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Blazingcold

Which ship to keep? Hammerhead vs Polaris

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I have been giving thought into melting my hammerhead for the Polaris. I know I want to gear towards combat at first and both have roles at which they excel at in. The Hammerhead I see for escort, fleet guard/shield, fighter screen or could use as a small command with a group of fighters. The Polaris seems to have that more multi-function beyond its roll as a heavy hitter for larger ships, having a larger storage capacity, can carry a small ship, has a medium to close range fighter screen also, room for more sub-systems. I figured maintenance cost would be a large factor, bigger ship bigger target, high risk factor. I guess really what I'm asking is I like to bring something to the table that would be useful in more of a variety if I so choose to go beyond my main focus of combat. I know both can be useful and missions can found that benefit having one or multiple of them in it.

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17 minutes ago, Blazingcold said:

I have been giving thought into melting my hammerhead for the Polaris. I know I want to gear towards combat at first and both have roles at which they excel at in. The Hammerhead I see for escort, fleet guard/shield, fighter screen or could use as a small command with a group of fighters. 

How exactly do you think the Hammerhead is of use for a fighter screen? It does not have a landing pad to refuel/rearm fighters and almost all fighters have a very little range compared to the Hammerhead. By the introduction of the Hammerhead I think its even more important than before not just to bring a bunch of fighters to every mission but also some torps... which the Polaris does. The Polaris is a captial the Hammerhead is not, so Capital components vs. Large components.

 

As you say, they both excel in their roles but I doubt that the Hamerhead will excel in supporting a fighter screen as well as the Polaris. For me, the Hammerhead is a very specialized (and overpriced) ship with a very strong but also very limited role. 

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18 minutes ago, Stahlkopp said:

How exactly do you think the Hammerhead is of use for a fighter screen? It does not have a landing pad to refuel/rearm fighters and almost all fighters have a very little range compared to the Hammerhead. By the introduction of the Hammerhead I think its even more important than before not just to bring a bunch of fighters to every mission but also some torps... which the Polaris does. The Polaris is a captial the Hammerhead is not, so Capital components vs. Large components.

 

As you say, they both excel in their roles but I doubt that the Hamerhead will excel in supporting a fighter screen as well as the Polaris. For me, the Hammerhead is a very specialized (and overpriced) ship with a very strong but also very limited role. 

Sorry what I was meaning was it was a barrier for enemy fighters not a support platform for allied fighter ships

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Yes one is for fighters and one for capital and the both excel very well in the role that they have been placed in. I was seeking advice on what really the advantage was in going from a Hammerhead to Polaris and if it was to my personal advantage as well as a benefit the fleet more. Was looking for feed back on some of the cons and pro's between the two.

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1 hour ago, Blazingcold said:

I have been giving thought into melting my hammerhead for the Polaris. I know I want to gear towards combat at first and both have roles at which they excel at in. The Hammerhead I see for escort, fleet guard/shield, fighter screen or could use as a small command with a group of fighters. The Polaris seems to have that more multi-function beyond its roll as a heavy hitter for larger ships, having a larger storage capacity, can carry a small ship, has a medium to close range fighter screen also, room for more sub-systems. I figured maintenance cost would be a large factor, bigger ship bigger target, high risk factor. I guess really what I'm asking is I like to bring something to the table that would be useful in more of a variety if I so choose to go beyond my main focus of combat. I know both can be useful and missions can found that benefit having one or multiple of them in it.

Aegis-Hammerhead-Piece-02-Full-Force-03-06.jpg

Star_Citizen_Ships_510048.jpg

I believe your dilemma is very common these days.... If you plan on pure escort/combat I'd stick with the Hammerhead ( remember the pilot has no gun to fire afaik) since it will be a superb platform for fighting against 90% of what pirates/'duul riaders can throw at you.

If you want to do something else on top of fighting ( like exploring) or plan to engage caps the Polaris will be better ( I know a good part of why I kept my Polaris is the hangar).

If you don't mind freezing some money, you could buy the upgrade and let it dormant or melt the Hammerhead and stock a buyback token.

One more thing that made me keep the Polaris: in the PU the Polaris will probably cost exponentially more than the Hammerhead,. which means I'll have an easier time buying the Hammerhead down the road.

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1 hour ago, Blazingcold said:

I guess really what I'm asking is I like to bring something to the table that would be useful in more of a variety if I so choose to go beyond my main focus of combat. I know both can be useful and missions can found that benefit having one or multiple of them in it.

The decision really comes down to you i.e. what you expect from the game and how you plan to play it.

The Hammerhead is great for coordinated anti-fighter patrols and would be a worthy ship in a fleet that is protecting a large, vulnerable ship like the Endeavour or Hull-E.  The Polaris imo is more of a mobile base.  It has a hangar bay so you can ferry supplies, loot and people as well as providing space for repair/resupply of your fighters... the Hammerhead doesn't have that.  Also, one area that the Polaris excels over the Hammerhead is the potential to cause serious damage against capital ships because it carries the biggest torpedoes in the game.  This would make the Polaris a vital asset in large-scale Imperium ops.

So it comes down to you.  Do you want a large gunship that's great for protecting larger targets and performing patrols with a wing of fighters? Or would you rather bear the responsibility of what amounts to a mobile base/torpedo launcher that usually spearheads assaults against much larger ships?

 

Just now, Blazingcold said:

Yes one is for fighters and one for capital and the both excel very well in the role that they have been placed in. I was seeking advice on what really the advantage was in going from a Hammerhead to Polaris and if it was to my personal advantage as well as a benefit the fleet more. Was looking for feed back on some of the cons and pro's between the two.

Hammerhead pros:

- Smaller size - reduced maintenance costs, smaller crew requirement and smaller signature

- Insurance - Potentially take a shorter time to replace than the Polaris, due to its smaller size

Neutral:

- In large assaults, you'll most likely be ordered to hang back and protect larger ships/capitals.  I put this as neutral because this could either excite you or bore you.

Hammerhead cons:

- No hangar - no chance to repair/refuel/re-arm fighters and cannot transfer people or loot in large quantities... so if one of your wing damages his ship, they're going to be out of action.

 

Polaris pros:

- Weaponry - Largest torpedoes in the game.  Enemy capital ships would be zeroing in on you first.  If 

- Hangar - You have the ability to quickly ferry people, supplies and ships.  For example, you can put an empty fighter in your hangar when you depart with your team, so if one of your wing damages his ship, they can take the new one while the damaged one can be worked on in your hangar.  Alternatively, you could put a couple of Argos in there.

- Cargo capacity - Potentially can carry more than the Hammerhead.

Neutral:

- In large assaults, you'll most likely end up in the early part of the attack, if not *the* first wave.  I put this as neutral because this could either excite you or terrify you.  But remember, this is designed to use hit-and-run attacks against larger capital ships.

Polaris cons:

- Costs - Fuel, torpedoes, ammo, repairs

- Insurance - Potentially take longer to replace than the Hammerhead, due to its larger size

- Size - You'll be a big target in both combat and non-combat situations.  In battle, they'd want to take you out first and outside of battle, pirates would love to get a Polaris for themselves

 

** My advice: I agree with Riley and Khan.  If you bought your Polaris as a standalone ship and not a CCU, then melt it and buy a Hammerhead.  That way, you have a way to unmelt your Polaris should you decide to switch back because, for instance, the Polaris was added ingame and you liked it more than the Hammerhead.

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10 minutes ago, Tom Villder said:

The decision really comes down to you i.e. what you expect from the game and how you plan to play it.

The Hammerhead is great for coordinated anti-fighter patrols and would be a worthy ship in a fleet that is protecting a large, vulnerable ship like the Endeavour or Hull-E.  The Polaris imo is more of a mobile base.  It has a hangar bay so you can ferry supplies, loot and people as well as providing space for repair/resupply of your fighters... the Hammerhead doesn't have that.  Also, one area that the Polaris excels over the Hammerhead is the potential to cause serious damage against capital ships because it carries the biggest torpedoes in the game.  This would make the Polaris a vital asset in large-scale Imperium ops.

So it comes down to you.  Do you want a large gunship that's great for protecting larger targets and performing patrols with a wing of fighters? Or would you rather bear the responsibility of what amounts to a mobile base/torpedo launcher that usually spearheads assaults against much larger ships?

 

Hammerhead pros:

- Smaller size - reduced maintenance costs, smaller crew requirement and smaller signature

- Insurance - Potentially take a shorter time to replace than the Polaris, due to its smaller size

Neutral:

- In large assaults, you'll most likely be ordered to hang back and protect larger ships/capitals.  I put this as neutral because this could either excite you or bore you.

Hammerhead cons:

- No hangar - no chance to repair/refuel/re-arm fighters and cannot transfer people or loot in large quantities... so if one of your wing damages his ship, they're going to be out of action.

 

Polaris pros:

- Weaponry - Largest torpedoes in the game.  Enemy capital ships would be zeroing in on you first.  If 

- Hangar - You have the ability to quickly ferry people, supplies and ships.  For example, you can put an empty fighter in your hangar when you depart with your team, so if one of your wing damages his ship, they can take the new one while the damaged one can be worked on in your hangar.  Alternatively, you could put a couple of Argos in there.

- Cargo capacity - Potentially can carry more than the Hammerhead.

Neutral:

- In large assaults, you'll most likely end up in the early part of the attack, if not *the* first wave.  I put this as neutral because this could either excite you or terrify you.  But remember, this is designed to use hit-and-run attacks against larger capital ships.

Polaris cons:

- Costs - Fuel, torpedoes, ammo, repairs

- Insurance - Potentially take longer to replace than the Hammerhead, due to its larger size

- Size - You'll be a big target in both combat and non-combat situations.  In battle, they'd want to take you out first and outside of battle, pirates would love to get a Polaris for themselves

 

** My advice: I agree with Riley and Khan.  If you bought your Polaris as a standalone ship and not a CCU, then melt it and buy a Hammerhead.  That way, you have a way to unmelt your Polaris should you decide to switch back because, for instance, the Polaris was added ingame and you liked it more than the Hammerhead.

Thank you, I was looking for an objective point of view on what to expect from either ship and I agree with you Riley and Khan that it makes more sense to pickup the Polaris and use it for later if I decide to switch. I agree having more roles to be open to later on is a better investment. 

32 minutes ago, Riley Egret said:

I believe your dilemma is very common these days.... If you plan on pure escort/combat I'd stick with the Hammerhead ( remember the pilot has no gun to fire afaik) since it will be a superb platform for fighting against 90% of what pirates/'duul riaders can throw at you.

If you want to do something else on top of fighting ( like exploring) or plan to engage caps the Polaris will be better ( I know a good part of why I kept my Polaris is the hangar).

If you don't mind freezing some money, you could buy the upgrade and let it dormant or melt the Hammerhead and stock a buyback token.

One more thing that made me keep the Polaris: in the PU the Polaris will probably cost exponentially more than the Hammerhead,. which means I'll have an easier time buying the Hammerhead down the road.

Yes thank you that was more on the topic of what I was looking for in feedback.

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2 minutes ago, Blazingcold said:

Thank you, I was looking for an objective point of view on what to expect from either ship and I agree with you Riley and Khan that it makes more sense to pickup the Polaris and use it for later if I decide to switch. I agree having more roles to be open to later on is a better investment. 

Since a crew (and fighter wing) is essential for the operation of both ships, I highly suggest that you check out the units that operate under the Imperium banner if you haven't already done so:

https://forums.starcitizenbase.com/gc/

An Imperium unit is a group of members that have formed a group that is focused on a specific play-style, such as combat, exploration, trading etc.  Usually, units would also be time-zone specific as well.  So I recommend that you join one and take part so that by the time the Polaris and/or Hammerhead are in the game, you'd have a team that you can trust to back you up.

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45 minutes ago, Tom Villder said:

Since a crew (and fighter wing) is essential for the operation of both ships, I highly suggest that you check out the units that operate under the Imperium banner if you haven't already done so:

https://forums.starcitizenbase.com/gc/

An Imperium unit is a group of members that have formed a group that is focused on a specific play-style, such as combat, exploration, trading etc.  Usually, units would also be time-zone specific as well.  So I recommend that you join one and take part so that by the time the Polaris and/or Hammerhead are in the game, you'd have a team that you can trust to back you up.

Thanks I will look into signing up with a unit here soon.

 

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I'd also look at the crew sizes. The Hammerhead is far more efficient to run solo or in a small them with 3 min/9 max crew, versus the 6/14 of the polaris. Apart from that, the Polaris screams offense, while the hammerhead veers defensive. That said, with 32 size 3 missiles and 24 guns it could be very effective against anything in its own size category or smaller.

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I bought a Polaris Warbond last year for $625. I melted it and bought a Hammerhead with store credit for $650. So the Polaris is actually less expensive for me.

Regardless, I'm leaning toward keeping the Hammerhead over the Polaris, because its operating costs will be much lower. The Polaris' main armament is its Size 10 torpedoes. Those torpedoes aren't going to be cheap. I wouldn't launch a S10 torpedo just to see a pretty boom. I'd need a good reason, and have a reasonable expectation of compensation.

For example, if I was participating in an Org-sanctioned battle, and my Org was picking up the tab for my munition expenditures, then... FIRE AWAY! ;)

Or, if I was on a NPC-given mission to destroy a Vanduul cap ship and the reward justified the expense, then I'd use torpedoes. The Polaris probably couldn't take out the enemy cap ship with its secondary weapons.

But in most scenarios, I'd only launch torpedoes if I absolutely had to. That reluctance to use my own ship's primary weapons kinda invalidates its purpose. Although I understand that the Polaris serves other functions than a heavy torpedo boat.

Whereas the Hammerhead's primary armaments are its gun turrets with quad laser repeaters. They can be fired all day and it doesn't really cost anything. Based on my understanding of how ship components currently work, fuel is used by the engines during flight, but a ship's power plant doesn't consume fuel. You can leave your ship idling in space with its shields on all day without burning any fuel. That's a huge cost savings compared to the Polaris.

Also, the Hammerhead is built to neutralize fighters, bombers, and medium-to-large ships. They're a lot more common than cap ships. So I'm certain I'll get more use of the Hammerhead. That's why I'm planning to keep it.

Besides, I own an Idris, so I don't really need a Polaris. And I really don't need a Hammerhead, Polaris, and Idris. I might as well just buy a Javelin. ;)

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15 hours ago, Reavern said:

Besides, I own an Idris, so I don't really need a Polaris. And I really don't need a Hammerhead, Polaris, and Idris. I might as well just buy a Javelin. ;)

You do you definitely do :);

 

Although I am a bit crazy and really am thinking of having this combo...   Generally for the following reasons (personal preference on play style and motives)

 

HammerHead: Massive anti sub cap weaponry, decent speed, high fuel payload, decent protection.

-Looking for a single ship to escort my Hull D-E, 890, or genesis. Presence is key, great for taking out those EMP ships, and causing enough problems to get those ships I am protecting out of there. By no means a throwaway ship, but definitely something that even an experienced pirate would be hesitant to engage.

Polaris: Fighter bay, and fringe capital ship, along with a higher speed. 

-I would use it for refueling and just a presence in a controlled area of space. Although not the best at anything, it would be enough to make people think twice about engaging.

Idris: Fighter bay, large guns, Fleet Capital ship, etc

-More on the side of a mobile base than not, repair bays, refit/refuel, capital weapons and modules.  Mostly for the group fights, but I can't help but thinking of different options. Like ways to transport "stolen" ships or outlaw people across UEE or other space, or even just using the hanger bay as a storage area, as it could be the largest ship that can land with that amount of "storage."

Whelp just my thoughts on the theory crafting, but I am kind of a collector due to the fact we really don't know how any ship will really be in the end. I really hate to melt or get rid of any ship if I don't have to.

 

Edit:  Oh and forgot the Javelin, other than the fact that I don't want to afford it. I just see it as a ship of the line. Something specific for capital ship fighting. I have a hard time thinking of modules they are talking about adding, doing anything to greatly sway me any specific way. I truely see this as a modern day "FOB" Forward operating base. Rather than a ship to fly around

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Those are some pretty good arguments for the hammerhead, my main thoughts on the Polaris or the cons is the cost to run and upkeep.

I also wander which will have more play time? I'm sure that would depend on me and what it is I will be doing. 

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I currently have both but if I had to choose I would go for the Hammerhead. To me the Hammerhead feels like a ship that I would be flying more often while the Polaris is only for large scale PvP fleet battles where you know the enemy players will be bringing cap ships or massive PvE battles against Vanduul NPC fleets. But even in such cases Imperium members would likely be fielding Javelins and Idris-Ms while wanting Hammerheads for protection.

So I'm not even sure if I will keep my own Polaris as the Hammerhead was the 'corvette' I was looking for and had hoped the Polaris to be imo. I just kept it because it was a warbond and don't want to melt it for random small stuff. :P

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In lore, these ships work very well together in tandem. With the Polaris being the offensive punch, the Hammerhead is just the opposite. It has more than enough firepower to cover the Polaris' retreat after its launched it's torpedo salvos. 

I think the ability of the Hammerhead goes under stated. When working in teams, this ship will absolutely shred enemy ships. The Hammerhead is no slouch. Its made to take a good punch and still keep coming. Admittedly, the Hammerhead can not take on a single capital ship, Idris size or larger. But then again, it doesn't have to. Two or three Hammerheads vs. an Idris is no contest.

The Hammerhead is faster and more maneuverable the Idris, so trashing Idris fighter support won't be hard at all. Flanking an Idris would be easier than taking out the fighters. With well skilled gunners in an all ballistic loadout Hammerhead an Idris would definitely have its nose bloodied. But two or three Hammerheads would make the Idris a memory... Imho

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On 11/30/2017 at 9:55 AM, Zarian said:

The Hammerhead is faster and more maneuverable the Idris, so trashing Idris fighter support won't be hard at all. Flanking an Idris would be easier than taking out the fighters. With well skilled gunners in an all ballistic loadout Hammerhead an Idris would definitely have its nose bloodied. But two or three Hammerheads would make the Idris a memory... Imho

The hammerhead does have a lot of fire power and a lone one would inflict severe damage or destroy an Idris if it caught it napping.  If you equip your turrets with 4 size 4 m6As, you will inflict the equivalent of a size 9 torpedo with each turret every 5 seconds (faster than the missile lock?).  You get 5 turrets lined up, and that is an obscene amount of firepower. 

I feel you underestimate the Idris. It has a longer scanning range and can dock 3 fighters...it can support many more. Those three fighters can kill a turret based craft with pretty much impunity by dictating the range of engagement and just pouring shots down range. 3 fighters on one gunship...would not be a contest. I would enjoy fighting a gun ship solo in a hornet. Turrets are not magical. At 1500 even dead on shots will always miss a fighter who is strafing in multiple directions and the fighter can stay out there and effectively rain down fire that hits...all the time. And the ability to do this does not take much longer than a few minutes to acquire.  It is not fair. The situation is not effected at all with another hammerhead (the pilot can block it with the targeted hammerhead, and the third hammer head is even further away.)  Effective formation control helps against fighters I imagine, but only so much. Ballistic gatlings would make it more dangerous to fighters, but the projectiles have even a lower speed and are limited in fire time.  Now if turrets can lock on missiles, this changes the situation greatly. This is what they need in my opinion.

I fear with a Idris vs  3 Hammerhead match up, the hammerheads will never see the Idris. They will be interdicted by fighters they cannot hurt, NPCs and AI turrets excellent accuracy and awareness will make them easier to dodge, and a player in a turret would  have been better placed in a fighter of some kind.

Every pirate player I know have purchased this craft. Every one. The reason being is that it will be great for extortion, or destroying large industrial ships quickly if they fail to pay. It is also likely be excellent against NPC fighters. For lawful players, it is also excellent against player fighters or bombers who are not focusing on dodging..like say...attacking your convoy. 

Sorry this got long, in short: I fear you overestimate turrets against fighters and I agree the hammerhead is good.

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41 minutes ago, Scotterius said:

The hammerhead does have a lot of fire power and a lone one would inflict severe damage or destroy an Idris if it caught it napping.  If you equip your turrets with 4 size 4 m6As, you will inflict the equivalent of a size 9 torpedo with each turret every 5 seconds (faster than the missile lock?).  You get 5 turrets lined up, and that is an obscene amount of firepower. 

I feel you underestimate the Idris. It has a longer scanning range and can dock 3 fighters...it can support many more. Those three fighters can kill a turret based craft with pretty much impunity by dictating the range of engagement and just pouring shots down range. 3 fighters on one gunship...would not be a contest. I would enjoy fighting a gun ship solo in a hornet. Turrets are not magical. At 1500 even dead on shots will always miss a fighter who is strafing in multiple directions and the fighter can stay out there and effectively rain down fire that hits...all the time. And the ability to do this does not take much longer than a few minutes to acquire.  It is not fair. The situation is not effected at all with another hammerhead (the pilot can block it with the targeted hammerhead, and the third hammer head is even further away.)  Effective formation control helps against fighters I imagine, but only so much. Ballistic gatlings would make it more dangerous to fighters, but the projectiles have even a lower speed and are limited in fire time.  Now if turrets can lock on missiles, this changes the situation greatly. This is what they need in my opinion.

I fear with a Idris vs  3 Hammerhead match up, the hammerheads will never see the Idris. They will be interdicted by fighters they cannot hurt, NPCs and AI turrets excellent accuracy and awareness will make them easier to dodge, and a player in a turret would  have been better placed in a fighter of some kind.

Every pirate player I know have purchased this craft. Every one. The reason being is that it will be great for extortion, or destroying large industrial ships quickly if they fail to pay. It is also likely be excellent against NPC fighters. For lawful players, it is also excellent against player fighters or bombers who are not focusing on dodging..like say...attacking your convoy. 

Sorry this got long, in short: I fear you overestimate turrets against fighters and I agree the hammerhead is good.

CIG is working on improving the effectiveness of gun turrets, and they wouldn't have created the Hammerhead, an anti-fighter gunship, if turrets are as useless against fighters as you think.

I don't know how CIG is improving manned gun turrets, but I think one of the most effective ways to improve them is to buff their guns to fire at higher velocity and/or RoF. The Hammerhead's turrets can equip Size 4 weapons, which I believe are K&W CF-447 Rhino laser repeaters. The Rhino isn't currently available to use in game, but since it's Size 4, a Hornet or Cutlass could equip it on their Flashfire mounts. There are also some large ships, the Starfarer and 890 Jump, that equip Rhinos on turrets. Even though the Rhino can be equipped by a starfighter, I think it should have higher performance when equipped by a larger ship, because it has a more powerful power plant and can feed more power into the gun. It's basically the same idea as using the power management settings to divert more power to a ship's weapons; the weapons will have higher performance than their default rating. Larger ships should be able to feed more power into energy weapons at default settings, and even more when diverting more power to weapons. (Perhaps this would be balanced by faster overheating.) Obviously this would only be applicable for energy weapons (and mass drivers, I suppose), but not for ballistics.

This idea should give the Hammerhead's gun turrets an advantage over starfighters in terms of range, projectile velocity, RoF, and DPS. That should balance against the starfighter's smaller size and greater speed and agility. Sure, a Hornet could dance around in decoupled mode at 1500 metres and be a small moving target, but if the Hammerhead's guns fired at higher velocity and their DPS didn't diminish as much at longer range, any shots that did land would inflict greater damage than if the Hammerhead's Rhino performed exactly the same as a Rhino equipped by the Hornet. And with quad Rhinos on each turret, the Hammerhead would severely punish the Hornet for any mistakes it made flying evasively.

I'm not suggesting that starfighters should be fodder for the Hammerhead. Balance is vital. But it would make no sense if the Hammerhead was as ineffective against starfighters as you suggest, to the point that an Idris' 3 starfighters would give it a decisive advantage over the Hammerhead. I don't think 3 starfighters will make much of a difference against a Hammerhead. The Idris' advantage will be its railgun, STS cannon, and torpedoes. The most effective use of the starfighters would be to distract the gun turrets so the Idris can launch torpedoes at the Hammerhead. Shooting down incoming torpedoes is one of the Hammerhead's intended roles, to protect itself or cap ships its escorting, but if the fighters can distract the gunners, the torpedoes could slip through the Hammerhead's point-defenses and kill it.

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1 hour ago, Scotterius said:

The hammerhead does have a lot of fire power and a lone one would inflict severe damage or destroy an Idris if it caught it napping.  If you equip your turrets with 4 size 4 m6As, you will inflict the equivalent of a size 9 torpedo with each turret every 5 seconds (faster than the missile lock?).  You get 5 turrets lined up, and that is an obscene amount of firepower. 

I feel you underestimate the Idris. It has a longer scanning range and can dock 3 fighters...it can support many more. Those three fighters can kill a turret based craft with pretty much impunity by dictating the range of engagement and just pouring shots down range. 3 fighters on one gunship...would not be a contest. I would enjoy fighting a gun ship solo in a hornet. Turrets are not magical. At 1500 even dead on shots will always miss a fighter who is strafing in multiple directions and the fighter can stay out there and effectively rain down fire that hits...all the time. And the ability to do this does not take much longer than a few minutes to acquire.  It is not fair. The situation is not effected at all with another hammerhead (the pilot can block it with the targeted hammerhead, and the third hammer head is even further away.)  Effective formation control helps against fighters I imagine, but only so much. Ballistic gatlings would make it more dangerous to fighters, but the projectiles have even a lower speed and are limited in fire time.  Now if turrets can lock on missiles, this changes the situation greatly. This is what they need in my opinion.

I fear with a Idris vs  3 Hammerhead match up, the hammerheads will never see the Idris. They will be interdicted by fighters they cannot hurt, NPCs and AI turrets excellent accuracy and awareness will make them easier to dodge, and a player in a turret would  have been better placed in a fighter of some kind.

Every pirate player I know have purchased this craft. Every one. The reason being is that it will be great for extortion, or destroying large industrial ships quickly if they fail to pay. It is also likely be excellent against NPC fighters. For lawful players, it is also excellent against player fighters or bombers who are not focusing on dodging..like say...attacking your convoy. 

Sorry this got long, in short: I fear you overestimate turrets against fighters and I agree the hammerhead is good.

Excellent argument, but to the contrary, I think you greatly underestimate the speed and maneuverability of a Hammerhead. The ships speed has been compared to that of the Polaris and the Polaris' was distinctly described as "searing". 

In lore, the Polaris and Hammerhead work extremely well in concert with each other combining a great mix of offense and defense. 

This, alone, tells me that their speed and maneuverability are almost on par with each other. Now, to your point, yes the Idris has better scanning ability. But did you see how sluggish it moves? The gamescom presentation told me all that I need to know. The rail gun was impressive, but it was a dummy round fired at a high velocity. Not meant to track targets. 

As for the fighters, the Idris has to stop to in order to allow fighters to land and takeoff safely. That, in effect increase the likelihood of being attacked, regardless of range.  CIG has said that you can technically launch and retrieve fighters while moving but that it'll take serious effort and skill. That, at minimum, will mean the Idris will be relegated to flying in a straight line while launch and retrieval efforts are underway. In either case the attack will have already begun and again leaving them vulnerable.

Now lets talk tactics. If I know speed and maneuverability are on my side, I'd be foolish not to use it.  The fighters that the Idris would deploy would be a minimal threat. A Hammerhead is made to deal with fighters. So that's negligible at best.  Now, if I have multiple Hammerheads at my disposal, (3 in this example) attacking from various vectors would be the key. Out flanking an Idris would be a relatively easy feat and staying out of the way its rail gun shouldn't be too hard. 

Now, going with your earlier suggestion of using all ballistics. Though I wound never recommend doing this with the Hammerhead, I'd make the rounds count. Simply put, if I have 3 Hammerheads vs 1 Idris, I'm tasking two ships with one ship with destroying its defenses. Another to disable the engines and the last to target the bridge and destroy it. I'm bout going to waste time dancing with that hard hitting giant. I'm going to bring it down as fast as possible.

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@Reavern Ok, barring magic, and making turrets super strong with magic powers. Fighters will still destroy slower ships that depend on them, even if they have an anti fighter tag. It is how turrets work...it is just the way it is.  But, we are talking about skill here demonstrated by fighters: maintaining range, and dual or tipple axis strafing. In comparison to no skill by gun boat captains: NPCS or AI controlled turrets.

@Zarian Sure, Hammerhead are brilliant against big slow ships like the industrial powerhouses. I would not want my IDRIS doing a 1v1 with a hammerhead. Sure multiple vectors would work, but the IDRIS does have a much larger sensor range. Seen that dish?  I am sure you and your friends could murder ships with Hammerheads.

The million dollar question is: How many NPCs will Chris Roberts let you rent before it becomes "Battleship Simulator".  This is my big fear with the hammerhead. I would not be surprised with a limit of 3 (enough to man a Connie). I know lots of people really like the idea of big ships. It will be interesting. In his previous games he has let you rent like 2 elements a single transport and fighter wing( Privateer 2: Darkening {Not sure how much he was in that one]) and something similar in Freelancer.  The idea of lots of NPCs has never really appealed to him before.

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16 minutes ago, Scotterius said:

@Reavern Ok, barring magic, and making turrets super strong with magic powers. Fighters will still destroy slower ships that depend on them, even if they have an anti fighter tag. It is how turrets work...it is just the way it is.  But, we are talking about skill here demonstrated by fighters: maintaining range, and dual or tipple axis strafing. In comparison to no skill by gun boat captains: NPCS or AI controlled turrets.

@Zarian Sure, Hammerhead are brilliant against big slow ships like the industrial powerhouses. I would not want my IDRIS doing a 1v1 with a hammerhead. Sure multiple vectors would work, but the IDRIS does have a much larger sensor range. Seen that dish?  I am sure you and your friends could murder ships with Hammerheads.

The million dollar question is: How many NPCs will Chris Roberts let you rent before it becomes "Battleship Simulator".  This is my big fear with the hammerhead. I would not be surprised with a limit of 3 (enough to man a Connie). I know lots of people really like the idea of big ships. It will be interesting. In his previous games he has let you rent like 2 elements a single transport and fighter wing( Privateer 2: Darkening {Not sure how much he was in that one]) and something similar in Freelancer.  The idea of lots of NPCs has never really appealed to him before.

You keep referencing NPC's and AI... I won't be "renting" any at all. I'll have nothing less than human players in the turrets at all times. Human skill will trump "AI" every time. 

Remember, everything in this game will be skill based. Even if I have a handful of "just okay" gunners and they are crewing all turrets in all 6 of my Hammerheads, the constant spread of weapons fire will make them all look like all-stars. 

Also, in lore, it states that when working in teams, the Hammerhead will shred just about any opponent. This part is a little... vague. I don't know if that includes ships comparable to the  Javelin or just the Idris class and lower. 😕

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True, except for those times when the fleet gets jumped and the human gunners are out for a smoke, on the crapper, and making a sandwich.  :-)

Both the Hammerhead and the Polaris are great fleet ships and will be a lot of fun.  Looking forward to flying both.

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44 minutes ago, Sky Captain said:

True, except for those times when the fleet gets jumped and the human gunners are out for a smoke, on the crapper, and making a sandwich.  :-)

Both the Hammerhead and the Polaris are great fleet ships and will be a lot of fun.  Looking forward to flying both.

LoLa agreed! My fleet now comprises 6 Hammerheads and 1 Polaris. I am stoked!

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      Welcome to my personal hangar. I've been a huge Star Citizen fan since 2014 and it's a great honor to further contribute towards this incredible game's development by sharing with you the many original concept ships which are no longer available. I'm NOT cashing out whatsoever. If anything, you are grabbing these extra ships from my personal inventory. You are contributing to the games development  right alongside with me. A win for both you and Star Citizen. 
       
      I've been an Imperium and Star Citizen Base member since 2014. You'll see I have excellent feedback and Reputation here. I've had many successful transactions both here and on Reddit.
       

      Please read the Terms & Conditions of Service:
      Transactions through PayPal (Verified PayPal only). All prices are final (includes PayPal fees). If you are interested - leave a comment here and send me private message with: Ship or Package name, your PayPal email also your corresponding RSI handle. I will send an invoice for payment via PayPal. Item will be delivered to buyer's PayPal email address after payment has cleared. No returns or refund as the gifting system only allows a 1 time gifting and it will be account bound to the buyer's account (your payment will be refunded if I cannot deliver your item for any reason). If you are unsure about the item or have any questions, feel free to ask. You must own a copy of Star Citizen, and are required to have an account in order to accept item (ship/upgrade). Item will be delivered to the buyer's PayPal email address. You can claim the item by clicking on the link provided in the email about "gift"  and sign in your RSI account. Be careful to be logged into the correct RSI account when you redeem your email about "gift" containing the transmitted ship/upgrade. Tracking is provided by "Hangar Log" on RSI website and will be used as a proof of delivery. Prices are not negotiable.  I may have more than one of the items listed. If you are interested in more than one, please PM and I'll let you know how many I have.   
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    • By [≡☠≡] フの乇 ムノレレノム刀
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      Please read the Terms & Conditions of Service:
      Transactions through PayPal (Verified PayPal only). All prices are final (includes PayPal fees). If you are interested - leave a comment or/and send me private message. Payment via PayPal FF. If you are unsure about the ship or have any questions, feel free to ask. You must own a copy of Star Citizen, and are required to have an account in order to accept the ship. Item will be delivered to the buyer's PayPal email address. You can claim the item by clicking on the link provided in the email about "gift"  and sign in your RSI account. Be careful to be logged into the correct RSI account when you redeem your email about "gift" containing the transmitted ship. Tracking is provided by "Hangar Log" on RSI website and will be used as a proof of delivery.  

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