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Devil Khan

Hammerhead - Corvette Anti-fighter

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I really didn't like this architect's critique of the 600i (and you can see my comments posted on SCB and Spectrum) - and I think he probably read my comment on Spectrum and dramatically improved his critique of the Andromeda / Aquila / Phoenix and Hammerhead.   One way I kinda know he saw my post was that he comments about how an aerospace engineer may design something different than an architect for a spaceship (and I am both and that was part of my critique of his video).   Anyway he did a nice job here - check it out. 

 

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I hate to be negative about the Hammerbed - I own one!

And it has such a beautiful exterior too!

 

But the interior is like mole rat tunnels connecting to more mole rat tunnels.  Only rodents could be happy in there...
And the "bridge" is so small, it doesn't deserve the name.

The worst has to be the terribad view from the turrets..

I swear you'll be better off with NPC turrets, because players will have a hard time to hit anything, sitting in those...

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Really... I thought the HH was probably one of the easiest to get around in.  2 Main corridors, all clearly marked, 2 elevators and another for cargo.  mehhh....

NOW THE STARFARER....... That's a hot freaking mess.  If CIG needed another $5k to redesign the Starfarer interior I would wire them the money right NOW.  

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Getting around isn't the problem, as long as you don't mind mole rat tunnels, that are not only fugly, but also basically waste what little space could be in that ship.

Remember how CIG just got through removing hallways from the Carrack, to get more usable space in a smaller volume?

 

And yes, the Starcrapper is a hot mess, you're right.  But just because you found something even worse doesn't make the other thing ok...

 

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2 minutes ago, Pharesm said:

snip

The Carrack is an exploration ship that needs everything and the kitchen sink to come with it. The Hammerhead is a warship designed to a series of tubes leading to important action stations. It doesn't need space for anything else other than its crew.

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4 minutes ago, J. Coren said:

The Carrack is an exploration ship that needs everything and the kitchen sink to come with it. The Hammerhead is a warship designed to a series of tubes leading to important action stations. It doesn't need space for anything else other than its crew.

"need" -  there's still the option of having those rat tunnels look like proper hallways - maybe even match the stylish exterior, instead of looking like a dog's breakfast.

And the ship DOES have more than the tunnels.  All that could be better arranged and better designed.

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On 12/3/2018 at 9:51 PM, Pharesm said:

I hate to be negative about the Hammerbed - I own one!

And it has such a beautiful exterior too!

 

But the interior is like mole rat tunnels connecting to more mole rat tunnels.  Only rodents could be happy in there...
And the "bridge" is so small, it doesn't deserve the name.

The worst has to be the terribad view from the turrets..

I swear you'll be better off with NPC turrets, because players will have a hard time to hit anything, sitting in those...

spend 20 minutes lost in a Starfarer and you'll see that the Hammerhead defines simplicity as the hallmark of genius

edit:  oh damn, somebody beat me to the comparison

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Honestly I think the Hammerhead is more respectable on the inside than any modern navy interiors.  I was going to put some photos of the interior of an LCS or navy patrol boat for reference but I couldn't find any decent images.  Apparently the United States Navy doesn't like posting images of modern sea craft interiors?  Anyways, from what I've seen of modern military ship interiors on videos and such they look significantly more spartan than the insides of the Hammerhead.  I wouldn't exactly call the hallways rat tunnels either, you can stand up fully and still get some head room.

 

I don't know what people are expecting.  The Hammerhead is a military vessel through and through and it sports more creature comforts than frankly make sense for such a ship, but I suppose we can chalk that up to technology allowing for bit of excess in the far flung future.  The ship is incredibly easy to get around, after a minute or so inside I was confident that I could navigate it almost blindfolded in the future.  Sure I have some complaints about a few things, like the central hole that is a tad bit silly and the omission of a small crew weapons locker (much has already been said about this) but in terms of overall layout and interior design I think it's a fine ship.

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1 hour ago, Dabclipers said:

Honestly I think the Hammerhead is more respectable on the inside than any modern navy interiors.  I was going to put some photos of the interior of an LCS or navy patrol boat for reference but I couldn't find any decent images.  Apparently the United States Navy doesn't like posting images of modern sea craft interiors?  Anyways, from what I've seen of modern military ship interiors on videos and such they look significantly more spartan than the insides of the Hammerhead.  I wouldn't exactly call the hallways rat tunnels either, you can stand up fully and still get some head room.

 

I don't know what people are expecting.  The Hammerhead is a military vessel through and through and it sports more creature comforts than frankly make sense for such a ship, but I suppose we can chalk that up to technology allowing for bit of excess in the far flung future.  The ship is incredibly easy to get around, after a minute or so inside I was confident that I could navigate it almost blindfolded in the future.  Sure I have some complaints about a few things, like the central hole that is a tad bit silly and the omission of a small crew weapons locker (much has already been said about this) but in terms of overall layout and interior design I think it's a fine ship.

There are different levels of design.

The most basic design goals are fulfilled by the Hammerhead's tunnels:  

- humans can walk upright - check.

- wall padding for injury prevention - check.

- all areas of the ship can be reached by those tunnels - check.

 

Any human being with half a brain should be able to hit those goals, when concepting and building a vessel.

 

But there is much more:

- The Exterior has a great design - it looks like an advanced, high tech, far future military design.  Maybe a powerful Sith Lord would fly around in something like that.

- The interior does not match the exterior at all.  In every measurable design aspect, the two are simply unrelated.

- Its like someone melded a stylish empire ship with the frumpy interior of a rebel alliance ship.

- The tunnels are too long, far too much of the ships interior consists of only tunnels.

- this is a sci-fi space sim game, not a representation of barren present day military designs - we wouldn't need to play a game for that, we could just sign on with the navy.

 

What I think this ship needs is:

1)  cutting down of tunnel length - converting more of the interior into generally usable spaces, rather than just tunnels - sufficient space is there.

2)  match the interior design with the exterior - its currently far too obvious that exterior and interior weren't done by the same people, and more to the point, they never seem to have talked to each other about matching up styles

3) the turrets are just awful - such heavily curtailed vision is not FUN, and B29 Bombers from WWII had one hell of a better view.

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14 hours ago, Pharesm said:

- The Exterior has a great design - it looks like an advanced, high tech, far future military design.  Maybe a powerful Sith Lord would fly around in something like that.

- The interior does not match the exterior at all.  In every measurable design aspect, the two are simply unrelated.

- Its like someone melded a stylish empire ship with the frumpy interior of a rebel alliance ship.

- this is a sci-fi space sim game, not a representation of barren present day military designs - we wouldn't need to play a game for that, we could just sign on with the navy.

2)  match the interior design with the exterior - its currently far too obvious that exterior and interior weren't done by the same people, and more to the point, they never seem to have talked to each other about matching up styles

When creating a universe it is important that objects or vehicles tell the story of that universe.  In Star Wars we have powerful beings such as Sith Lords who operate in a military sense and therefore need powerful combat warships but also have strong ego's and inflated sense of self, leading to lavish interiors and dark spaces to match their status as powerful beings of the dark side.  The inverse can be seen in ships used by the Jedi, who while having the same powers and position as Sith have significantly more utilitarian designs of their spacecraft and favor lighter, friendlier colors.  Star Wars isn't a universe about realism of course and almost nothing of their design choices can be tied to real world shipbuilding which is totally fine, a universe can be exactly as the creator intends.  Star Citizen is created with a very different intention, focusing on a realistic universe that is immersive due to the parallels it has with the world we actually live in.  While the designers at CIG obviously care about making ships attractive so that people want to own them, they also stick to what would make sense in the world they've created which mirrors our own.

 

Aegis has a very specific style guide for creating ships that can be seen in each and every one of their designs.  Retaliator, Sabre, Vanguard, Hammerhead or Eclipse all have black angular plating that sweeps backward and maintains flow.  While this doesn't match real life military designs, at a glance we can subconsciously accept that it looks like a series of sensible design choices for space combat.  Making the interior black and angular might have certainly made it look more attractive, but it would have seriously detracted from the sense of realism that they want the players to feel and made it difficult to suspend ones disbelief.  When you enter the ship most everything you see will exist to fulfill the role of making the interior safe and easy to navigate for its crew.  No other considerations were needed because that's all that matters for a military ship.

 

14 hours ago, Pharesm said:

3) the turrets are just awful - such heavily curtailed vision is not FUN, and B29 Bombers from WWII had one hell of a better view.

Assuming you're talking about the struts that cover up a large portion of the turret viewports it might look obtrusive at first glance but in reality you don't feel obstructed at all when using them.  I've spent probably close to two hours at this point in my Hammerhead turrets and when engagements happen it's not difficult at all to keep targets within the central window that has more than enough space to track the enemy movements.  Honestly I hadn't seen anyone complaining about turret visibility until here, it's nowhere near as bad as being a pilot on a Constellation where while the struts take up less percentage of the screen than those on the Hammerhead turrets they have a central convergence which blocks frontal view to an extent.

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"inflated sense of self" 

funny...  a strong sense of self doesn't necessarily mean "inflated"

You are the ruler (to a greater or lesser degree) over 50 trillion living cells, each possessing its own intelligence and sense of self.)  So the personal kingdom of your body is unimaginably larger than the entire human population on this planet.

 

Maybe, in fact, you just have a shriveled up of self? 

 

I feel it perfectly normal to want my surroundings to be exceptional, excellent.  That doesn't mean "lavish" it could mean "spartan" as designers call sparsely decorated or un-decorated spaces.  If design is not your line of work, you wouldn't have to study or work your whole life in design to understand poor design. But a strong sense of how nature designs things will help.

And some times, you may set out to design something - trying to make it good, but its just not your day and it turns out shabby for whatever reason. - that happens to designers all the time. You just have to know when to scrap it.

 

Remember Mark Skelton?  His laughable idea of good design was "enough greebles".   The Hammerhead tunnels probably would be a success to Mr. Skelton. Its full of greebles  🤣

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The main thing I'm currently hoping for is to get at least a few weapon-racks spread around the ship (or have 2 in the crew quarters) :)

To me it makes no sense that a military combat ship has no means to store weapons while a luxury touring ship has an entire armory. 😖

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2 hours ago, Danakar Endeel said:

The main thing I'm currently hoping for is to get at least a few weapon-racks spread around the ship (or have 2 in the crew quarters) :)

To me it makes no sense that a military combat ship has no means to store weapons while a luxury touring ship has an entire armory. 😖

It's been a while since I last checked, but isn't the room that leads off the HH mess hall one that can/will be used as an armory?

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9 hours ago, LowZone said:

It's been a while since I last checked, but isn't the room that leads off the HH mess hall one that can/will be used as an armory?

Maybe, but last time I checked there was no way to store weapons anywhere on the ship. Which is strange when other non-military and/or smaller ships do have weapon racks.

I mean I guess you can replace some of the EVA suits with armor as you don't really need 10 EVA suits, but there's no area that I've seen where one can store rifles.

All they have to do is add some racks to a wall and that would work :)

Hammer-weaponrack.jpg.e652b7624f31a40bb309b032ce3cc7ff.jpg

ken-fairclough-hightech-weaponsrack-medconcept.thumb.jpg.e38bf28118acb972c3315fb647004786.jpg

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