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Donut

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Recently been wanting to ditch my G930's for more fidelity in music and gaming. I've come across "open back" headphones and everybody says they're great. However, I cannot go back to stereo sound after using Dolby digital surround for the past 7 years.

Did some research into digital 7.1 surround and wanted to ask which Sennheiser, Audio Technica, or Fostex would be the best to plug into a DAC/Amp that reproduces digital surround, and which DAC/Amp should I go with? My budget is $200 or under for the headset alone and then add a DAC/Amp. Mic not required, deciding to go with a ModMic clip on if it isn't included with the headphones.

I had a look at a couple of each brand and have looked into reviews of both:

http://a.co/4FsIL4A

http://a.co/gDhHuO0

http://a.co/1kv5eQI

 

(Edit: Literally just read about "semi open" headphones so if anyone has any recommendations on those, let me know :) I believe two out of the three are semi open that are linked)

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I've been using Open Back headphones for around 3 years now and changed from Dolby Digital as well, I've enjoyed my experience and consider it an upgrade from my dolby digital experience. I have an Equalizers, sound card, plus a variety of headphones that can produce the sounds I'm looking for, rather that be bassy or geared to gaming.

 I'm a Sennheiser fan since I've left the "Gaming headsets", Mic being separate from the headphones, but Sennheiser also provide a good headsets if that's what you're into. The HD 598 I used for about 2 years and I loved them so much. Comfort is my number one priority closely followed by sound for gaming, so I don't need anything too extreme but they did an amazing job and still are, but I decided to upgrade recently to another pair Sennheiser HD headphones. 

Out of the three you linked, I've personally heard good things about the M50's being the go to headphones over the years but I'd also get @TheOnly to put in his opinion since he's helped me with both of my headphones and sound card. :P

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So it is possible to get better than DD surround on open back headsets? And you recommend the M50's? How much of an improvement do you believe it is over the DD surround that Logitech uses for their G930/G933? Which DAC/Amp would you recommend to get good 7.1 surround?

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5 hours ago, Switch said:

Out of the three you linked, I've personally heard good things about the M50's being the go to headphones 

I really like those. I guess I'm going with the M50x's and using a ModMic

This is the DAC it will be paired with if anyone else is curious

Edit: More specifically these, as the matte grey finish looks so much better than the black ones: http://a.co/dAUhPSJ

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oh boy...Headsets and dacs are much more controversial then Politics, history & religion put together(why did I check the forum...)

The reason for the controversy, is simple. What ppl like in terms of sound, where sound equals The level difference between frequencies(bass, mid range, tweeter simplified), timber, echo stereo perspective etc, is as varied as humans on earth. Some like more bass, some less, some like tweeter to be overwhelming etc.

The reason for mentioning this, is that the only opinion that should matter in the end to you, is whether you like the sound or not. Nobody else matters is this respect. Now to the recommendations.

  1. Why should I pick something something expensive. (You have a realistic budget if take your headphones and spend as much on a dac with a headphone amp on it.)
    - The first reason is sound quality, your experience of the sound. The price for Headphones exceptional sound quality with LOW distortion, starts @ 150ish USD, often at 180-200 USD minus discounts depending on brands. Microphone not included. Modmic or separate mic is needed.

    - 2nd reason is simply put distortion... Almost all music productions, games, TV show & movies, use high quality recording equipment and spend time on after effects and dampening. Which means it has low distortion, in most cases. Which in term means that you can play the f.ex game louder without damaging your hearing. A good amplifier / dac introduces as little as possible of distortion, and in the cases where the source generates distortion, is much less likely to amplify the distortion to a ear damaging level.
     
  2. What is a good headphone(s)?
    - A baseline product for closed headphones - the ageing, still better then most - Beyerdynamic DT-770 80ohm - Massive sound dampening to ambient sounds, and (for me) very tight but pungent bass that doesn't overwhelm the mid range. Only draw back is that I've heard more open headphones with equally good bass, but a way higher cost. 0 distortion detectable by my ears. If you have to option to listen to headphones in a specialist store, please do that, as there are some variation.

    - The best Open headset within reasonable price range is the Sennheiser HD 599, so consider that thé open headphones baseline. Open with good mid range, very open stereo perspective and tweeter. 0 distortion - Drawbacks are: Everyone hears what you hear, less bass then lovers of bass enjoys...
     
  3. Why spend more money on soundcard when you get a okay headphone amp on most motherboard?
    - Source to DAC to headphone AMP to headphones has a really simple equation: gold + gold + gold + gold = gold. Gold + gold + alright + Gold = Alright or Gold + gold + gold + crap = Take a wild guess... Crap. The lowest denominator in the chain is the quality you get. If we rate sound cards and dac as one with the following standard, Bad - Alright - Good - Excellent - Amazing, most onboard soundcards are alright, with a few good. They all generally have low distortion, but not at higher volumes. The headphones above are in the category Excellent.

    - Both Baseline headphones mentioned above are stereo headphones. So you need a dolby headphone capable soundcard.

    - Both headphones needs a strong headphone amp to perform close to optimal, or simply put, to be able to play loud with low distortion.
     
  4. So what is an example of a soundcard that supports all of these options?
    - Sadly there is only .. 1 that is up there in the sound category Excellent. Asus Essence STX II (ps addon card is not need for heaphones). In the sound category Excellent, this card is alone. If you go down to sound category good, you have more options. Asus have more cheaper cards with dolby headphone. Creative have Many different Soundblaster options.
     

All this being said, you get far with a 100usd gaming headphone and aon board sound card, but it won't be excellent. Same with Game headset with build in surround using USB.

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@Donut The first choice is a good option for gaming/movies and music, Audio Technica ATH-AD900X Open-Back. But the Sound BlasterX G5 (which I've tested), is Good(not excellent) for music & games, but feel far short on surround movies and music DVD's and BD's. The price point of the SBX G5 is very close to the ASUS STX II, I'd look into that some more.

You on the go choice is Quite Good, and much much better then a standard Iphone or Andriod phone outlet.

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8 hours ago, TheOnly said:

The price point of the SBX G5 is very close to the ASUS STX II, I'd look into that some more.

How would I get 7.1 from that into the headset? Is it just plug and play like the usb version or would I need special adapters from headset to sound card?

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@Donut It's a technology called Dolby Headphone. The G5 uses similar technic, but with different alogrythems and calculations.

Looking apart from head phones all together, when you listen to anything around you, you listen in stereo. Through the way the sound hit's the ear canal(angel) in one ear, combined with the slight delay and sound angel(there is much more too this but tdlr), allows you brain to calculate where the sound is coming from in a 360 degree sphere around your head.

Dolby Headphone and other similar surround emulators, take in the source 5.1 or 7.1 surround signal(an actual surround source) and then apply room, delays, etc to simulate where front left or rear right etc comes from, played back on Stereo headphone. Using this technology you get a 360 degree of a flat disk around your head. The vertical placement of sounds comes from the source it self.

Of all the different techs using this principle, dolby headphone is by far the superior choice. It reflects the source 5.1 or 7.1 signal far better, and add very little to the source sound. In Arma 3 you can place a sound heard kilometers away using a compass accurate to a degree +/- 1 degree. Same with vertical placement. What dolby headphone Does Not Do, is adding things like extra volume to thing like footsteps. It's simply plays what the source contains.

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Ever since I made the switch from Logitech/Audio Technica headphones to Sennheiser...I can't imagine going back. In my opinion, the overall build and sound quality are just unmatched for the cost, which is generally pretty competitive. I have a pair at work (HD 598C) and two pairs at home (PC360D and GSX 1200 PRO). 

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There is another factor at play here. Age... Around 14 - 18 you have certain preferences, not in type of music which is influenced by your piers, but in how a good tune sounds and How a speaker or headphone should emphasis bass mid range & tweeter. This slowly develop from age 18 to 23/24/25 into other priorities, before, provided you actively listen to music/movies, it does a final stage of refining in your mid 30's.

Before the "I'm not like that, so you're wrong"-slamming starts. These are general numbers, they, thank gXd, does Not apply to everyone.

The reason for mentioning this is, that again, it's you're perception of what good sound is, that matters. No-one else's can tell you this. Go out of your way to be able to do a trail listen to the headphones you are considering. Friends that have them, pro shops that have them on demo etc.

IF you have not listen to the Technica ATH-AD900X Open-Back, please do so. If that Technica Headphone suits your listing taste, it will fit you better than any Sennheiser ever will, because there is a distinct difference. And the vice verse might equally be true.

  • Sennheisers Have more midrange emphasis then beyerdynamics or Technica, and a very open and Crisp(too crisp for some) tweeter. It's the default "Open & Crisp without to much bass" choice.
  • Technichas tend to have slightly more bass then Sennheisers, but still way less then Beyerdynamics, it has a slightly less weighted midrange compared to Sennheisers, and then tweeter is just as open as a Sennheiser, but with less crispness. It's the "I don't like to much bass OR tweeter crispness" choice.
  • Beyerdynamics have, in most case, much more bass then Sennheisers and more bass the Technicas. This bass is still very tight and controlled, but as you might guess, it has a kick(but not overwhelming). The bass can be to much for some, so again, try your self. The midrange is tuned to match the bass, so extremely clear on voices. The tweeter is very open, but without the sennheisers crispness. This my choice, after listing to all of the above for hours on end.
  • Lastly, but just as important. There has been a explosion the last 2-3 years of new brands popping up, with really good headphones in all kinds of price ranges. I haven't found anything that made me want to replace my DT-770 pro 80ohm, but there has been several where I've said to my self, "This is really good, alot of ppl will like this, a specially at the given price point". Here again try them out, test compare etc.

My current headphones DT-770 Pro 80ohm have been in production for close to 20 years, it's was recently discontinued from production, when a double the price replacement came out. But due to popular demand, it's back in production. It's used in hundreds of sound studios around the world, thousands of small and large TV & radio stations, in addition to being a audiophile favorite for 2 decades. I've had mine for 10 years+ now, I've bought replacement parts 2 times. You can buy arms, all pads, all plastics parts that can break etc.

I'm considering buying a new headphone since mine is closing on 11 years. But during my last 12 years of listing to All headphones I can find at conventions, in demo stores and at friends, have still not found something within a reasonable price range, that sounds better to me, then the model I currently have, so I'll be buying the same model, all though from the new production line.

PS.. if this has not been made Clear Enough or TDLR..listen first, then buy. If you have buy and return within x amount of days if you don't like stores, use'm...Friends with reasonable distance that have the model you want, make to effort to visit them. Pro demo store reasonably close?

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This site, review will cover ALL the beyerdynamic models that is relevant. If you have heard one the models mentioned here, you can get a good sense of how the others will sound. Just adjust you experience + or -, to the reviewer own comparison, and you've got a reference to what he says about the other model.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Opening back up this topic as more info to digest.

Is it possible to use the onboard audio for speakers since it's decent audio and continue using the sound card for the headset? Not too sure if those would conflict or if it would be like normal where you just click the default sound source to switch over when wanted.

The reason I ask, been looking at the Logitech Z906 when not wearing the headset, and having both the headset and 5.1 audio plugged into the sound card just wouldn't work

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/speaker-system-z906

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You can do 2 things, and for both you connect the headset to the 5.1 card, and the z906 to the onboard card:

  1. Manually change in windows settings the default sound card.
  2. Install Voicemeter Banana, and choose through Voicemeter. Using Voicemeter, you can send to both sound cards(this works for stereo ingames, but can lead to breaking sounds in games when using 5.1 or 7.1)

Link to Voice meter: http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/banana.htm

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Oh nice. Yeah that's what I currently do right now is switch the default sound device in windows between speakers. I sure if the sound card would over ride the software of the on board audio and disable it permanently. 

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