Build help New Build Advice

[Gallitin]

Alright so after following other's builds, talking about purchasing another pre-built PC and being reminded I'll overpay and get less...here's what I've come up with: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/VXFFWX

Last time I built a PC was about 4-5 years ago so few questions:

CPU - i7 vs i9

• Is it worth grabbing the i9 now or is the i7 8700 just fine?  Why?
• Is the cooler I picked ok?

Motherboard

• Completely guessed on this one, bad, good?

Case - Mid vs Full

• I like the look of the full size cases, but more money.  I won't have any cd/dvd drives.  Does the full tower cool any better?  Is there any advantage beyond the actual space?

Video Card - GeForce 1080ti

• I'm finding all kinds of these out there.  Does the brand matter?  What detailed specs do I need to look at?  All I've seen is the 11gb version that I want.

Memory

• I'm going to get 32 gigs of memory, does it matter if I get 2x16 or 4x8?  I didn't know exactly how dual channel works and if better to have all 4 slots filled or if not relevant.
• I see options for 3200 and 4000, is the 4000 worth the price or should I just pick up 3200?

Hard Drive

• SSD vs m2.SSD vs PCI-E SSD?  I'm lost on m2 and PCI.  I see both labeled with some Octane drives, but PCI-E seems more expensive.  What do I want here m2 or PCI-E and which one?  I haven't followed how the tech works, read some, but still not fully getting it.

Power Supply

• Again guessed here, assuming 1k is ok?

Sound Card

• Are sound cards relevant anymore or is onboard sufficient?  Picked a soundblaster one out, but not sure if I need it.

Fans

• I just chose some, assume I need 4 for the case, are they right? Do I need more or some different?

All suggestions welcome, so be brutal with me if I've chosen something completely off.  I'd like to stick to higher end stuff, but if it's a waste please let me know.

[Gallitin]

Appears comparing that to pre-built saves about $500 overall.

[Donut]

I've gone ahead and edited it a little Changed out the Gigabyte motherboard for an Asrock, and the Corsair PSU for an EVGA. Both reasons have to do with quality control. While both make decent products, when you get something that doesn't work, it really will give you a lot of problems and Gigabytes customer support in particular isn't that great. You're about $120 more invested with the revisions I made.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7czbnn

[Donut]

Let me add: I like having a sound card because of having both surround speakers, and a headset that requires an AMP/DAC to power it. I even specifically plan on getting one just for a single headset

This is the one I plan on getting. It's stylish and has a lot of features built into the software for a headset:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/77VBD3/creative-labs-sound-blasterx-ae-5-sound-card-sb1740

[Lakota]

My general thoughts on the build.

CPU: I'm an Intel fan boy so i love the choice in CPU as i have also purchased the same just recently. 

RAM: Like you may be suspecting already the Ram you've chosen will most likely provide no noticeable difference in gaming or average running of the system. Also consider that whether you chose the 4000MHz or 3200MHz the Ram does come, by default, in 2133MHz. Most motherboards come with an XMP profile you'll need to enable in the BIOS to actually set the Ram to run at the speed advertised. Also, stick with 32gb if you can afford it and I'm unsure if having 4x8gb or 2x16gb is better. I went with 1x16gb 3200MHz to start out.

Motherboard: I tired to do as much research as possible into this before i upgraded and it was surprising to see some consensus on how gigabyte did well on the board you picked. I would normally be recommending an Asus board but all that are available for our CPU were reviewed with average ratings. I Personally went with an Asrock Motherboard this time around as it seemed to have the most user friendly BIOS for overclocking.

Case: Given you are looking at going for the 8700k (which preforms amazingly when overclocked) and you are going to pair it with that Corsair cooler i'd suggest shooting for a full tower. Not only will it provide more space for any future upgrades but it does allow you to add more fans for circulation. I've got the same CPU and cooler, had i not gone for a full tower i'd definitely feel that the CPU cooler was too large.

Video Card: The biggest difference between branding i had noticed was with coil-wine. I recall reading the Asus cards had more of an issue with this than others but that was some time ago. I personally go with MSI when it comes to GPUs as I've never had an issue with them. 

Storage: M.2. drives cannot communicate with all cores but NVME can. I don't really know any more than that. My roommate actually works for Intel/Toshiba on these specific drives development so I may update with with more details if i can get him to sit down and type. 

PSU: 1k will be more than you need, but, make sure it's fully modular and you should be fine. I went with an EVGA G3 850w PSU.

Fans: Most cases come with fans, but obviously they'll be a little louder than you may want. Once you've settled on a case look around for reviews and what other people did for their builds. I stuck with my stock fans.

My current build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Ryzbnn My GPU, HDD, and SSD are the only hold overs from my last PC.

[Blazingcold]

CPU: i7 8700 will give you some of the best results for gaming, as most games still somewhat rely heavily off a single core. The higher the single core the more performance you will get. That is just a really basic breakdown explanation though as there are many other factors that apply to different situations. Keep in mind that games do seem to be heading in the direction of multi-core processor's, AMD is looking to pioneer this market in the next few years if not starting to bring something to the table this year. My vote for you know would be for the i7 as its able to tackle what is available on the market now.

RAM: Lakota has it down flat with what to expect from RAM, you can go with either. Most games now need at least 8gb to run efficiently 16gb to get the most out of games. My motto is don't leave a good slot empty.

CPU Cooler: I have had some amazing results from the Noctua air coolers, 14 or 15 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018. Biggest issue is space I would recommend a Full tower in any case. Heat control is your main priority for pushing any components beyond the presets, more space=more fans for better airflow. Also allows for any card on the market to fit right on in.

Motherboard: Overclocking, easy interface BOIS!

GPU: I am currently using the Gigabyte AORUS 1080TI XE and its amazing, ASUS and MSI also brands that I trust, customer service for them.............................

Storage: For speed M.2/Optane 900p either for your OS or as your current playing game install folder. The EVO 850 500gb or 1TB is a really go to for speed and storage if you do not want to spend the extra on PCIe SSD, SSD-RAID is not really a good option as yes it has its pluses for other applications, gaming is not one of them as it tends to cause a latency effect with games and somewhat of a video hiccup.

PSU: 1k is more than you will ever need for a long time.

Coolers: Recommend investing in this as cheap fans tend to wear and become louder over time, its the little things that make the difference.

[Brightmist]

CPU: Skip i9s if you don't require them for productivity reasons, not worth it for gaming. 8700k should be fine or alternatively you can wait for Ryzen+ 7 series. It'll have better upgrade options for the future and it's soldered so no need to delid to get 20C lower.

Cooler you picked is a really bad CLC. If you're after easy-to-install liquid cooling, get a proper AIO like Swiftech HX-240(or similiar Swiftech units) or Bequiet Silent Loop 280. Something refillable and cleanable so it won't degrade in performance by liquid evaporation or break down after a couple of years.

Motherboard: GB Gaming 7 has nice VRMs. Check this thread      for Z370 motherboard picks, all the info you'll need when picking up a motherboard pretty much.

Intel NICs are better compared to Killer ones for connectivity. For Audio, Realtek ALC1220 is the best, older onboard audio chips are significantly inferior compared to this.

Case: Case size doesn't have much to do with cooling, it all depends on case airflow. Pick a case with mesh or dust filter only in front(or a removable front panel). Cases with restricted intakes have bad airflow.  If you don't have a lot of 2.5"/3.5" drives, mid towers should do. My suggestion would be Be Quiet Dark Base 700 with front panel removed. It comes with 2x highest quality 1600 RPM 140mm PWM Be Quiet fans and adding 1 more in front and 1 more on top of PSU shroud as bottom intake should keep your GPU cool.  Do not use 140mm Noctua fans in pull setups(like front intake). Their propeller are slightly offset so they'll start creating an annoying whine at slightly higher speeds compared to other high quality fans.

This guide has everything you need on how to optimize your case airflow. It also has case, mobo and air cooler clearence numbers if you decide to go that way. Some wide tower coolers (like Noctua D15) just invade first PCI-E slot or won't let case side panel close so do check those if you're going that way.

3x 140mm square intake fans in front will provide best cooling with front to back airflow. Exhaust fans aren't necessary if you have good static pressure fans as intakes. Square fans are better for front since they'll stop cool air from escaping by totally covering the front intakes.

Rads are best placed on top or bottom as exhausts or alternatively, small 120-140mm rad is alright in the back as exhaust so build accordingly. Try not to have rads contaminating GPU intake fans with hot air. Also transforming back exhaust to an intake with an added magnetic dust filter for top installed rads are a good, small modification to do.

Bottom intake directly hitting GPU does help with GPU temps significantly and so does removing airflow restricting components like unused back PCI-E covers.

Top intakes are just bad unless you have an inverse ATX build.

GPU brand for 1080ti doesn't matter much as long as it has a decent heatsink, they more or less overclock the same. Pick one from a company that provides good warranty in your region. Also do choose a AIB partner card (open air cooler design). All the thin fans on AIB partner GPUs are notoriously bad, it's just better to replace them with 120x120x25 mm case fans by removing GPU fan shroud. I like Nidoc Servo Gentle Typhoon 120mm fans' sound profile best but I'm not well-versed in 120mm fans.

RAM: pick a Samsung B-die kit if you're going 3200 or higher frequency. They're the best overclocker DIMMs. Anything 3000C14, 3200C14, 3600C15-16-17 or higher rated with timings like 14-14-14-34 or 15-15-15-36. Other kits with timings like 15-17-17-36 are Hynix ICs and they're significantly inferior especially if you plan on doing overclocking or tightening your timings. Go SR(Single rank) 2 DPC(2 DIMM per channel) for Ryzen builds for highest compatibility. Go DR(dual rank) 1 DPC for Intel builds so your RAM will lose less value overtime. G.Skill B-die are the best binned, other brands generally use bottom of the barrel B-die DIMMs.

Go SATA or M2 for storage. PCI-E drives impede GPU airflow.

PSU: 1K is way overkill for a single-gpu setup. 550W is enough for fully overclocking single GPU PCs(CPU/RAM/GPU overclocks) with mainstream processors. Get a 650W unit if you wanna go overkill. EVGA G2/P2, Corsair RMX, Seasonic Prime Titanium, Focus Gold series will do the job.

Sound cards aren't necessary with a decent onboard audio chip like Realtek ALC1220. If you're super audiophile, get a high quality USB DAC. Internal soundcards impede airflow and have notoriously bad driver support. They cause a ton of issues.

 

[Basard]

I would personally wait for Z390 @Gallitin

I would go for 2x 16gigs sticks at 3200Mhz for the Ram (2 sticks are generally faster than 4 but were talking very small).

Buy a good quality PSU, Superflower / EVGA at highest quality in your price range. 750-800 watt PSU if you desided later to Dual GPU and Overclock. And go fully modular.

Ryzen+ is also out in a few months time and if you are playing at 3440 or 4K then you'll be GPU bound and not CPU bound so the extra cores might be somthing to consider than just IPC.

 

If this is a system for the next 4 years then i'd honestly suggest waiting for 8 core enthusiast (Z390) / Ryzen+ or go X299 / X399 if you want the extra PCI lanes right now. Especially if this for Star Citizen.

 

https://segmentnext.com/2018/01/03/pc-hardware-products-2018/

Also that case is very overpriced for what it is and I highly recomend the Anidees - AI Crystal for $50 less and looks less tacky tbh.

[rimmer59]

In reality; any of these machines would work just fine.  I personally made changes to the cosmetics and specific parts to reduce cost and offer great alternatives (note: I am biased against Gigabyte because of an RMA which was not honored).  Some of these changes were mentioned above by others.  I am using an 8700k w/ Extreme4 motherboard right now. 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/sy72KZ

Basically I removed some RGB stuff and added in alternative parts to keep RGB but in a different way.  If RGB isn't a big deal then swap out the Kraken for the H100iv2 and the RGB RAM w/ another kit.  I agree w/ Basard; Z390 & Zen2 are right around the corner and I would keep that in mind when buying.  Rumored 8-core processor from Intel and performance improvements on the AMD side. 

All of the parts you have will work well together it's just a matter of playing "The Price is Right" and determining what variations of products to purchase and at what time.

e: Also don't worry about maxing out the fans in the case.  As long as there are a couple intakes, an exhaust, and positive pressure within the case; you're fine.
e2: The motherboard is also RGB; despite what the image shows (blue only).

[Juntau]

Hey @Gallitin, If you want straight to the point easy to understand advice, just hop on TS. We are always here.

[Basard]

15 minutes ago, Juntau said:

Hey @Gallitin, If you want straight to the point easy to understand advice, just hop on TS. We are always here.

This.

[Gallitin]

12 hours ago, Lakota said:

Also consider that whether you chose the 4000MHz or 3200MHz the Ram does come, by default, in 2133MHz. Most motherboards come with an XMP profile you'll need to enable in the BIOS to actually set the Ram to run at the speed advertised.

Ah ok, so the motherboard you've suggested will allow me to do this easily within the bios it sounds like?

12 hours ago, Lakota said:

PSU: 1k will be more than you need, but, make sure it's fully modular and you should be fine. I went with an EVGA G3 850w PSU.

Ah ok thanks, will lower that to an 850 then.

4 hours ago, Blazingcold said:

CPU: i7 8700 will give you some of the best results for gaming, as most games still somewhat rely heavily off a single core.

Got it, going to be using for work as well, so photoshop, illustrator, code ide, and dozen other things all running at once.

3 hours ago, Brightmist said:

CPU: Skip i9s if you don't require them for productivity reasons, not worth it for gaming. 8700k should be fine or alternatively you can wait for Ryzen+ 7 series.

Ah yeah as above, will be using it for quite a few things outside of gaming as well.

3 hours ago, Brightmist said:

Go SATA or M2 for storage. PCI-E drives impede GPU airflow.

PSU: 1K is way overkill for a single-gpu setup. 550W is enough for fully overclocking single GPU PCs(CPU/RAM/GPU overclocks) with mainstream processors. Get a 650W unit if you wanna go overkill. EVGA G2/P2, Corsair RMX, Seasonic Prime Titanium, Focus Gold series will do the job.

Sound cards aren't necessary with a decent onboard audio chip like Realtek ALC1220. If you're super audiophile, get a high quality USB DAC. Internal soundcards impede airflow and have notoriously bad driver support. They cause a ton of issues.

Got it thanks for the info, very helpful.

2 hours ago, Basard said:

I would personally wait for Z390 @Gallitin

Yeah, I'm not patient though

2 hours ago, Basard said:

Ryzen+ is also out in a few months time and if you are playing at 3440 or 4K then you'll be GPU bound and not CPU bound so the extra cores might be somthing to consider than just IPC.

I have one 4k monitor and 3 1080 monitors on my current setup.

2 hours ago, Basard said:

f this is a system for the next 4 years then i'd honestly suggest waiting for 8 core enthusiast (Z390) / Ryzen+ or go X299 / X399 if you want the extra PCI lanes right now. Especially if this for Star Citizen.

Probably next 2-3 year system.

1 hour ago, rimmer59 said:

If RGB isn't a big deal then swap out the Kraken for the H100iv2 and the RGB RAM w/ another kit.  I agree w/ Basard; Z390 & Zen2 are right around the corner and I would keep that in mind when buying.  Rumored 8-core processor from Intel and performance improvements on the AMD side. 

Yeah RGB isn't important to me.  I'd like to wait if it was a week or two, but not patient enough beyond that  From what I'm seeing they are just saying first half of 2018 but no specifics on when the Z390 will be released?

1 hour ago, Juntau said:

Hey @Gallitin, If you want straight to the point easy to understand advice, just hop on TS. We are always here.

Yes I'll do that for sure when I have my final build ready by end of weekend and see what you think prior to ordering.

[rimmer59]

Yeah the Extreme4 Z370 (and most motherboards) have it located under memory settings or even on the splash screen.  It will be "XMP On/Off" and then "Profile 1" or "Profile 2".  Select that (profile 1), save & exit, then the machine will restart and you'll be running at advertised speeds.

[Brightmist]

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LBgY6X

Ryzen list with Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT with added optional duct as CPU cooler (duct pictured below)

3x Be Quiet! Silent Wings 1600 RPM PWM fans as front intakes (2 of these included with the case)

3x Thermalright TY-147B fans as bottom intake, back exhaust and on CPU cooler. (1 of these is included with CPU cooler)

3-way fan splitter can safely be used on Taichi when connected to one of the two 1.5A/18W fan headers.

CPU cooler requires AM4 bracket for installation, seller on Amazon provides these for free when he's sent a message about it.

[Gallitin]

41 minutes ago, rimmer59 said:

Yeah the Extreme4 Z370 (and most motherboards) have it located under memory settings or even on the splash screen.  It will be "XMP On/Off" and then "Profile 1" or "Profile 2".  Select that (profile 1), save & exit, then the machine will restart and you'll be running at advertised speeds.

That's interesting, why would they limit the memory speed by default?

[CaptainCypher]

i5/7 65xx+, 75xx+ or 85xx+, plus DDR4 ram seem to have the biggest impact on FPS.
Older Intel CPU's and AMD CPU seem to suffer more lag on the same server that those listed above.

That and making sure you have at least 16GB of ram.

[Stimula]

In addition to most of the hardware advice everyone else has suggested. My input would be to not forget to "Burn in" your Hardware. I love my 1080ti, and I treat her like a lady. But I would never push it unless I knew what it was capable of. I recommend using Passmark for your load/stress testing. There's not really any other way to tell if your fan setup is working as intended unless you step on the proverbial gas pedal. I also rely pretty heavily on CUPID's CPU-Z and HWMonitor to keep an eye on my custom rig.

[rimmer59]

2 hours ago, Gallitin said:

That's interesting, why would they limit the memory speed by default?

They make it to where you choose to "load" the profile(s) and then they're saved.  It can be compared to overclocking; you set it manually once and then it will run at those speeds. 

In the case of AMD; CAS matters and if it default loaded Profile 1 of 3200Mhz CL16 by default you would bootloop (until the RAM freq got reset) as at that CL you (at least used to) could only reach 2933Mhz off of the default profile.

[Lakota]

7 hours ago, Gallitin said:

That's interesting, why would they limit the memory speed by default?

"By default, memory should adhere to specifications set by JEDEC (formerly known as the Joint Electron Device Engineering Council).  These specifications state what information should be stored in the memory EEPROM, such as manufacturer information, serial number, and other useful information.  Part of this are the memory specifications for standard memory speeds, including (for DDR3) 1066 MHz, 1333 MHz and 1600 MHz, which a system will adhere to in the event of other information not being available."

Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/2?_ga=2.52297513.1418595065.1516505079-135817575.1516505079

Basically, JEDEC dictates what standard RAM clocking should be and so manufacturers set them at those speeds. However, most sticks (Now) are designed for higher and that's where the extreme memory profile (XMP) comes in. OCs the RAM giving you what the sticks are actually built for. 

Couldn't actually find a definitive answer as to WHY this is. Other than higher clocks messing with other hardware and software at first boot.

[Lakota]

5 hours ago, Stimula said:

In addition to most of the hardware advice everyone else has suggested. My input would be to not forget to "Burn in" your Hardware. I love my 1080ti, and I treat her like a lady. But I would never push it unless I knew what it was capable of. I recommend using Passmark for your load/stress testing. There's not really any other way to tell if your fan setup is working as intended unless you step on the proverbial gas pedal. I also rely pretty heavily on CUPID's CPU-Z and HWMonitor to keep an eye on my custom rig.

Couldn't agree more. Once the build is complete run a test to see how it preforms under pressure before you run to overclocking anything. 

@Gallitin Try to research average temps for similar builds and find out what the Max safe temp is for the CPU and GPU. When running passmark or any other stress test/benchmark watch and see how your hardware responds. 

The 8700k (With the Corsair h100i v2) should idle around 30c, average around 55c to 65c when gaming, and should never sustain a temperature above 80c.

[Stimula]

Quote

That's interesting, why would they limit the memory speed by default?

A regulated front side bus speed will cause the CPU to spend significant or insignificant amounts of time waiting for data to arrive from system memory.

[T-rex]

1080ti are really all the same. It come down to look and brands that you want.  However it seem that founder ed seem to have a little more heat then other. 

Your case are big enough to have a 2-3 fans in the 1080ti. 

[Gallitin]

So the more I've read the i7 8700k is the way I'm going.  The i9 is crazy expensive and the higher I go the lower the per core ghz fall.  Seems due to that based on your guy's and reading information that is a huge disadvantage.  

What's the "normal" speed an i7 8700k can be overclocked.  I'm seeing results of 30% or more, is that right?  Even at 30% overclocked it would jump from base 3.7 to 4.8, is that legit?

[Lakota]

1 hour ago, Gallitin said:

So the more I've read the i7 8700k is the way I'm going.  The i9 is crazy expensive and the higher I go the lower the per core ghz fall.  Seems due to that based on your guy's and reading information that is a huge disadvantage.  

What's the "normal" speed an i7 8700k can be overclocked.  I'm seeing results of 30% or more, is that right?  Even at 30% overclocked it would jump from base 3.7 to 4.8, is that legit?

I've seen, on average, 4.6 to 4.8 stable OCs and i'm personally going for 4.8.

Anyone pushing higher, like 5.0 to 5.1, isn't making something you can really use without high risk of a crash.

[Gallitin]

9 hours ago, Lakota said:

I've seen, on average, 4.6 to 4.8 stable OCs and i'm personally going for 4.8.

Anyone pushing higher, like 5.0 to 5.1, isn't making something you can really use without high risk of a crash.

Got it and thanks!

Also thanks to everyone else all of this info helped me a ton over the weekend.  Going to get my final build list ready today and order the parts.  

So far all seem readily available except the 1080i, new egg is sold out of almost all except $1200 versions of it.  I've found it a few other places but the sites look sketchy, anyone have a link to a trusted online store I can purchase one from that's in stock already?