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On ‎16‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 8:15 PM, Irres said:

Ok to clarify only speaking for myself not the org view:  (also mostly just theory)

1) Hunting pirates may sound noble....but where is the profit/cost offset?  Sounds blunt I know, but as any "theoretical" anti-pirate organization, why would I take on the costs of eradicating pirates, if there is no profit to be made or at least good will and offsetting costs?  I mean I am making enemies with a group, and potential friends of that group, that I don't necessarily need to be enemies with.

2) Assuming pirates will be dumb, you have done them a lot of favors.  Never underestimate any opponent, these are not actual pirates with no education or reasoning ability but people much like you and I on the other side.  If you can "out think", they can too.

3) Anti Pirate means we do not take part in pirate activities nor do we condone them in our ranks.  It does not dictate an  org's actions in every scenario because "Pirate"!!

4)  It is much smarter to patrol controllable trade routes, which when paid for by individuals, they may use them.  We secure them, this is a much smaller area than "all of space" or "anywhere in a sector".

  It also allows pirate groups an option.  If they want to take on the large org with a considerable military presence, they can choose to do so and quickly learn their mistake.  Or the easier option, they can prey on those who choose not to pay for and use the secured trade routes, and not get entangled with the large org.  Options are good.

5) This in no way means bounties on pirates that are too overzealous will be ignored, in fact they may be taken up by individual groups who feel the need to do good on any certain day, who may or may not be in the org, but not as an ORG activity.  In short the pirate needs to be effecting our cash flow for an org to get involved officially.

6) That option mentioned in 4, will keep business as usual.  Allow them room to operate, with fixed rules, and everyone is happy.  In fact, if an outsider comes in and decides to "pirate it up" in their sector, you may see pirates turn on pirates to keep the status quo, and not get the Large Military presence involved.

 

All just my view, but it really seems the smarter way to go.

 

The alternative, of hunting down all pirates, not only seems ridiculously expensive both from a time and cost perspective, it also seems like it could unite them against the big bad overbearing org.

I think you are right about point 4. It is much smarter to patrol a smaller area. Where we have trade routes or mining operations. It take a little time but most smart pirates will learn not to attack any Imperium ship close to one of them areas, even if that ship is not in the area we are defending. As we could send overwhelming force to deal with them fast.

As for your first point, I do think attacking pirates could have things to offset the cost. For one bounty's, we scan and find out who on the ship and we claim the bounty's on them. You get more money if they are live, but some will still pay even if they die, just not as much. Every little helps. You also have the ships they was flying. You might not be able to keep their ship. But i don't think it be anything stopping other people from the Org coming with their reclaimer and striping it for every UEC they can get out of it. 

But at some point, might be at a start of moving in to a area or when they get overzealous. You might have to go and show them the Org can use overwhelming force if need to guard it assets in a given area. But that also might be going into the next system where they are coming from. A stay out of my area or i come to your area type thing. You don't always have to use overwhelming force, but you need them to know it there if needed and you will use it. And that a big offset to cost you have. 

As for your sixth point. You are right but. I think you have pirates fighting each other over the right to a area. Or just attacking them because they have something they want. Or just griefing each other. 

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On the other hand we could of course make sure that most pirates do not touch ships running the imperium flag by putting harsh penalties on pirating one of our vessels :

- instant contract on any pirate dumb enough to mess with us: You mess with us and we will make sure it is not worth it. We will find you and we will kill you. We make it personal each and every time.

- maybe a special imperium branch that is set up for "punishing" pirates that mess with our ships: they hunt down the pirates and recycle their ships ;) 

Regular pirates will not mess with us if they understand that the might of the imperium fleet will come down on their heads if they harm our ships. You always have the ones that will attack us just to mess with us but at least we discourage a large amount of players and hopefully they will attack a ship that is from a smaller org that does not unleash the dogs war on them ;)

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Thinking about economics or even revenge is overthinking the problem in my opinion. Making a Kill On Site document for every pirate that bothers you will not be a detriment, in fact most would subscribe for the service.

Pirates, are pvp players. Every last one. They have practiced pvp, they have died thousands of times learning skills. I do not know one who would not love a good furball, or would flinch about dying. 

I feel your best tools people have against piracy are being sneaky and avoidance, and your organisational VOIP.  Imperium is full of very nice people and great pvp players. While they may not want to fly next to your starfarer for 4 hours while you make money, they would love to fight pirates if they knew where they were. Get to know them before you need them, they will enjoy helping you one day. Again, pvp players love some pvp.

I would also like to personally encourage you to practice yourself. I think you might develop respect for adversarial players, and maybe even make some friends with a few. After dying a hundred or so times (kinda going to happen) you may be less worried about getting blown up. You might even have fun.

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I doubt getting blown up in a fully loaded Hull E will be fun for most players ;) I also doubt that pirates enjoy losing their ships several times per day, I think the waiting time for replacements will get annoying after the first few losses. I really hope this will not be a game where people don’t mind losing their ship or life several times per hour. If I wanted to play Battlefield in Space I would not have backed SC :lol: Losing your life and/or ship should be annoying and increasingly so if it happens frequently. This is not a respawn timer game where you run for a new hornet after waiting an intolerable 10  seconds and then join the furball again or even worse a game where you chose in the lobby to spawn to any of the many spawn points in the universe or a team spawn beacon (or at least I don’t hope it will be this kind of Star Marine game) . Maybe I am too hard core but I would really prefer a more mature space simulation where peoples lives matter and death is almost as annoying as in real life;) 

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The identification of pirate groups is going to start with non-Imperium ships arriving in our territory in multiple numbers, and presumably in combat oriented ships. Honest traders will be alone and in trading ships. Any large non-identified fleet should be flagged and reported along the chain of command, and if possible, monitored until proper respondents arrive.

In theory, pirates interdicting in our domain should not last long before it is reported and dealt with.

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I'm curious to see what prevailing tactics will exist on the part of the pirates. Will they rely on suicide ganks in higher security space maybe scouts that prevent your escape till the main fleet arrives? And just how long will an industry ship be able to last in a fight, so does backup need to be seconds away or can it be minutes away (standing army vs reserves)?

When it came to eve the group I was in we would run mining without an escort as long as the system was considered clear. Which was done through Intel from surrounding systems that linked to ours. Just so much game design that hasn't been announced, to my knowledge, so the picture isn't yet clear.

So I have two theories of how CIG could shape mining operations:

1.   If mining operations have some tanky-ness.

  • They operate without a physically present escort.
  • But assistance will need to be minutes away to support an escape.

2.   If mining ships are weak or easily taken over, then a fighter fleet presence makes sense.

  • Physically present force to deter.
  • Aligned to home, very jumpy miners that run to port when the deterring force isn't seen as enough.

Also it appears the Orion has a turret so I wouldn't be surprised if a large enough fleet had some kind of herd safety when it came to facing a small group of pirates.

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