M50 has the best starting stats as a Racer. It's the lightest ship (except the P52 snubfighter), can equip 2 TR4 main thrusters, thereby giving it unmatched power-to-weight ratio.

 

I'm certain that the M50 will be a cockpit-only ship, like the Hornet and Vanduul Scythe, and not an open cabin ship with onboard living quarters like the 350r. A racer doesn't need a bed. The 350r also has a cargo hold, which a racer doesn't need either. The M50 can carry 3 tons of cargo, but I predict that there will be a "drag racer" M50 variant with the cargo capacity removed to reduce its weight, like the 350r. Perhaps another variant will convert the 3 tons of cargo space into extra fuel storage for long distance endurance races.

 

I agree with novastorm that the official race events in Star Citizens will probably be organized into different racing classes for specific ships. There's probably a 350r class and a M50 class. Possibly classes for every ship in the game, because even Aurora and Freelancer pilots might want to race.

 

There should also be an "unrestricted class" wherein any ship can compete. This would allow racers to test and compare their customized ships against each other. Perhaps there are configurations of the 350r that will be superior to a M50. Perhaps it's possible to strip down a Constellation to the bare frame and use its powerful TR6 engines to smoke the competition.

[Stoff]

Yes, i do realize that the 350r has a bed, but seeing that the ship itself is marketed as a racer i just thought perhaps they will have some ships that will be mostly used for just that, racing. And then i though, hey,, there are different vehicles in the world as it is, but they all have different perks. As i see it now, the only perk a 350r would have atm would be that it doesnt consume as much fuel, right? TIme will tell, one thing tho.. 3000 kg extra in space, is it really that much?  

[Reavern]

I'm uncertain if you're referring to 3 tons of mass removed from the 350r, the 3 tons reduction in the 350r's cargo capacity, the 3 tons difference in mass between the M50 and 350r, or the M50's 3 tons cargo capacity.

 

Regardless, 3 tons of mass is significant in regards to optimal speed for racing. An empty 350r should beat a 350r loaded with 3 tons of cargo in a straight-up drag race. I suppose in a turning race, a skilled pilot could compensate for the increased mass, but it certainly wouldn't make their job easier.

 

That's why IF I was interested in racing, I'd buy the M50 instead of the 350r. Even if the M50 isn't offered again, I'd rather buy the M50 in-game and pay for insurance than buy a LTI-ed 350r now for $100.

 

I'm much more interested in using a M50 as a fast-interceptor rather than a racer, which is why I'm not interested in the 350r, because of its weaker weapons.

[AstroJak]

keep in mind Reavern that the 350r standard weapons, shields, etc are all stock and can be upgraded. so with that said as an interceptor the 350r would be a better pick simply because it has more capacity then the m50.

now if we are simply talking racing it would be hard for a 350r to bet the small quicker m50. once we start the dogfight mod i have every intention of upgrading my 350r engine for increased power and seeing how my connie's weapons work out on the 350r ship.

as far as racing goes, i could see the 350r being used for endurnce racing like a rally race rather then say nascar or iindie which would better suit the m50.

[Reavern]

The 350r only has greater weapon capacity because of ONE additional weapon hardpoint compared to the M50, which I don't consider a significant advantage. The 350r has 2 Class-1 hardpoints and 1 Class-2, whereas the M50 has 2 Class-2 hardpoints. They both have 2 Class-3 missile hardpoints; the 350r has 2 missiles each; the M50 could have 2 or 4 each -- but probably 2.

 

I'm confident that the M50's two Class-2 articulated weapon mounts will be more advantageous and deadlier than the 350r's fixed laser cannons, and single Class-2 cannon mount. I expect that the 350r and M50 will be so fast and agile, it'll be difficult to keep their noses pointed at their targets, which is why the M50's two articulated gun mounts should be superior to the 350r's single.

 

Also, the M50 is almost certainly smaller than the 350r, making it a smaller target to hit.

 

I don't mean to bash the 350r. I'm simply explaining why I've chosen not to buy a LTI-ed 350r during its limited availability, and why I'd rather wait-and-see if the M50 is offered again.

[AstroJak]

I understand your points and appreciate them, you where however a bit blunt in your explanation before with others and preference does play a big part in choosing which ship you want to altimately be in. I would like however to chanllenge you to a freindly dogfight if/when you get that pip-squeek fighter (m50). i have some definate ideas on how to upgrade the 350r to utilize its speed but add a big boy sized punch!!!

p.s. i'm not really concerned about you being blunt... i am most times... you just made me rethink my impulse purchase!

cheers

[Reavern]

It's certainly not my intention to make anyone regret purchasing one ship or another. I just like explaining my reasoning for my decisions. I suppose sometimes my logic can make others re-think their choices.

 

Admittedly, I bought the Aurora LX more or less on impulse -- and to support CIG, of course. I was so excited about seeing the Aurora that I had to have it, despite that I had no interest in the starter ship before. Another reason was because it was manufactured by RSI, its parts are supposed to be interchangeable with the Constellation. It occurs to me now that whatever weapons, subsystems, upgrades, and mods the Aurora LX has, the Constellation probably has the same or better. It's more likely the Aurora LX would benefit from transferring parts from the Constellation, rather than Aurora parts to the Constellation.

 

Regardless, I don't regret pledging for the Aurora LX. And you shouldn't regret or re-think pledging for the 350r, because it's an amazing looking Racing ship.

[Maverick]

@Reavern: Your last sentence would be the main reason for me to purchase a 350r, if I wouldn't already have a M50. A 300i with dual thrusters? STFU and take my money.^^

 

Still, the M50 mounts 2 x Kroneg AS-44 Needle Repeater Laser where the 350r has 2 x A&R Omnisky III Laser Cannon. I don't know, but "Needle Repeater Lasers" sounds like being stung by a mosquito, where "A&R Omnisky III Laser Cannon" sounds more like being stung by a wasp or a hornet, at least for me.^^

Guess we'll have to wait for the stats of the weapons before really knowing it. It's just plain guessing now.

[Reavern]

I think that the "Needle Repeater" laser is specially designed for the M50, and has a significantly higher rate of fire than standard lasers. I expect that will be essential for the M50, because it will be so fast and agile that it's firing window will be extremely small, so it needs to let loose as many shots as possible.

 

Considering that the 350r's A&R Omnisky III laser cannons are downgraded from the 300i's Omnisky VI's, weapon power consumption from the ship's engine powerplant is a major factor; the more power the weapons use, the slower the ship's speed.

 

I expect that the Needle Repeater laser probably uses less power per shot, and therefore inflicts less damage per shot, but its high rate of fire more than makes up for its weak stopping power -- death by a thousand cuts.

 

If I were to balance the M50's Needle Repeater lasers, they would draw a significant amount of power while firing and recharging -- possibly even more than conventional lasers -- but they'd have "regenerative capacitors" that would keep them fully charged and ready to fire without drawing as much power from the engines. While the M50 was flying and maneuvering, the weapons wouldn't draw any power, so the thrusters could operate at full burn. But when the M50 opened fire, the weapons would rapidly drain the engine's power output, causing the ship to slow down. The longer the Needle Repeater lasers are fired, the slower M50 would fly. So a M50 pilot would have to be a crack shot and fire in short bursts. Because if they sprayed-and-prayed, they'd slow to a crawl and get lit up by the enemy.

 

I realize that's a dream, and probably too complicated. N00b pilots would find it too restrictive and frustrating, and wouldn't want to fly the M50 -- CIG doesn't want that. But that's how I'd prefer it, because it would make the M50 more unique, and M50 aces would be an elite group of Needle Assassins.

[AstroJak]

OK, your all going to laugh and say it can't be done... but after i max out my engine upgrade (more power for guns and shields) for my 350r i'm going to change the weapon loadout to;

Class 1 - 2X - Klaus & Werrer CF-117 Laser Gatling

Class 2 - A&R Pike IV Neutron Gun (nose)

Class 3 - 2X Behring Judge MIssile (F or F)

it might be a bit of a challenge switching back and forth from shield - weapons - speed outputs but with some of those Merge tactics i've been reading up on, i think it could be a deadly combo. Caveat, we dont know what the power consumption is for any of this equipment nor the ratio of damage it inflicts.

[Reavern]

Powerful-looking loadout -- although we have no idea of the relative strength of Lasers vs. Neutron Guns vs. Mass Drivers vs. anything else.

 

I think the Origin reduced the 350r's laser cannons to Omnisky III's for a good reason, so if you want a fast and fully loaded 350r, you're definitely going to need to install a high output engine, probably with an overdriver and/or overclocker. Otherwise your weapons are going to drain all of your ship's power and you'll be no better off than if you were flying a 325a Interdictor.

 

I hope your Killer 350r works for you, Drock.

[AstroJak]

Powerful-looking loadout -- although we have no idea of the relative strength of Lasers vs. Neutron Guns vs. Mass Drivers vs. anything else.

 

I think the Origin reduced the 350r's laser cannons to Omnisky III's for a good reason, so if you want a fast and fully loaded 350r, you're definitely going to need to install a high output engine, probably with an overdriver and/or overclocker. Otherwise your weapons are going to drain all of your ship's power and you'll be no better off than if you were flying a 325a Interdictor.

 

I hope your Killer 350r works for you, Drock.

Bother i hope so as well but its all a game!  wait... is this the game (Life) or is SC the game? i could get lost here!! That 300i promo vid using "in game" action is still blowing my mind. If thats what the "in game" scenes look like now, 2 yrs out from completion, it could be tough to diseminate between the two.

p.s. Reavern - how do you like my new sig? this one i crafter myself!!!

[Reavern]

Your new sig's pretty cool, Drock. Is Jak Messani your in-game avatar's name?

 

The lettering is awesome; so different and futuristic. The character pic looks familiar. Is that the sniper from the Mass Effect 3 trailer?

[AstroJak]

Your new sig's pretty cool, Drock. Is Jak Messani your in-game avatar's name?

 

The lettering is awesome; so different and futuristic. The character pic looks familiar. Is that the sniper from the Mass Effect 3 trailer?

Thank you... you have now presented an adequite amount of appreciatation for my new found skills as a designer!!

 

I like the name Jak and Messani is the last name for the mercenary in ME2-3, a total bad ass. Lastely you are correct, the image is also from mass effect which is my most favority RPG.

[rotorax]

Although I like you new sig, I think you´ve got some issue with transparency, cause your background image is overlapping the border. Be sure to save it as transparent png and turn on the background layer in template file.

[CyberianK]

I had an overlapping image too.

 

What I did is only save the signature from the template without the background as PNG, then cut the background and combine it again.

[AstroJak]

Although I like you new sig, I think you´ve got some issue with transparency, cause your background image is overlapping the border. Be sure to save it as transparent png and turn on the background layer in template file.

Rotoax, I'll try that...

[Maverick]

And the mystery is "solved":

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/forum/showthread.php?25215-ORIGIN-300-SERIES-FAQ-relevant-information-for-the-300i-315p-325a-350r

 

The 350r is, "out of the box", faster than the M50 (however that should be possible). Fully upgraded the M50 is faster than the 350r.