Capital Ship Problem

[Vaderhexagon]

Recently, I viewed the video below discussing Capital Ship cost structures. After viewing it.. I had several take aways.

The main feeling I had is that with the size and resources required to run Capital Ships it makes sense to me that everyone on board and the vertically integrated resource channels should be militarized primarily to save cost. 

In real life this is no more evident than PMC vs Traditional Army.

Here is a article to illustrate the point: http://work.chron.com/private-military-company-pay-vs-army-pay-24574.html

 

These are just my thoughts. Let me know what you think.

 

[Switch]

55 minutes ago, Vaderhexagon said:

The main feeling I had is that with the size and resources required to run Capital Ships it makes sense to me that everyone on board and the vertically integrated resource channels should be militarized primarily to save cost. 

I might be misunderstanding but if you mean every person that boards a capital ship should have military training for less chance of dieing, most people that crew a Capital ship, depending its use, would be Military with training I'd assume as you can specify it on the Mission System. Most will probably be NPC's but you can fill your ship with what you want, if it's a Imperium Sanctioned mission then they'll choose for example. 

 

For the video,

Remember our Missions System and 5:04 except not just slightly we will be perfectly fine, there is no worry. Capital ships are not the best "money makers" as I see them, so a video specifically on capital ships being a sinkhole can get confusing. You could be taking out T&I ships, protecting T&I ships or finding resources for T&I to gather but that's 1 in a million ways to make money in SC. Imperium has ALL the ships you need, make a mission and request it if you need money. Owning a capital ship for your personal time though will be a fun and hopefully beneficial experience, as well add to Imperiums fleet and CIG's wallet with the thought of this video showing Chris comparing prices of ships to actual carriers being millions of dollars and bengals being billions, etc.

Thankfully even if you buy a javelin we will still have ships in game that trumps that, meaning we still have something to work towards as an org, no matter how much we spend we're just adding to, again, Imperiums fleet and CIG's wallet. 

[CyberianK]

I usually like STLYoungbloods videos but every single point he makes here is just theorycrafting and could easily be the total opposite of what he claims.

 

The fact is we have no real numbers on what the economy will be and especially topics like maintenance and repairs. You often have Backers who make claims of how expensive it will be to maintain, repair or rearm a specific larger ship. I am making the same baseless claim that this won't be the case and all of that while more expensive than smaller ships won't be a big deal a few weeks after launch.

Now I don't know more than those people so I am going purely with my instincts, experience in MMO gaming and my impression of Star Citizen not being a super hardcore game and that CIG will want to make their content accessible therefore you won't be forced to let you bigger ships rot in hangar because you can never afford to fly them.

 

We will see who will be right in the end both is realistically possible or some middle ground.

[Amy Babe]

I have not heard or read about it but to me it is pretty obvious that "using the big boy" will be costly (economicalwise), but the rewards will be elsewhere (it could just be having an epic evening), and I expect Imperium to share the operating costs of all of our capital ships, could they be mine or those belonging to anybody.

 

We have to think as a whole, not as individuals. Taken this way, the cost will not be that high...

Of course for anybody willing to play solo the situation is different, but I don't believe Imperium is for solo players.

 

best regards.

[Revinix]

I agree with CyberianK, I think that CIG will keep the cost of owning larger ship within a reasonable threshold. And if thing get too expensive I believe that the Imperium's member would be willing to help offset the cost to help keep the ship in service.

If there was a Javelin that was heavily damaged I would be willing to donate some credits to help with the repair cost, because I might need it's help at some point and would like to know it's operational and ready for action.

That's just my theory, and I hope other agree too.

[Amy Babe]

Quote

If there was a Javelin that was heavily damaged I would be willing to donate some credits to help with the repair cost, because I might need it's help at some point and would like to know it's operational and ready for action.

That's just my theory, and I hope other agree too.

I can't wait to see a flow chart on how Imperium will really work in the end, and how the divisions are going to work together.

I mean VoA has written a very nice seri of thread (multisquadron tactics, profits, ...) but i am quite sure that in the end it will work more or less like what you expect, even if it is just one of the aspects of the big picture.

Military people will protect other people and imperium assets.

We will use ammos, missiles.. those being manufactured by trade and industry division; I don't expect to pay for my missiles when involved an imperium mission

we will take blows, and as well, i expect my ships to be repaired by imperium.

When Imperium fleet travels, we will rely on data gathered by the exploration division, being fueled by the trade and industry division, protected bythe military ...

the trade and industry division will use the data from exploration division to find ships to salvage, ore to mine, and will be protected by military ...

 

 

Really young recruit revinix, You'll be amazed on how this organization works:)

it's well organized, and promises are great.

 

 

[Karmaslap]

1 hour ago, Revinix said:

If there was a Javelin that was heavily damaged I would be willing to donate some credits to help with the repair cost, because I might need it's help at some point and would like to know it's operational and ready for action.

That's just my theory, and I hope other agree too.

I also think that capital ship operation will be relatively cheap. Fuel and basic NPCs shouldn't break the bank, but repairs and replacing or upgrading equipment is probably going to be expensive.

 

If someone's javelin is heavily damaged, I'd be against individuals chipping in private funds to replace it. Imperium has plans in place to arm/repair capital craft, and I think it is best to document damages, costs, and labor hours required to fix the craft and pull funds from Imperium coffers to pay for replacement. I dunno if it seems ridiculous to people, but it is very, very important to document capital ship repairs especially early on in the game for several reasons. It's still going to be a lot of labor, but I can see plenty of people volunteering to help out. Ideally, I'd like Imperium to record estimates of volunteer hours for things such as repair work, training, organizational work, and other such activities so that people can be commended and so that the leadership can get a feel for which players ought to be promoted, but that's kind of excessive in practice.

@Amy Babe I'd love to see the economics of that. If an explorer finds an ore-rich area of a belt, then what share of the profits is fair for him to get? I'm curious on whether the mission system will have outlined "standards" for people to go off of. 

 

As to the original video: I think that the number one msot difficult part of capital ship operation will be logistics for player personnel. It's hard organizing a lot of people, training them, making sure they know what they're doing, and then spending time traveling to the location and carrying out the mission. I'm sure it would be more efficient to bring a corvette with support craft compared to an Idris. If someone can afford to buy a capital ship, I'm sure they can fund it.

[Revinix]

Really young recruit revinix, You'll be amazed on how this organization works:)

it's well organized, and promises are great.

 

 

I believe you, this organization has been well thought out and thoroughly planned. I can't wait to see everyone working together and proving that this one of the best organizations to be a part of

[Vaderhexagon]

I was referring to mostly to cost structures. Thanks guys for your feedback.

[Boildown]

Somewhere there's a big post from someone in Imperium with the credentials to know, all about how they plan (or since things change, how they planned at the time) to run the big ships their members have.  Seemed pretty well thought out.  Hopefully someone can find the link to it.

[Trophias]

If it's within the Imperium forums, we won't be able to link it in the open.

[Amy Babe]

4 hours ago, Karmaslap said:

@Amy Babe I'd love to see the economics of that. If an explorer finds an ore-rich area of a belt, then what share of the profits is fair for him to get? I'm curious on whether the mission system will have outlined "standards" for people to go off of.

You will find parts of your answer here:

this forum is really full of ideas and concepts, it takes hours to dig into it, and days to consilidate the stuff, don't be afraid to read even "old" material. it will help you build the imperium big picture.

[Karmaslap]

5 minutes ago, Amy Babe said:

You will find parts of your answer here:

this forum is really full of ideas and concepts, it takes hours to dig into it, and days to consilidate the stuff, don't be afraid to read even "old" material. it will help you build the imperium big picture.

I've read it, but my post above referred to the newer mission system where players or officers can create missions for other members. I do not believe that any standards for % profit margins have been outlined or brainstormed much, and can't really until professions are added and pay is balanced. 

Then the T&I guys will have to monitor pay rates for each profession to assure mutual profit. 

[Trophias]

The Mission System has not been created and put onto the portal and we still do not know anything about those parts of the game. If it relates to Imperium, please create a new post within the Imperium section and discuss there. This is open to the public and not everyone can see the topics you have linked. @Amy Babe & @Karmaslap

[Vaderhexagon]

Thanks, again guys for all the feedback. This topic isn't Imperium specific. I think that the recent interview with Chris sited in the below video gives us a strong indication of cost structures throughout the game. Ultimately, if this prediction and his comments turn out to be true.. I see it as validation for those who have put in the currency to pre-purchase ships before the games final release, but it also means that the resources required to operate said ships will be congruent. 

 

 

[Donut]

This will be the money maker for a lot of us. My specialty will be alien arms and armor, set up a shop in the Goss system

Quote

You will be able to own and operate a business. It will focus primarily on items. For hiring services, we'll probably have a board of some sort for players to offer their services...more details on that to come in the future.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/862826/#Comment_862826

Tools Asks: How do you envision player to player sales in the PU? Will other players simply browse my goods through their MobiGlas, or will there be an opportunity for a storefront?
That aspect of how players trade is something we’ve been discussing. Longer term the goal would be to allow players to start or to buy their own store-front, so there might be “Chris’ Store of Curiosities” where other players can come to buy stuff. So we definitely want to include that sort of stuff in-game, it’s also one of the biggest ideas for the Banu MM, so you could fly around buying and collecting things, then sell them in your greeting/trading room on-ship. There will probably be some version of a local-system based version of Craig’s list, where you post things for sale, then people can browse them then contact you, before arranging a meeting place, then while you’re both there you’d transfer the goods. Typically, depending on what you’re selling, things might need to be regulated just like things in the real world, say, ship sales and the like. This is one of the things we’re trying to go for realism with in the PU.