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Aegis Vanguard - Hoplite Variant

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Don't forget, Aegis is tomorrow if all goes as planned.... speaking of which, don't any of you find it the least bit ODD that Aegis is going AFTER 'Exotic Manufacturers', on Black Friday, and right at the end of the sale? 

Also, CIG made mention of the Hoplite in the Prowler Q/A... something they very rarely do unless that something is relatively immediate.

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Hey I was just wondering:

A lot of people in this post seem disappointed in the Vanguard design in general and are pessimistic about the ship not gong to be changed much before the games release.

Can I get some details behind why a lot of you are dismissive about the ship? Or give me a link where this was discussed in length?

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Hey Magus..... I'd hate to dump my dislike for the Vanguard on you prior to it's expected balance passes, but a lot of anger doesn't just focus on current capabilities, but the departure of the concept. Plenty of threads for you to read. I am sure it will be balanced for its intended purpose, but it'll never look like it's concept so I melted mine. 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/vanguard-series-discussion-group

Hope it helps, good or bad.  You'll have to judge yourself of course. Good luck

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Hey, I like the ship. But then I'm weird. I think it will come down to range and the double shields.

If you can take a route with longer legs that allows you to avoid problematic areas entirely, that pays dividends over having to be ready for a dogfight at every jump.

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@Nova-Prime & GeraldEvans:

Thank you two for the rapid response.

@Nova-Prime:

It has been a while since the Vanguard first came out and I am a little murky on the initial concept of the ship. From what I recall the Warden is suppose to be long range fighter if I am not mistaken. In your view, how has it departed from this role? I will be reading the threads at the link you posted, but I would also like to have your point of view to digest as well.

@GeraldEvans:

I agree with you 100% on that point. But that is situational. It seems very useful for specific missions in mind (for example the harbinger doing a sneak attack bombing run). But a Warden being a long range fighter, the "fighter" implies it should be capable of well... fighting. :D Long range fighters (in my view) should be particularly useful as escorts. Able to travel long distances with their protect-ees, but also able to fight off attackers.

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Yes, they should be able to fight off attackers, but that doesn't mean they should be able to easily dispatch more nimble fighters. A bunch of Auroras or a Cutlass, sure but it's not right to expect them to come out on top against a Super Hornet.

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Magus What GeraldEvans said IS ... or SHOULD be correct. My personal issue with the VG is:

1.the boxy redesign of the hour glass figure nacelles from concept art. As I understand it, it was to reduce poly count. 

2.the interior is NOTHING like concept because for simplicity they just copied pieces from the Tali and Saber. 

3.use of interior space. The ship is as big as a freelancer yet areas like the ramp is volumes of potential. The area walking up to the cockpit is again, to me, wasted space. 

4.concept for hard points underneath the nacelles, and missiles in shoulders were just completely passed over.... NOPE..... Not the concept at all

Look,  I'll stop.  Again, not what I paid as a concept so I went BMM. Will the VG fill its role as long range fighter. ABSOLUTELY. MY issue is cosmetic and missing original ideas. Lovely thing about this game is the variety of ships, careers, etc...  So please.....  GET THE SHIP because it fills a mission/career/game play you wish to pursue or get it for looks. But if either of those come to question, make a decision you can sleep with. 😊  Good luck bro

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4 hours ago, Danakar Endeel said:

Vanguard Hoplite on sale now for $225

 

Aegis_Vanguard_Hoplite_01.jpg

 

Didn't expect it to cost $25 less than the Warden base model to be honest. ;)

It's a welcome surprise that the Hoplite costs less than the Warden base model. There were a lot of rumours it would cost the same as a Harbinger, or even more, which would've been outrageous. But after the Prowler Concept Sale, I think everyone assumed the worst that CIG was going to gouge us for as much money as possible. It's a relief they gave us a break this time. (Although it reinforces the criticism that the Prowler is so over-priced because of the Alien Mark-up.)

I think I might buy a Hoplite with store credit since there's no "Warbond" cash discount. Owning a Hoplite means that I'll have the option of melting my over-priced Prowler and still have a dedicated dropship and boarding craft with LTI. Also, the Hoplite is a long-range troop transport, whereas the Prowler is short-range. A lot to think about.

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32 minutes ago, Nova-Prime said:

You go from S3 missiles to S2 and you loose the escape coffin..... correct???  Wonder if the Redeemer will compete or be the "next tier up" to the Hoplite?

You may also lose the shield and energy system (command and control) position as well, to make room for the troops.  The redeemer is a step up, and can carry a apc  (it apears)...but may be less fun to fly to your destination. In my perspective....I feel that players you have fun with will always be the limiting factor. Since the hoplite requires only one crew, and can carry a group of soldiers, and is likely faster and more nimble, it seems very appealing to me.

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9 minutes ago, Nova-Prime said:

What's the loss here from Warden to Hoplite??  So for $25 less, You go from S3 missiles to S2 and you loose the escape coffin..... correct???  Wonder if the Redeemer will compete or be the "next tier up" to the Hoplite?

I think CIG wants us to think that the "escape coffin" was the reason the Vanguard was overpriced. ;)

It's my understanding that the Redeemer is a gunship first, dropship second. The Redeemer is already more expensive than the Hoplite, carries the same number of marines: 6, and has more guns. So yes, it could be considered the next tier up from a Hoplite in terms of troop transport.

However, the Redeemer is currently undergoing a redesign and we don't know what direction it's going to take. When it was originally designed, Star Citizen didn't have a gunship or a dropship. Now SC has several dropships, and only one gunship. It's possible that CIG could redesign it to enhance its gunship aspects and drop its troop transport capabilities.

I think the Hoplite is simply CIG's pragmatic solution to the problem of needing a dropship for Squadron 42 after they realized the Redeemer wasn't suitable. I imagine it was relatively easy for CIG to design a new troop transport module for the Vanguard, since it was designed to be modular. Supposedly CIG also widened the aft ramp door so it could deploy marines faster. It's understandable that CIG has made the Hoplite available to purchase, but it doesn't interest me personally. I think the redesigned Cutlass will do the same job just as well for half the price.

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4 hours ago, Nova-Prime said:

What's the loss here from Warden to Hoplite??  So for $25 less, You go from S3 missiles to S2 and you loose the escape coffin..... correct???  Wonder if the Redeemer will compete or be the "next tier up" to the Hoplite?

I don't recall the Warden having S3 missiles. As far as I know it just had 2x4 S2 missiles. Comparing the two on the stats page (for what it's worth LOL) also shows them to have identical components and weapons.

So effectively it seems you merely lose the modular aspect of the Vanguard in favour of a non-modular dropship with a wider ramp for $25 less than the 'base model'. Guess CIG either thought that the winnebago module was worth $25 (LOL), the ability to install modules/BUKs in general was worth $25 or they realized that the Vanguard series was overpriced from the start and tried to make up for it by making the Hoplite slightly cheaper. :P

Personally I am still going to keep my Redeemer as it seems to be the better option, but I did get a $0 Andromeda-to-Hoplite just because I could. ;)

And as Reavern said, the redesigned Cutlass also looks like it can be a pretty effective dropship at only a fraction of the price; especially with those extra side doors for quick deployment of troops. :)

Still, it's a nice surprise to see the Hoplite at $225 as I was expecting CIG to charge a lot more as 'pay more for less' seemed to be their current mantra.

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6 hours ago, Reavern said:

I think the redesigned Cutlass will do the same job just as well for half the price.

And...that I think is a much more interesting comparison.  Cutlass vs Hoplite. The redeemer has yet to be implemented, we dont know how it handles...or even what it has on it.   But the Cutlass...and the Hoplite. That is interesting. They are so similar, nice point @Reavern

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4 hours ago, Scotterius said:

And...that I think is a much more interesting comparison.  Cutlass vs Hoplite. The redeemer has yet to be implemented, we dont know how it handles...or even what it has on it.   But the Cutlass...and the Hoplite. That is interesting. They are so similar, nice point @Reavern

Yeah, I'm also leaning heavily towards getting a Cutlass just because it has those awesome side doors for quick troop deployment. And it kinda gives me a Batman type of feel (which is the main reason I want one) :P

 

As I recall the old Cutlass model had a number of dropseats inside. Not sure if there were 4 or 6 though and we'll have to wait and see if the new model will have any. But if it retains those dropseats from the original model, you should be able to use the Cutlass as a pretty cost-effective dropship. And it also has a pretty decent number of forward facing weapons compared to the Hoplite (4xS3 vs 4xS2+1xS5) :)

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If you like the Vanguards as they are, rather than what they were sold as, I can't see the Hoplite being a better purchase than the Warden. At least with the warden for a few bucks extra you get essentially 2 extra variants due to the BUKs. 

Still.. they really aren't what they were concepted as, and they have way less punch than we all thought. Hopefully the balance does something amazing. I'm holding off melting until I see what CIG do to these beasts to make them worth $225+.

It's weird, when I planned my fleet a year or more ago, it included the Vanguard and the Khartu-al as two of my main ships. I reckon now that they're both left out before we launch. I hold only the vaguest of hopes that we'll see these ships return to even close to what we were sold.

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1 hour ago, NewzyOne said:

If you like the Vanguards as they are, rather than what they were sold as, I can't see the Hoplite being a better purchase than the Warden. At least with the warden for a few bucks extra you get essentially 2 extra variants due to the BUKs. 

Still.. they really aren't what they were concepted as, and they have way less punch than we all thought. Hopefully the balance does something amazing. I'm holding off melting until I see what CIG do to these beasts to make them worth $225+.

It's weird, when I planned my fleet a year or more ago, it included the Vanguard and the Khartu-al as two of my main ships. I reckon now that they're both left out before we launch. I hold only the vaguest of hopes that we'll see these ships return to even close to what we were sold.

I don't believe the Vanguard's current depiction in AC is an accurate representation of what it will be in finished game. Its guns are too weak and it isn't nearly as tough as advertised. When it was first flyable, the Warden's shields weren't working correctly and were much weaker than they were supposed to be. Even now, I don't think the Warden's two shield gens work as intended, which was a dual layer redundant shields; if the primary shield is worn down to 0%, the secondary shield would be at full strength and would absorb damage while the primary recharges to full strength. But the Warden doesn't have a secondary shield in AC. Also, the Warden's hull isn't as durable as advertised either, because in the description it claims that Vanguards can make it back to base with one engine and half their hulls exposed to space. The current Warden doesn't seem much tougher than a Super Hornet, which is wrong.

I'm fairly certain that CIG will change the characteristics of the Vanguard later -- probably when Squadron 42 is released.

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