3.0 Production Schedule

[Devil Khan]

24 player max is what there aiming for 3.0 and we have known about this from AtV and such comm-links

Sorry, 24 min player they are hoping for.

[Pharesm]

4 minutes ago, Devil Khan said:

24 player max is what there aiming for 3.0 and we have known about this from AtV and such comm-links

Sounds prudent...

After all, they have to tune things so people can easily test what CIG wants them to test...

[LowZone]

3 hours ago, Pharesm said:

Sounds prudent...

After all, they have to tune things so people can easily test what CIG wants them to test...

At this stage, I fail to see the relevance of public testing. Aside from stress testing the servers, the main benefit from Evocati test groups now seems to be allowing CIG advertisers (i.e. Youtubers) time to produce content as soon as the NDA is lifted.

Sorry to be so cynical, I think all this waiting is getting to me!

[Donut]

10 minutes ago, LowZone said:

At this stage, I fail to see the relevance of public testing. Aside from stress testing the servers, the main benefit from Evocati test groups now seems to be allowing CIG advertisers (i.e. Youtubers) time to produce content as soon as the NDA is lifted.

Sorry to be so cynical, I think all this waiting is getting to me!

Public texting allows CIG to see how the servers handle everyone, what mechanics work and don't work. One of the reasons trade and industry was bumped to the front is because many people saw how empty it is in the PU and didn't want exploration to be just as mind numbing. The feedback is important, much more so than a handful of people at CIG and Evocati. Perhapos if you took a look at the issue council you would understand.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council

[Devil Khan]

Not cynic, more like ignorant unfortunately. Evocati are there to stress test with a much larger group x20-x30 times larger at least. Also PTU will have several bugs that they won't find. Such as Several (thousand) variant of system specs EG GFX and CPU.  

 

[LowZone]

Like i said, aside from stress testing the servers (which includes testing on different system specs), public testing has its limits. If they were really interested in how specific features affect gameplay why not test those specific systems separately with time to implement changes if necessary. For example, why not have an Arena Commander style mode where say planetside effects can be tested (even if only in single player)? 

I have been a part of PTU testing/issue council reporting since the beginning and have seen first hand how most bugs found are sometimes overlooked in favour of going live. I am pretty sure most of the issues found (at least in the PTU phase) are already known to QA/Evocati and that PTU testing is mainly to test server stability and other issues related to this.

 

 

[Donut]

Spoiler

Here's everything that was of interest from Erin Robert's Q&A:

• 3.0's player count will be at least "what we have now" (I assume he means 24 and not 12 like in the current 3.0 demo)
• There will be a 12km station in SQ42. It's going to have an important role in the story. I think it's already been made.
• When asked about the 600i they all laughed and looked at each other, then skipped over the question. Looks like that's going to be announced tomorrow.
• The ships team has been making ships like mad. It seemed like he was hinting that the 600i + some others will be in 3.0. That seems to tie in with this: New ships Instagram teaser
• Mining will not be in 3.0, but will be the next feature in the game after cargo.
• Proper persistence will be in 3.0. Where you logout is where you will spawn back in.
• You can set your respawn point. I imagine you go to the location and then it will be an option when talking to an NPC or something so you can't just teleport across the system.
• Complete network rework for 3.0. They're in the process of converting the gameplay systems over to make it all work.
• Seems like 2.6.3 had a memory leak which made the server performance degrade over time.
• You can 'link' quantum drive in 3.0, meaning that you can quantum travel with your friends.
• The more expensive the ship, the longer wait time for insurance
• You can buy ships in 3.0 (Not 3.0, but possibly 3.1) with aUEC.

If I've missed something or made a mistake, please comment it and I'll add it. Overall we got quite a bit of information out of that.

EDITS:

• They working on min of 30 server ticks for 3.0 (/u/STARMEDIC_HQ)
• When asked about solo-piloting an Idris, Erin replied "Of course you can fly an Idris by your own, but you cannot fully operate it by your own. The Idris is therefore made for groups. Also it would be good to perform drills with your group to be effective in live action." (/u/fr4nticstar)

 

 

 

[Pharesm]

Thanks for that, Donut!

As for the Idris - well, of course you can get into the pilot's seat by yourself, try to drive it from one place to another and hope you don't meet anybody who doesn't run away at the sight of an Idris (since he has no way of knowing that you are piloting it with only a dunce's hat to keep you company.

But at the same time, Erin's too-short answer to a complex subject makes no reference to NPC crew - which (yadda yadda) will be less effective than:

- Players that know what they're doing

- Players that didn't go afk for a multitude of reasons

- Players that didn't just get on the phone with their girlfriend

- Players that aren't watching Star Trek re-runs in an overlay window or on a secondary display (I used to do that in EVE)

- Players that aren't double-crossing you

- Players that don't know what they're doing or simply never got good at playing the game.

 

This would leave ample room for NPC crews to actually be better than ~half of the other guy's player crew...

 

So, I still think NPC crews will (always) be viable for manning multi-crew ships, where you'll only really be in trouble if the other ship has a crackin' team of a crew, who are perfectly syncronized with each other - similar to MMORPG guild raid groups, that are always first to clear any new raid content on their server. 

 

 

[CyberianK]

so Reddit says 3.0 has been gone to Evocati

also they will be testing the new patcher as well with incremental patching

and Concierge will be next wave for PTU after Evocati NDA phase

[Devil Khan]

it is the opening comment on AtV

[CyberianK]

3.0 patch notes:

https://pastebin.com/ns8vTSp4

[Pharesm]

33 minutes ago, Devil Khan said:

it is the opening comment on AtV

haha, that's funny....

 

But the Star Citizen Base notification of CyberianK's post reached me before ATV did. (its 4am on Friday in the Pacific about a thousand miles south of Japan)

So that should be worth something 

[Devil Khan]

Did I say anything in reference to that timeline?

[Gremlich]

On 8/16/2017 at 5:34 PM, LowZone said:

At this stage, I fail to see the relevance of public testing. Aside from stress testing the servers, the main benefit from Evocati test groups now seems to be allowing CIG advertisers (i.e. Youtubers) time to produce content as soon as the NDA is lifted.

Sorry to be so cynical, I think all this waiting is getting to me!

what is being done is normal for a game at this stage in development - barely an Alpha. "Public" testing by leveraging the SC community is one of the best things that CIG can be doing. Logistically, think of the money and, MOST importantly, the time they are saving by stressing the "game" with as many "testers" as possible. Think of this, a company has a game, they are at a point where internal testers are used - how many, probably less than 10. Then they go Beta using a larger body of testers - say 50-100, then, they choose early access (which is what you know to actually be "Public Testing") which nets them many more testers from the gaming community - several hundreds? Thousands? Dunno. Then they release it and the community howls because some things didn't get caught (bugs, gameplay issues, network issues, etc) issues they could have found with another level of bug testing/access. CIG can leverage two more levels beyond the Evocati before they release to the general backer community and before game release to the "Public" that you are referring to. AND they do this for EVERY patch. That tells us that they are being better at their development process than EA, etc and they aren't motivated by the earnings potential - a situation which produces released games that people bitch about for years. Examples of games that could have benefited from more testing on a broader scale before general release? NMS, ME:A, COD:IW are just a few. AND two of those from large, well established companies who started with large staffs from the get go, no less.

Your view isn't cynical, it's uninformed and based more on impatience. Gamers writ large are used to getting a game within 3-4 months of it being announced. CIG made a difficult decision to be open about their development - but neglected to define "open development" first - an act that might have served to stave off the more negative of the gaming community. Frankly, anybody outside of the backer community is irrelevant to the discussion about CIG and its production schedule.

[Pharesm]

I'd agree with you on that, including most of the details...

The more free testing they can mobilize, the bigger the benefit for the game.

Corralling bugs early - like for each patch - is extremely important, because the possibility exists in large complex developments, that bugs spiral out of control, forcing retreat to some much earlier code base - which could even force a studio to abandon development for lack of money to restart from a much earlier point. Not to mention debilitating frustration caused to the programmers...

 

There's really only 3 tings that bother me about CIG:

- Other than pre-produced one-way videos, their communication is poor. "Community managers" do not engage the community, they just invisibly "manage content" behind the scenes. Their title is a misnomer and there is not a single soul who's job it is to directly engage the community on ANY two-way medium (like spectrum)

- A marketing department that loves every dirty trick you'd expect from EA and their kind

- In many aspects, the game is not what was pitched to me back when - this amounts to many features that I'm not just indifferent to, but which make it a worse game for me personally, by adding enough logistics to make it another game that turns into a full time job, rather than purely a {GAME}.

I didn't back for a real world imitation, we already have the (laborious) real world with that shitty capitalism - i.e. the rule of bankers and their fraudulent money pyramid...  So, I'd love to escape to a game that lives by a great story and not by making me work hard on logistics.  If I wanted logistics galore, I'd go work for FedEx.

 

Imagine that money... its a pyramid scheme and the bankers had the gall to print a pyramid on it...  They think we are idiots.

[LowZone]

5 hours ago, Gremlich said:

 

Your view isn't cynical, it's uninformed and based more on impatience. Gamers writ large are used to getting a game within 3-4 months of it being announced. CIG made a difficult decision to be open about their development - but neglected to define "open development" first - an act that might have served to stave off the more negative of the gaming community. Frankly, anybody outside of the backer community is irrelevant to the discussion about CIG and its production schedule.

 

I'll agree I was uninformed when I made that statement nearly two months ago. It was an opinion (that I probably should have better phrased) based on previous releases on how things may appear to those not closely following the project, which I addressed in a later post. Since then, we were able to see the current state of the game at Gamescom and we (the uninformed masses) now have much more information of which areas of game play Evocati are testing which was not commonly known before. 

Guess I was wrong to offer an alternative opinion in a mature forum and expect to not get flamed for it...

 

[Gremlich]

38 minutes ago, Pharesm said:

the game is not what was pitched to me back when

Indeed, and the community, when asked, said "Okay, make it MOAR" and so they are. The game, as pitched, was a remake of Freelancer and it is now more of that on a grander scale.

 

43 minutes ago, Pharesm said:

their communication is poor.

No disagreement there. Communication is bad because their PR and marketing teams are not pros, plain and simply. It'd be like having any of us trying to do those things. I cringe to think what I'd be doing, what with how many different POVs looking at CIG? Gad, boggles the mind in a scary way.

 

41 minutes ago, Pharesm said:

by adding enough logistics to make it another game that turns into a full time job, rather than purely a {GAME}

Frankly, you are really in the minority of backers. I'd rather it not be like most games. That's why I don't play a lot of them - they are all rinse, repeat affairs that look different with just enough variations.

 

24 minutes ago, LowZone said:

Guess I was wrong to offer an alternative opinion in a mature forum and expect to not get flamed for it...

You've got a thin skin if you think you're getting flamed here. Our responses have been mature and respectful, your response above, however, suggests otherwise. It's not like we said that you're stoopid, now, is it, because we know you aren't and we didn't. Uninformed is just lacking information, not intellect - don't conflate the two. I don't think "poorly informed" would have changed the tone at all.

[LowZone]

Just in case my initial post gets a response months from now, I feel I should clarify further:

Perhaps I should not I have said public testing is irrelevant (it is, in fact, crucial) but rather the need for a non disclosure agreement for such testing is not necessary.

You will find that when it comes to Star Citizen  I am more patient than most and in the days before Evocati, I was quite happy to be among the first testers of each buggy PTU build. Yes, it crashed every 5 minutes and I didn't mind having to download large patches, sometimes, multiple times a day. That was part of the fun of seeing progress made and many backers felt the same way.

In recent years, CIG have shifted their focus to attracting new players over giving original and veteran backers what they want. Gone are the days where we were being polled on everything from the next  design concept to the overall development time itself. It really did feel like open development back then. Now, it seems the veterans are largely forgotten and backers are offered various incentives to bring new players in the game.

Understandably, new players provide CIG with an ongoing revenue stream and I wouldn't have a problem with this except for the fact that the game in its current state is not yet ready for new players. I've lost count of how many times I have had to help a newbie or am tempted to offer counter arguments to those that criticise the state of the game over global chat in the PU/Arena Commander. Hopefully this will change after 3.0

Going back to my original statement, it seems that the NDA in place for Evocati is because CIG is afraid that any leaked footage of buggy game play will deter new players when in reality it would give reassurances to long time backers like myself that progress is steadily being made, especially during the longest period between patch releases since the Hangar module.

[Gremlich]

8 hours ago, LowZone said:

it seems that the NDA in place for Evocati is because CIG is afraid that any leaked footage of buggy game play will....

I would lay odds that the NDA is to keep detractors from engaging in Trade Defamation/Libel. Most players know this is an "ALPHA" and not having an NDA in place would give the Goons and Butt Fedoras like "He who shall not be named" fuel and fodder in the way of manipulated/edited screenshots and video for their FUD campaign against CIG.

While I respect your point of view, I believe CIG's's Evocati NDA protects their intellectual property (currently very buggy) from being used against them, because look what they do now. When the Evocati are done with their efforts, then no NDA and the Trolls won't matter and we'll have a better build.

[Boildown]

Didn't "he" promise to release Evocati gameplay video and data as soon as it went to that group, because he has "people" in that group willing to violate the NDA to get the "truth" out?

I'm still waiting to see it.

[Gremlich]

1 hour ago, Boildown said:

Didn't "he" promise to release Evocati gameplay video and data as soon as it went to that group

LOLZ, he's been showing vids from the 2.6 builds that someone like 4chan or the goons from SA are either giving him or posting where he can get them.

[Donut]

 

Spoiler

 

This picturesque sunset might take your breath away but don’t worry. Oxygen towers also occupy this vista to provide relief to those running out of breath. When landing on a world without a naturally breathable atmosphere, these towers could literally be a lifesaver.

 

 

[LowZone]

A recent (unverified) interview with an Evocati tester posted on reddit gives some insight on the current state of 3.0. Much of the information is to be expected and I wish CIG were able to release an official Evocati interview to general backers in order to manage some unrealistic expectations of how long these Evocati phases will take (months not weeks).

Personally, I think it's good to see that where the current issues are and that the delta patcher is working. Once implemented, it may mean that subsequent patches won't need quite as much polish and therefore be more frequent.  

[Porcupine]

Sounds like the answer to "what state is 3.0 in" can mostly be summed up as "the crankshaft is still on the shop floor"...

[Pharesm]

2 hours ago, Porcupine said:

Sounds like the answer to "what state is 3.0 in" can mostly be summed up as "the crankshaft is still on the shop floor"...

I see now, why people be cranky