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Chris Roberts talks about Lumberyard


Danakar Endeel

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Original email from Chris Roberts regarding Lumberyard on the 24th:

Spoiler

There is one other big announcement we would like to make with the release of 2.6.  We are now basing Star Citizen and our custom technology development on Amazon’s Lumberyard Engine.  Since the beginning of the project, we’ve had to make a huge number of changes to the CryENGINE code and tech to enable us to deliver Star Citizen.  While the original CryENGINE had great strengths in many areas like rendering and cinematics the needs of our game were well beyond what came ‘out of the box’.  So we have, over time, changed significant parts of the engine for our technology, such that only a baseline of the original engine truly remains. In the future we will continue to make significant changes to AI, Animation and Network code and systems.

When Amazon announced Lumberyard back in February 2016, we were immediately interested. While based on the same baseline technology as Star Citizen, Lumberyard is specifically designed for online games, utilizing the power of Amazon’s AWS Cloud Services and their Twitch streaming platform. Amazon’s focus aligns perfectly to ours as we’ve been making significant engineering investments into next generation online networking and cloud based servers.  Making the transition to Lumberyard and AWS has been very easy and has not delayed any of our work, as broadly, the technology switch was a ‘like-for-like’ change, which is now complete.

As an added benefit Amazon AWS data centers are spread around the world from North America to South America, Europe to China to Asia Pacific, which will allow us to better support the many backers across the globe as we scale up Star Citizen.

Finally, Amazon has made Lumberyard freely available for anyone building their own game. That means that technically-inclined members of the community can have a better view 'under the hood' of our game than ever before. It's also a great path for anyone interested in game development professionally; I fully anticipate that in the coming year we will be hiring programmers who have taught themselves using Amazon's Lumberyard resources!

As we move forwards, we are confident you will see great benefits from our partnership.  Amazon will bring new features to Lumberyard to assist in creating online persistent games, adding great support for their products like Twitch (which we use extensively) and of course investing heavily in engine research and development for years to come.  We could not find a more stable and reliable engine partner than Amazon, so with this partnership we are sure we have secured the future development and continuing technical innovation for Star Citizen. 

With that I would like encourage everyone to download and play Alpha 2.6. It is a lot of fun and I look forward to seeing you in the ‘verse!

Happy Holidays!

-- Chris Roberts

Follow-up post regarding Lumberyard on the RSI forums on the 25th

Spoiler

Lumberyard and StarEngine are both forks from exactly the SAME build of CryEngine.

We stopped taking new builds from Crytek towards the end of 2015. So did Amazon. Because of this the core of the engine that we use is the same one that Amazon use and the switch was painless (I think it took us a day or so of two engineers on the engine team). What runs Star Citizen and Squadron 42 is our heavily modified version of the engine which we have dubbed StarEngine, just now our foundation is Lumberyard not CryEngine. None of our work was thrown away or modified. We switched the like for like parts of the engine from CryEngine to Lumberyard. All of our bespoke work from 64 bit precision, new rendering and planet tech, Item / Entity 2.0, Local Physics Grids, Zone System, Object Containers and so on were unaffected and remain unique to Star Citizen.

Going forward we will utilize the features of Lumberyard that make sense for Star Citizen. We made this choice as Amazon's and our focus is aligned in building massively online games that utilize the power of cloud computing to deliver a richer online experience than would be possible with an old fashioned single server architecture (which is what CryNetwork is).

Looking at Crytek's roadmap and Amazon's we determined that Amazon was investing in the areas we were most interested in. They are a massive company that is making serious investments into Lumberyard and AWS to support next generation online gaming. Crytek doesn't have the resources to compete with this level of investment and have never been focused on the network or online aspects of the engine in the way we or Amazon are. Because of this combined with the fact we weren't taking new builds of CryEngine we decided that Amazon would be the best partner going forward for the future of Star Citizen.

Finally there was no ulterior motive in the timing of the announcement. The deal wasn't fully finalized until after the release of 2.5 and we agreed with Amazon to announce the switch and partnership upon the release of 2.6, which would be the first release on Lumberyard and AWS. If you have been checking out our schedule updates you would know that we originally had hoped to release 2.6 at the beginning of December, not Friday the 23rd!

I hope this clears up some of the speculation I have seen. We are very excited to be partnered with Amazon and feel this move is a big win for Star Citizen and by extension everyone that has backed the project.

p.s. I wont be replying to this as it is Christmas and I am meant to be enjoying a bit of time off with my family (and playing some games - you may see me pop into a Star Marine or AC match or two!)

p.p.s Happy Holidays All!

wPh0fAG.png

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Going forward we will utilize the features of Lumberyard that make sense for Star Citizen. We made this choice as Amazon's and our focus is aligned in building massively online games that utilize the power of cloud computing to deliver a richer online experience than would be possible with an old fashioned single server architecture (which is what CryNetwork is).

This imo is the most important part.  All this time my greatest fear for the game was servers, where they'd be established and what regions will get the most lag... and unless they used a lot of funds to establish and maintain the server(s), CIG would need to use the services of the likes of Google or Amazon (which is what they've done).  I wonder how CIGs new approach will affect their game in comparison to EVE Online's single-shard server?

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Like I expected, this can only be better for star citizen. the number of comments that i have seen on the clickbait articles on the web of people that think this will delay the game even more was so immensely stupid, clearly something went wrong at the gaming media when they were interpreting their news. Shame.

On the contrary even, I think this will benefit both the effectiveness of the engine, the optimization and possibly also the speed of development.

But clearly something is up with the people themselves too, since they read article titles and already conclude retarded things from it, before reading the rest. For alot of people, today's news media is based on confirmation bias only it seems. 

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13 minutes ago, Rellim said:

Like I expected, this can only be better for star citizen. the number of comments that i have seen on the clickbait articles on the web of people that think this will delay the game even more was so immensely stupid, clearly something went wrong at the gaming media when they were interpreting their news. Shame.

On the contrary even, I think this will benefit both the effectiveness of the engine, the optimization and possibly also the speed of development.

But clearly something is up with the people themselves too, since they read article titles and already conclude retarded things from it, before reading the rest. For alot of people, today's news media is based on confirmation bias only it seems. 

Speaking of such people, I agree with CIGs timing on announcing Lumberyard, this post explains it better than I can:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5k7wvi/can_you_imagine_if_they_told_us_about_lumberyard/

And top it all off, all those people claiming that switching to Lumberyard would slow SC development down should know that the transfer took 2 engineers two days to finish it.  But still, you'll always have your free buffet of clickbait titles and the horde of people who suddenly become industry-leading game engine experts from a 10-minute youtube video (and refuse to read what CR has to say):

 

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It's too bad you can't rehost shit video content to deny views. Either way, I'm not watching those.

As for LY, I trust the guys and gals running the show. Brian Chambers is still plugging away, and TZ seems happy doing what he's doing. Given what the team hopes to accomplish and what they've been delivering I expect this move fits their vision and therefore suits Star Citizen and its players.

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4 hours ago, Rellim said:

Like I expected, this can only be better for star citizen. the number of comments that i have seen on the clickbait articles on the web of people that think this will delay the game even more was so immensely stupid, clearly something went wrong at the gaming media when they were interpreting their news. Shame.

On the contrary even, I think this will benefit both the effectiveness of the engine, the optimization and possibly also the speed of development.

But clearly something is up with the people themselves too, since they read article titles and already conclude retarded things from it, before reading the rest. For alot of people, today's news media is based on confirmation bias only it seems. 

Games journalism requires a lot of work. You need to build a repertoire with people in the industry, learn which lines need to be read in between, educate yourself on the process, and establish yourself as a trustworthy individual who knows how to protect your sources while also verifying what they claim is true.

Sadly, such things are time consuming and expensive, so most people on who write articles for sites are "Contributing Authors/Editors". Fools sites pay peanuts to so they can write columns every so often while not technically being employees in the event someone wants them fired. These columns are rarely reviewed for content and substance before publishing, have little in the way of verified fact/source checking, and the competitiveness among authors creates a feedback loop that rewards only those who bring more clicks to a site, even if it means being a cutthroat or liar. Because nobody trusts these people, they instead source information directly from the horse's ass and put their spin on it hoping people read it.

I said it before when Squadron 42 delays were announced and I'll say it again:

If all you do is regurgitate information you are fed, you are making your job useless since people can go to the source directly to form their own opinion.

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I only really read reddit and here for Star Citizen news, and the clickbaity articles and videos on Lumberyard hadn't even reached my attention, so the community is doing a good job of not promoting the idiocy.

This came completely out of left field but it really looks like a good move. I have to think that Amazon specifically targeted Star Citizen with Lumberyard, because it just seems too perfect of a coincidence otherwise.  But this looks like one of those win-wins you hope for, and probably makes it far more likely that at some future date CIG can license out Star Engine so that our Battletech or Robotech or Star Wars games of our dreams can be made :lol:.

3.0 having great new netcode is the next big milestone for Star Citizen (obviously), and it'll validate everything they're doing.

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1 hour ago, Delota said:

Being a certified AWS architect myself, I am sooooo happy to hear they will be using AWS for their infrastructure.

This will mean good pings all around the world and gives them the ability to use auto-scaling of their infrastructure for SC.

PS. All SCB servers run on AWS!

Does this mean the Portal will be able to have direct mechanics to tie into the game? IE; The hangar, training module, rental system etc.

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Does this mean the Portal will be able to have direct mechanics to tie into the game? IE; The hangar, training module, rental system etc.


Hahaha, that'd be wonderfull!

We do have the option to be in the same datacenter as the SC servers and therefore having lower latency(
I have a question, if AWS is better to achieve good pings worldwide why am i getting pings of 154 in SM and many of the other players are getting 12? Is it my internet provider? It really makes SM tough to play or even fun as is.

AstroJak



It is the location of the server that matters.
Choosing AWS, it allows SC to setup servers in 13 different regions with the click of a button instead of having to fly out to certain locations to install new hardware.
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I believe currently there are located in some regions which by default doesn't means that they have spawned servers to other areas.  AWS or any other Cloud means that they don't have to spent millions in server and network infrastructure but offload most of it in the Cloud providers side. Still their DevOps are needed to manage this "instances".

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Eventually it will... As they are spawning instances closer and improving their network.

In my professional opinion as a Snr. Systems Engineer. It is a multifactor issue between system specs (which means the Hosts and the Virtual machines that are running on those) ,proximity, network providers and CIG's netcode itself. It all comes down in the end to the Company and the provider and the contracts they will sing their SLA and services.

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This is great news. Star Citizen is pushing the boundaries of PC gaming as can be clearly seen by just how many times they have moved their own goalposts in favour of longer development time but a much better game. It simply makes sense to me that companies like Nvidia, Intel & Amazon etc... would want to get in on this action and show how their technology can be at the forefront in their respective markets. This game should be the MMO to rule them all for some years to come and any company will do well to align themselves with it. Star Citizen using Amazon AWS is a great move. As @Tom Villder mentioned above, I also had my concerns with regards to how well the servers would handle so much info globally but I am pretty excited to think that we will be 'working with' Amazon to make this work. This decision will also be important when it comes to the level of security within the servers.

For me all these top companies can see the potential of Star Citizen and quite rightly want to push the boundaries of their own tech. It is great news for the game and us.

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49 minutes ago, AstroJak said:

I have a question, if AWS is better to achieve good pings worldwide why am i getting pings of 154 in SM and many of the other players are getting 12? Is it my internet provider? It really makes SM tough to play or even fun as is.

AstroJak
 

I think that while they found a good solution for server locations, their netcode still needs to be worked on.  I could be wrong but I think the new netcode will be fully implemented in 3.0, until then we just have to make do with what we have.  However, I have noticed that playing SM outside of peak times really helped, there was reduced lag/stuttering and my ping went down from 170 to 100-110.

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19 minutes ago, AstroJak said:

So will my ping improve? Its not like i live in Madagascar or anything!

AstroJak
 

Lets face it AJ, if it comes to it we will just rent an office above the SC servers so we get a ping of 2 :D 'We Will Not Be Beaten'

Edited by Leonn
because im stupid
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For every VM they spawn on demand the cost is increased. In instance, if they shut them down the cost decreases.



If you count in that other services for interconnected regions and automated replication there is also an increase of cost. Personally i believe that creating global server's just for the ping doesn't excuse the cost. Until thry improve the server instance to support larger player groups and NPC while they have improved their netcode to the point that based on performance ,new regions would make sense.
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10 hours ago, Tom Villder said:

But still, you'll always have your free buffet of clickbait titles and the horde of people who suddenly become industry-leading game engine experts from a 10-minute youtube video (and refuse to read what CR has to say):

 

OMG i cant take it AAAAAAAH 

OCc61DA.gif

BURN IT

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That would break one of their strongest promises and advertisement  "Not having a required subscription to play". Am a subscribe myself in my belief , the money we funnel every month surely help to alleviate some part of operation costs,  all the shows or the JPM most probably don't deplete that budget. Again that is my opinion and am not having any evidence to back it up.

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14 minutes ago, Fintz said:

That would break one of their strongest promises and advertisement  "Not having a required subscription to play". Am a subscribe myself in my belief , the money we funnel every month surely help to alleviate some part of operation costs,  all the shows or the JPM most probably don't deplete that budget. Again that is my opinion and am not having any evidence to back it up.

I agree, it would if they made the sub compulsory.  But what if they continued something like the Centurion and Imperator subs after release, but they get no advantage over non-subscribers in any way like UEC tax exemption, extra LTI etc but for instance, they get access to a less luxurious version of the million mile club (or a sub-exclusive club) in addition to out-of-game perks like access to PTU builds, reduced merchandise price, ability to ask questions in 10FTC (if its continued post release).

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