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Devil Khan

Hammerhead - Gunboat Anti-fighter

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19 hours ago, Zarian said:

I still don't get why people want operate ships like this solo. The blades question really irks me. Don't want a crew? Buy an Aurora! Smh...

Because some times you feel like a nut some times you don't o de joy to be nutz.. Why should you be stuck to a small ship....go big or go......

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25 minutes ago, Painmiester said:

Because some times you feel like a nut some times you don't o de joy to be nutz.. Why should you be stuck to a small ship....go big or go......

The point that I was trying to make was that it makes little to no sense for one person to continue making attempts to solo bigger ships. That just opens the flood gates to cry about something else. 

Say you're allowed to solo a Polaris, Idris or even a Javelin... That's all fine and good (in the beginning). Then you see how so smart it is to command such huge vessels with an AI crew. The AI can be fooled and gotten over like in any other game. So now you've lost the pride and joy of your fleet to someone with a real crew. Now the complaint is, "the AI isn't good enough". So now troll tears run all over the forums, when CR has said from the beginning that the larger ships are MEANT to be crewed by human players and AI are to used to fill in the gaps at less important positions.

Wanna crew a massive ship solo? I believe that gameplay exists in Star Trek Online. Once you beam to your ship, the ship effectively becomes your avatar for space flight and fleet battles. 

Please don't mistake my honest thought process for that of @$$hole. I'm just soaking plainly on what I believe to be true. 

While commanding a Bengal Carrier or a Retribution Super Dreadnought would be awseome, it seriously lacks the gameplay element that the majority of backers desire in this game. 

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Although they mentioned only the Tali in the QA in principle every ship that is capable to carry torpedos and/or size 5 guns is a threat to the Hammerhead. It's not just the Glad but also all Vanguards (not stock) and the Eclipse. For sure not 1 on 1 but as a wing ofc. 

btw - all Connies can be equipped with 4 size 5 guns each modell. 

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8 minutes ago, Stahlkopp said:

Although they mentioned only the Tali in the QA in principle every ship that is capable to carry torpedos and/or size 5 guns is a threat to the Hammerhead. It's not just the Glad but also all Vanguards (not stock) and the Eclipse. For sure not 1 on 1 but as a wing ofc. 

btw - all Connies can be equipped with 4 size 5 guns each modell. 

Very true, but I don't see a Connie matching the output of fire vs. a HH. It's less maneuverable and slower than a fighter. It can take more damage, however, so it'll be interesting to see that play out

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3 minutes ago, Zarian said:

Very true, but I don't see a Connie matching the output of fire vs. a HH. It's less maneuverable and slower than a fighter. It can take more damage, however, so it'll be interesting to see that play out

I doubt that a single Connie is able to do a 1 on 1 vs. a Hammerhead. There's prolly no ship in this size class or lower that could do that. 

However, the range of a size 5 weapon should be greater than the Hammerhead's size 4 weapons. Plus the Connies are very common and one can solo it. It'll be more maneuverable and prolly faster than the Hammerhead.

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5 hours ago, Zarian said:

After reading the Q&A I'm convinced this ship is the end all for fighters. 

Of course a pilot could bring a full ballistic build and hope for the best at shooting those turrets down, but the question is, do they really wanna risk it with perma-death being a thing? Doubtful.

Hello there. I am a fighter pilot. Please add my name to your contact list. When you hammerhead is flight ready (and sincerely, thanks for the support for star citizen) I would like to demonstrate that the statement 'Death of all fighters'...has been somewhat premature.  I am not going to stalk, or bully you and I don't mean to threaten you. Just remember, if you have any doubt that fighters, and skilled pilots are fearsome, please let me know.  I propose that we match crew to fighter count. You have one crew, I will engage myself. If you have 9, I will bring 9...but just fighters.

I like you, and you may be very well right. I will give you an opportunity to earn your answer.

Perma-death will only be a penalty to the safe :)

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25 minutes ago, Scotterius said:

Hello there. I am a fighter pilot. Please add my name to your contact list. When you hammerhead is flight ready (and sincerely, thanks for the support for star citizen) I would like to demonstrate that the statement 'Death of all fighters'...has been somewhat premature.  I am not going to stalk, or bully you and I don't mean to threaten you. Just remember, if you have any doubt that fighters, and skilled pilots are fearsome, please let me know.  I propose that we match crew to fighter count. You have one crew, I will engage myself. If you have 9, I will bring 9...but just fighters.

I like you, and you may be very well right. I will give you an opportunity to earn your answer.

Perma-death will only be a penalty to the safe :)

I like your style, pilot! Agreed... We shall put that to the test once the HH is operational and in game. I would very much like to record this match as well. It'll be for training sessions within Imperium. Agreed?

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20 hours ago, Zarian said:

The point that I was trying to make was that it makes little to no sense for one person to continue making attempts to solo bigger ships. That just opens the flood gates to cry about something else. 

Say you're allowed to solo a Polaris, Idris or even a Javelin... That's all fine and good (in the beginning). Then you see how so smart it is to command such huge vessels with an AI crew. The AI can be fooled and gotten over like in any other game. So now you've lost the pride and joy of your fleet to someone with a real crew. Now the complaint is, "the AI isn't good enough". So now troll tears run all over the forums, when CR has said from the beginning that the larger ships are MEANT to be crewed by human players and AI are to used to fill in the gaps at less important positions.

Wanna crew a massive ship solo? I believe that gameplay exists in Star Trek Online. Once you beam to your ship, the ship effectively becomes your avatar for space flight and fleet battles. 

Please don't mistake my honest thought process for that of @$$hole. I'm just soaking plainly on what I believe to be true. 

While commanding a Bengal Carrier or a Retribution Super Dreadnought would be awseome, it seriously lacks the gameplay element that the majority of backers desire in this game. 

Yea or nay what will be when it happens.is only conjecture. But no one here is avocateing  to run sole.in the frontier. They might try the safe areas .

But that is in the future.....still need to get thru 3.0    3.1,3.2 to beta max....

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1 hour ago, Rhehaud180 said:

Self Control:0

Hammerhead: 1

I own a Hammerhead now. Thanks everyone in this thread for talking me into it over paying for 10 small land plots when I already have ten large ones (plus one large one from a Pioneer)

Hopefully that Hammerhead will be patrolling the lands you decided to keep 😳😂

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7 hours ago, Rhehaud180 said:

Self Control:0

Hammerhead: 1

I own a Hammerhead now. Thanks everyone in this thread for talking me into it over paying for 10 small land plots when I already have ten large ones (plus one large one from a Pioneer)

Uooooooo shinny stufff, buy more

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On 12/8/2017 at 1:27 PM, Scotterius said:

Hello there. I am a fighter pilot. Please add my name to your contact list. When you hammerhead is flight ready (and sincerely, thanks for the support for star citizen) I would like to demonstrate that the statement 'Death of all fighters'...has been somewhat premature.  I am not going to stalk, or bully you and I don't mean to threaten you. Just remember, if you have any doubt that fighters, and skilled pilots are fearsome, please let me know.  I propose that we match crew to fighter count. You have one crew, I will engage myself. If you have 9, I will bring 9...but just fighters.

I like you, and you may be very well right. I will give you an opportunity to earn your answer.

Perma-death will only be a penalty to the safe :)

That's an obvious trick. 1 Hammerhead crew vs. 1 Fighter, the fighter has the "advantage" because 1 HH crew can only operate one turret at a time (I'm assuming that AI blades aren't permitted), and the fighter will just attack from an angle that the manned turret can't reach. Although, 1 fighter won't be able to inflict significant damage to the HH very quickly. It would be a long, tedious battle. A single mistake from the fighter pilot would be fatal. The fighter could blunder into the one manned turret's sights, or could be taken out by a Size3 missile. 1-on-1, the HH would either win, or get annoyed and jump away. The fighter pilot might call the latter a "win", but it didn't defeat the HH in battle, so it's a draw.

The Hammerhead will require a minimum of 7 crew members to fly the ship and operate its 6 manned turrets, 2 remote turrets, and 4 missile launchers. That would mean 7 fighters. As a Hammerhead owner, I like those odds. It might be handy for the HH to have a couple of extra crew to make repairs, but in this scenario, it would probably be smarter for the HH captain to only have 7 crew members.

7 fighters isn't enough for my Fighter Fist idea to work, because it requires some fighters to distract the HH with withering fire, while the Fighter Fist executes attack runs targeting one turret at a time. Even if 2 fighters tried to distract the HH's gunners, I don't believe 5 fighters have enough fire power to punch through the HH's shields in a single pass. And without sufficient fighters for distraction, the gunners will see the Fighter Fist coming, concentrate fire, and shred it at close range. So that won't work. The Fighter Fist tactic needs 15+ fighters to work.

I know that self-professed "fighter aces" think they'll be able to fly decoupled, dance around at max gun range, and rain down fire on the Hammerhead with impunity as they effortlessly dodge the gunship's turret-fire. :lol: Sure, that's as plausible as the Hammerhead just sitting still while the fighters sap its shields. And it's based on turrets being as ineffective against fighters as they are now. CIG has said they're working to improve manned gun turrets -- but we don't know how they'll do that yet. So I can't be certain that turrets will be better than they are now.

Regardless...

A smart HH captain will Afterburn-Cruise (ABC) away from the fighters, to either buy time for the shields to recharge, or force the fighters to pursue at ABC, wherein they have to travel in a straight line. Anyone who has flown in the PU and used the old Cruise Mode knows that ships flying at high speed have poor maneuverability. Even if the fighters keep their afterburners engaged (depleting their limited boost fuel), strafing will be ineffective at high speed because the ship's inertia resists rapid changes in direction. The HH's lead PiPs won't be moving much when the fighters are flying at ABC -- which is the only way they can keep up with the HH. The HH's dorsal, ventral, and aft-side turrets should all be able to fire backwards and concentrate their fire, and shred one fighter at a time. When the HH reaches its max ABC velocity, it should be able to decouple and maintain speed, then swing around and bring 5 of its 6 turrets to bear, and allow its aft shields to recharge.

I know that the fighters have greater acceleration and ABC top speed, so they can overtake the HH. But that won't be a significant advantage, because they'll still have limited maneuverability at ABC. Even if they fly ahead or parallel to the HH, then decouple and bring their forward weapons to bear on the HH, if they try to strafe to avoid the HH's fire, they'll decelerate from ABC and fall behind. And if they don't strafe, they'll get shredded. The fighters won't be able to sap the HH's shields while dodging its fire at ABC. The fighters will either be "sitting ducks" for the turrets or they won't be able to maintain pressure and the HH's shields will replenish. It'll be a battle of attrition that the fighters will inevitably lose.

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2 hours ago, Reavern said:

That's an obvious trick. 1 Hammerhead crew vs. 1 Fighter, the fighter has the "advantage" because 1 HH crew can only operate one turret at a time (I'm assuming that AI blades aren't permitted), and the fighter will just attack from an angle that the manned turret can't reach. Although, 1 fighter won't be able to inflict significant damage to the HH very quickly. It would be a long, tedious battle. A single mistake from the fighter pilot would be fatal. The fighter could blunder into the one manned turret's sights, or could be taken out by a Size3 missile. 1-on-1, the HH would either win, or get annoyed and jump away. The fighter pilot might call the latter a "win", but it didn't defeat the HH in battle, so it's a draw.

The Hammerhead will require a minimum of 7 crew members to fly the ship and operate its 6 manned turrets, 2 remote turrets, and 4 missile launchers. That would mean 7 fighters. As a Hammerhead owner, I like those odds. It might be handy for the HH to have a couple of extra crew to make repairs, but in this scenario, it would probably be smarter for the HH captain to only have 7 crew members.

7 fighters isn't enough for my Fighter Fist idea to work, because it requires some fighters to distract the HH with withering fire, while the Fighter Fist executes attack runs targeting one turret at a time. Even if 2 fighters tried to distract the HH's gunners, I don't believe 5 fighters have enough fire power to punch through the HH's shields in a single pass. And without sufficient fighters for distraction, the gunners will see the Fighter Fist coming, concentrate fire, and shred it at close range. So that won't work. The Fighter Fist tactic needs 15+ fighters to work.

I know that self-professed "fighter aces" think they'll be able to fly decoupled, dance around at max gun range, and rain down fire on the Hammerhead with impunity as they effortlessly dodge the gunship's turret-fire. :lol: Sure, that's as plausible as the Hammerhead just sitting still while the fighters sap its shields. And it's based on turrets being as ineffective against fighters as they are now. CIG has said they're working to improve manned gun turrets -- but we don't know how they'll do that yet. So I can't be certain that turrets will be better than they are now.

Regardless...

A smart HH captain will Afterburn-Cruise (ABC) away from the fighters, to either buy time for the shields to recharge, or force the fighters to pursue at ABC, wherein they have to travel in a straight line. Anyone who has flown in the PU and used the old Cruise Mode knows that ships flying at high speed have poor maneuverability. Even if the fighters keep their afterburners engaged (depleting their limited boost fuel), strafing will be ineffective at high speed because the ship's inertia resists rapid changes in direction. The HH's lead PiPs won't be moving much when the fighters are flying at ABC -- which is the only way they can keep up with the HH. The HH's dorsal, ventral, and aft-side turrets should all be able to fire backwards and concentrate their fire, and shred one fighter at a time. When the HH reaches its max ABC velocity, it should be able to decouple and maintain speed, then swing around and bring 5 of its 6 turrets to bear, and allow its aft shields to recharge.

I know that the fighters have greater acceleration and ABC top speed, so they can overtake the HH. But that won't be a significant advantage, because they'll still have limited maneuverability at ABC. Even if they fly ahead or parallel to the HH, then decouple and bring their forward weapons to bear on the HH, if they try to strafe to avoid the HH's fire, they'll decelerate from ABC and fall behind. And if they don't strafe, they'll get shredded. The fighters won't be able to sap the HH's shields while dodging its fire at ABC. The fighters will either be "sitting ducks" for the turrets or they won't be able to maintain pressure and the HH's shields will replenish. It'll be a battle of attrition that the fighters will inevitably lose.

15 fighters for the fighter fist to work? Man, oh man. That's a lot of resources for just one ship... So at minimum, 15 pilots to 2 pilots and 7 crew? Your expenses, repair costs and manpower expectations for training would be through the roof. If I may ask, what's the gameplan if/when you come across a group of Hammerheads? In my case, I purchased six HH's and a Polaris. And at a minimum, they will always work in pairs.  If you jump into a system prepared to take on one ship, but aren't aware of a second, third (much less a seventh) then what? The Hammerheads scanners reach much farther than a fighters. So you could potentially be walking your squadron into a trap with minimal opportunity to escape. 😕😓

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10 minutes ago, Rhehaud180 said:

Depending on sensor range of Polaris and Hammerhead I may leave the Super Hornet behind and use a Hornet Tracker (or a Terrapin if it will fit in a Polaris).

The Tracker also has a small radar. The Terrapin would be the better option as it has a medium radar and can take a pounding from incoming fire. And if CIG continues their trend of growing these ships, I'm sure the Terrapin will be able to fit in the hangar. 

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3 hours ago, Zarian said:

15 fighters for the fighter fist to work? Man, oh man. That's a lot of resources for just one ship... So at minimum, 15 pilots to 2 pilots and 7 crew? Your expenses, repair costs and manpower expectations for training would be through the roof. If I may ask, what's the gameplan if/when you come across a group of Hammerheads? In my case, I purchased six HH's and a Polaris. And at a minimum, they will always work in pairs.  If you jump into a system prepared to take on one ship, but aren't aware of a second, third (much less a seventh) then what? The Hammerheads scanners reach much farther than a fighters. So you could potentially be walking your squadron into a trap with minimal opportunity to escape. 😕😓

15 fighters is an estimate, of course. :rolleyes: I have no idea how strong the Hammerhead's shields are, so I don't know how many fighters will be needed to punch through and destroy a turret on a single pass. I guestimate 10 will be enough. The other 5 fighters are intended to distract the HH's other 5 turrets.

It shouldn't be surprising that the Hammerhead is a force multiplier against starfighters. Its primary role is anti-fighter gunship. If the only available ships are fighters, of course it will take a disproportionate number of fighters to defeat a HH. There are certainly better ways to take out a HH. But the scenario was Fighters vs. Hammerhead.

If I had to deal with multiple enemy Hammerheads, I'd use a combination of Ravens, Eclipses, Redeemers, and Prowlers. If Ravens are as stealthy as advertised, they can sneak up on the Hammerheads, pop their EMPs, and disable the HHs' shields, weapons, and engines, before the HH crews even knew they were there. I don't believe that visually spotting the Ravens on approach is realistic. By the time they're large enough to see, probably <500 metres distance, the HHs' gunners would only have a few seconds to react. I'm certain the Ravens could get within range and trigger their EMPs before the quad turrets fired on them. Then it would be too late.

The Eclipses would already be on attack runs and would launch their S9 torpedoes seconds after the EMPs fried the HHs. I doubt the torpedoes will miss the disabled HHs. I don't know if 3 x S9 torpedoes will guarantee-kill a Hammerhead, but they'll severely damage them and destroy at least some of their turrets. The Eclipses will be out of torpedoes so they'll withdraw and rearm.

The Redeemers would be idling (no shields, no weapons, minimal engines) 5-10 km from the Hammerheads (exact distance TBD based on testing the HH's sensors), and would power up after the EMPs disabled the HHs. They'd fly in to finish off the HHs after they're crippled by the Eclipses' torpedoes. Even if the HHs recovered from EMPs before the Redeemers closed to weapons range, their shields would be weak (if the shield gens weren't destroyed by the torpedo strikes) and the Redeemers could punch through their shields, destroy any operational gun turrets, and disable the HHs' engines and quantum drive.

The Redeemers could either destroy the crippled Hammerheads, or deploy boarders EVA -- plus boarders from Prowlers -- to board and capture the ships.

I believe this battle plan would be effective as both a surprise attack against unsuspecting Hammerheads, or during a battle-in-progress, involving two or more Hammerheads protecting cap ships or a convoy of mercantile transports. Regardless whether the Hammerheads' gunners were twiddling their thumbs or suppressing hostile fighters, the Ravens and Eclipses should be undetectable and take the HHs by surprise. The 1-2 punch of EMP+torpedoes should be enough to cripple or destroy the Hammerheads. To be fair, EMP+torpedoes should be enough to cripple or destroy most ships -- even an Idris or Javelin, given sufficient numbers of torpedoes.

I think that will be an effective battle plan against two or more Hammerheads, which will be very difficult to defend against or counter. Even if the HHs were supported by a dozen or more fighters, the Ravens should be able to slip past them and trigger their EMPs. Any fighters close to the HHs would be disabled. Any operable fighters probably wouldn't detect or see the Eclipses until after they launched their torpedoes. The odds of those fighters shooting down the torpedoes should be low.

I'm aware that this battle plan is dependent on the attackers owning some of the rarest ships in the game. I believe that Warlocks and Retaliators could be used instead of Ravens and Eclipses. More Warlocks would be needed to ensure at least one got within range to use its EMP. The Retaliators would start their torpedo runs from farther away to avoid detection and launch their torpedoes from longer range after the EMP. The torpedoes should strike the Hammerheads before their shields and weapons recovered from the EMP. The Talis would launch 4 x S9 torpedoes on their first run, and have 2 more to finish off any surviving Hammerheads. Even without stealth, Warlocks and Retaliators (or Harbingers or Gladiators) could achieve tactical surprise and catch the HHs off guard.

There's also my stealth board-&-capture plan using Prowlers or possibly Cutlass Blacks.

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5 hours ago, Reavern said:

The Eclipses would already be on attack runs and would launch their S9 torpedoes seconds after the EMPs fried the HHs. I doubt the torpedoes will miss the disabled HHs. I don't know if 3 x S9 torpedoes will guarantee-kill a Hammerhead, but they'll severely damage them and destroy at least some of their turrets. The Eclipses will be out of torpedoes so they'll withdraw and rearm.

With the immense cost of torps in the game, I hope that campaign is successful to justify the cost of replacing said torpedos.

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7 hours ago, Zarian said:

With the immense cost of torps in the game, I hope that campaign is successful to justify the cost of replacing said torpedos.

I agree that torpedoes will be expensive, but an Eclipse won't be as expensive to rearm as a Tali or cap ships. Also, the battle plan I described would involve a well organized and equipped Org, which would be picking up the tab for the ordinance expended.

If the goal is simply to destroy the Hammerheads, then Eclipses and torpedoes are the best way to accomplish that objective. From a profit-vs.-cost analysis, it would be better to use Prowlers and Cutlass Blacks to B&C the Hammerheads, and hold the bombers in reserve as Plan-B.

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And the Hammerhead costs what, $650, $550 with Warbond?  Ok I looked it up, and that's right.

How much will your 7 fighters (if they outfit the Hammerhead with 7 crew as suggested) cost?  Far more, I'd wager.  It could be less, but if you have a lineup of the < $100 fighters and beat the Hammerhead, I'd be even more impressed.

Or Reavern's Fighter Fist?  So, so much more.

The fact is that the Hammerhead does more with less people and fewer resources than just about any other ship.  Certainly more at its primary role.  Or at least, that's how CIG has presented it to us.  They still have a lot of turret balancing to do.

Just remember, large and capital ships need to be "worth it" compared to everyone flying a single-seater, or else the game breaks down.  They should only not be this effective if crewed by AI crew.  So even if the seven most skilled fighter pilots in the 'verse can't take out a Hammerhead crewed by seven average players, without the use of non-fighters, I would not agree that a nerf is appropriate.  Just saying this in advance.

Oh yeah one more thing.  Just from playing Planetside 2, and having gunned that games' Galaxies and Liberators fairly often.  The most skilled single seater pilots in the game can't really take one out by themselves with a competent pilot and gunner.  Life is many times cheaper there, so the balance concerns are different, but the skill-based task of putting a turret on the best fighter pilot players in the game is not difficult for an average gunner.  It remains to be seen if CIG can make the turrets aim as well as they do in PS2 though.

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23 hours ago, Boildown said:

Oh yeah one more thing.  Just from playing Planetside 2, and having gunned that games' Galaxies and Liberators fairly often.  The most skilled single seater pilots in the game can't really take one out by themselves with a competent pilot and gunner.  Life is many times cheaper there, so the balance concerns are different, but the skill-based task of putting a turret on the best fighter pilot players in the game is not difficult for an average gunner.  It remains to be seen if CIG can make the turrets aim as well as they do in PS2 though.

This could be a whole other topic, and I would enjoy it. Turret design in Star Citizen suffers from some unique challenges when compared to a game like Planet side 2, which I am not very familiar with. But, after reading this I watched about an hour of video looking at how turrets worked in that game. Some challenges that SC faces are:

1. Fighters seem more mobile.

2. Projectiles are visible.

3. Combat against ships with turrets happens at much longer range (it is really hard to see the fighter), giving a longer time to avoid incoming fire.

4. Game is balanced to be fun from the Star Fighter perspective, it is Chris Roberts and it is Squadron 42 too. This makes it hard to change many of the traits that make Star Fighters survivable and potent. 

It will be interesting. I completely agree with you, that turret positions have to be fun.  I also agree that NPCs and AI turrets sound far less interesting than giving incentives to players to take roles.

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23 hours ago, Boildown said:

And the Hammerhead costs what, $650, $550 with Warbond?  Ok I looked it up, and that's right.

How much will your 7 fighters (if they outfit the Hammerhead with 7 crew as suggested) cost?  Far more, I'd wager.  It could be less, but if you have a lineup of the < $100 fighters and beat the Hammerhead, I'd be even more impressed.

Or Reavern's Fighter Fist?  So, so much more.

The fact is that the Hammerhead does more with less people and fewer resources than just about any other ship.  Certainly more at its primary role.  Or at least, that's how CIG has presented it to us.  They still have a lot of turret balancing to do.

Just remember, large and capital ships need to be "worth it" compared to everyone flying a single-seater, or else the game breaks down.  They should only not be this effective if crewed by AI crew.  So even if the seven most skilled fighter pilots in the 'verse can't take out a Hammerhead crewed by seven average players, without the use of non-fighters, I would not agree that a nerf is appropriate.  Just saying this in advance.

Oh yeah one more thing.  Just from playing Planetside 2, and having gunned that games' Galaxies and Liberators fairly often.  The most skilled single seater pilots in the game can't really take one out by themselves with a competent pilot and gunner.  Life is many times cheaper there, so the balance concerns are different, but the skill-based task of putting a turret on the best fighter pilot players in the game is not difficult for an average gunner.  It remains to be seen if CIG can make the turrets aim as well as they do in PS2 though.

It's ridiculous to compare pledge prices with in-game UEC prices. As expensive as pledge ships are, they're nothing compared to the UEC prices in-game.

Firstly, CIG has stated that low tier ships will triple in price when converted to UECs. For example, a F7C Hornet costs $110, and backers can buy 110,000 UECs for $110. Whereas CIG said that the F7C's UEC price in-game will be 300,000 UECs.

Second, the $$ to UECs multiplier will increase exponentially with higher tier ships. For example, the $2500 Javelin Destroyer is rumoured to cost 25,000,000 UECs! That's 10x the $$ price instead of 3X.

That would mean the $650 Hammerhead could be 6,500,000 UECs. That's equal to 21.67 F7Cs. I estimate the Fighter Fist will only require 15 fighters. :P

And a Raven + Eclipse + (3 x S9 torpedoes) should be even more effective and cost effective than the Fighter Fist. I estimate the Raven's $$ price would be $250, which equates to 750,000 UECs. The Eclipse's $$ price was $275, so it would be 825,000 UECs. Combined they'd be 1/4 the cost of a Hammerhead.

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1 hour ago, Reavern said:

It's ridiculous to compare pledge prices with in-game UEC prices. As expensive as pledge ships are, they're nothing compared to the UEC prices in-game.

Firstly, CIG has stated that low tier ships will triple in price when converted to UECs. For example, a F7C Hornet costs $110, and backers can buy 110,000 UECs for $110. Whereas CIG said that the F7C's UEC price in-game will be 300,000 UECs.

Second, the $$ to UECs multiplier will increase exponentially with higher tier ships. For example, the $2500 Javelin Destroyer is rumoured to cost 25,000,000 UECs! That's 10x the $$ price instead of 3X.

That would mean the $650 Hammerhead could be 6,500,000 UECs. That's equal to 21.67 F7Cs. I estimate the Fighter Fist will only require 15 fighters. :P

And a Raven + Eclipse + (3 x S9 torpedoes) should be even more effective and cost effective than the Fighter Fist. I estimate the Raven's $$ price would be $250, which equates to 750,000 UECs. The Eclipse's $$ price was $275, so it would be 825,000 UECs. Combined they'd be 1/4 the cost of a Hammerhead.

Awesome breakdown! So does that mean the Aegis Cruiser (when it comes out) will be in the neighborhood of 180,000,000 UEC? Sheesh! Better grinding in beta then.

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Two things PS2 players deal with that SC players won't, when using turrets: In Planetside 2, bullet drop is a thing, and having to compensate for it is a challenge.  Not a thing in space battles (technically it probably should be at low orbits though...).  And in Planetside 2, the projectile velocities are really slow.  I think Star Citizen's are way higher for the weapons most likely to be found on a Hammerhead, i.e. lasers.  But this is more a gut feeling, I haven't looked up the latest numbers.

Probably true that prices will go up exponentially in in-game UEC. They really have to or else "everyone will be flying an Idris" in short order.  Not really sure that it'll blow up my Hammerhead example though, once we have the final prices.  And in your counter, remember that this is a fighter TC, not bomber.  No torpedoes.

So far CIG has indicated that no (military) ships bigger than the Javelin will be buyable.  I assume this to mean in-game or out-of-game.  So the stretch-goal Cruiser will have to be found/salvaged/stolen in-game instead of bought.  And then defended 24/7, they won't have an "owner" and as such they won't disappear when whoever has possession logs out.

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