RSI - Polaris - Corvette

[Boildown]

I'm not touching that thread.  Way too many people typing words in ALL CAPS, because that makes their point more important than everyone else's, I guess.

[Karmaslap]

I don't touch RSI threads unless they have less than 10 responses. Otherwise you get lost in the noise.

[VoA]

Update on new Concept Ships from RTV today - Ben just mentioned.... (INN notes)...

11:18

- Polaris and Dragonfly and small mining ship are new, Prowler hasn't been stopped though. It's 'blocked' right now cuase they're still working on the Tevarin race.

11:17

- They want to get Ryan Church for the Polaris, but it's not a promise. 

11:17

- Polaris - with design in LA, then it'll go to concept.

 

[VoA]

Posted an interesting question on an option for a Polaris-P vs Polaris-M = please post what you think of the idea on the RSI Forum thread - thanks   ---->>> Link to thread

[Riley Egret]

On 03 marzo 2016 at 7:40 AM, Boildown said:

Otherwise, as to the discussion, I think there's a risk that the Polaris might overtake both the Retaliator's and the Redeemer's roles.  If the Polaris gets anti-ship torpedoes, then its instantly a better bomber than the Retaliator.  It seems it will definitely get a lot of turrets, which means its a better gunship than the Redeemer.  This seems pretty OP to me.  What's its weakness?  The one thing that might make sense here is that its made by RSI... RSI might just come up with a ship designed to upstage its Aegis competitor's Redeemer and Retaliator, at a higher price.  But this does add a very real pay to win factor, if it turns out this way.

It's a conundrum: it has to have at least some STS ship wespons to justify its presence in a naval engagement but without surclassing  the Tali, which is nearly impossible if the ship is 100m long.

If instead it's 150ish meters long like it was reported, more like a carrak, it could well have a decent STS weaponry but be a target for that kind of weapons as well, balancing it a bit.

[faquarl25]

This is off topic but these forums are so civilized compared to RSI.

[Booster Terrik]

On ‎6‎-‎3‎-‎2016 at 4:44 PM, Riley Egret said:

It's a conundrum: it has to have at least some STS ship wespons to justify its presence in a naval engagement but without surclassing  the Tali, which is nearly impossible if the ship is 100m long.

unless of course they finally design a ship that is wider than what we have seen up until now, you could fit a lot more stuff in a ship that has liveable space of say 80m x 40m than all those narrow ships we have up until now (imagine a ship slightly bigger than  the starfarer in size but less high and then purpose built for warfare).  If you go wide you have much more room for docking collars, turrets and much more internal space for extra missiles and special stations for medical/C&C/E-War/Marines, etc.

[Riley Egret]

41 minutes ago, Booster Terrik said:

unless of course they finally design a ship that is wider than what we have seen up until now, you could fit a lot more stuff in a ship that has liveable space of say 80m x 40m than all those narrow ships we have up until now (imagine a ship slightly bigger than  the starfarer in size but less high and then purpose built for warfare).  If you go wide you have much more room for docking collars, turrets and much more internal space for extra missiles and special stations for medical/C&C/E-War/Marines, etc.

Well, yeah, long or wide, the idea it needs more space.

I kinda doubt it's going for the wide factor though, since humans seems tied to the good 'ol naval ship shape still.

[Minted]

Looking forward to seeing this ship. I hope it isn't an anti-fighter ship though. There isn't much use for anti-fighter unless protecting a civilian ship but then it would need protection itself from larger ships. Vulnerable and probably not worth the hassle in the end.

Idris doesn't need anti fighter support and it has turrets, on-board fighter craft and is generally likely to be very tough. Same with the Javelin and ofcoarse the carriers come with their own fighter screens so not needed there either.

I'm hoping for a mini Idris.  Something along the lines of...

1x STS Turret

2x Anti-fighter turrets

2x rocket turrets

1-2x point defence systems

You could also give it a Hangar space for 1x Gladiator/Gladius or perhaps giving the option to swap the Hangar out for a large cargo hold or a torpedo bay.

Basically an all round ship. Bear in mind that this is unlikely to be the only Corvette released (eventually), so other Corvettes could have more specialisation. Pirate Corvette anyone? It makes sense for the first one to be a run of the mill, jack of all trades but master of none.

 

Current Naval thinking is versatility. Modern Corvettes have anti-air, STS, anti-submarine and hangar capabilities albeit limited. Its basically a small and cheaper Frigate.

It is likely that the UEE would need a cheaper military ship to patrol low risk borders, trade lanes and for anti pirate activities. Areas where an Idris would be overkill.

 

RSI is a versatile manufacturer too. The Aurora is a rugged explorer/trader/combat vessel, same with the connie. It would make sense for them to do the same with the Polaris.

 

That's my thinking anyway. 

[VoA]

1 hour ago, Minted said:

I hope it isn't an anti-fighter ship though.

That is like saying you hope it isn't a Corvette = that is the primary role for a Corvette

1 hour ago, Minted said:

There isn't much use for anti-fighter unless protecting a civilian ship but then it would need protection itself from larger ships. Vulnerable and probably not worth the hassle in the end.

You don't think protecting other capital ships vs fighters and bombers is a good role to have?   Bombers especially can sit outside the range of the Capital Ship ASA turrets - so you have to go flush them out with the Corvette.   I see the Corvette being vulnerable vs larger capital ships but it will be faster and can determine the engagement.  The Anti-Fighter / Bomber aspects of the the Corvette with ASA turrets, missiles, PDS, Snub Fighters, etc.... will allow for a robust active defense vs smaller ships.

1 hour ago, Minted said:

Idris doesn't need anti fighter support and it has turrets, on-board fighter craft and is generally likely to be very tough. Same with the Javelin and ofcoarse the carriers come with their own fighter screens so not needed there either.

Idris will have its other fighters for defense but generally ASA turrets on Capitial Ships are very effective vs long range bombers.... if fighters are smart they'll focus on a turret first then focus on that section of the ship to do damage.   The Javelin will actually be more vulnerable especially with no turret coverage from the rear and will likely have to "tank" an attack.

1 hour ago, Minted said:

I'm hoping for a mini Idris.  Something along the lines of...

1x STS Turret

2x Anti-fighter turrets

2x rocket turrets

1-2x point defence systems

It definitely won't be a mini Idris and won't have an STS (there is no need for one since Corvettes are not suppose to engage larger Capital ships in a slug-fest fight).  It could have torpedoes though since there is historical precedence for them (larger missiles).

1 hour ago, Minted said:

You could also give it a Hangar space for 1x Gladiator/Gladius or perhaps giving the option to swap the Hangar out for a large cargo hold or a torpedo bay.

There won't be enough room for standard fighters at 100-110m  (and it will only likely be a snub-docking ship like the Connie).... so there will be no Hangar..... or large cargo hold option.... but likely a torpedo bay.

1 hour ago, Minted said:

Basically an all round ship. Bear in mind that this is unlikely to be the only Corvette released (eventually), so other Corvettes could have more specialisation. Pirate Corvette anyone? It makes sense for the first one to be a run of the mill, jack of all trades but master of none.

Corvettes are not suppose to be "all around ships" or Jack of All Trade ships..... but Frigates often are (thus CR mentioning the Versatility of an Idris - since it is also designed to attack other Capital ships and Corvettes are not - thus CR mentioning it is More Economical).  Corvettes are specifically designed for Fast / Agile / Recon / Escort / Patrol / AA....

You keep mentioning that a Corvette is "versatile" - did you see 10FTC ep #77... CR explains that the Polaris is an Economical Corvette (small and light - per Ben as well)

[Gremlich]

On 2/21/2016 at 9:43 AM, VoA said:

You don't think a Helicopter is like a Snub Fighter in Star Citizen???? ..... I see them functioning the same way... with both being vulnerable, short range, etc....

helicopters on modern day corvettes and even destroyers are intended support - sea rescue, anti-sub patrol (not destruction, the ships have anti-sub weaponry most times). personnel transfer to/from shore where there are no port facilities, etc..

as far as weapons points: minimum of four turrets (Carrack has four: 2 manned, 2 remote), anti-ship missiles, flare/chaff, forward mounted weapons, maybe torpedos.

[VoA]

3 hours ago, Gremlich said:

helicopters on modern day corvettes and even destroyers are intended support - sea rescue, anti-sub patrol (not destruction, the ships have anti-sub weaponry most times). personnel transfer to/from shore where there are no port facilities, etc...

There are many types of Snubs in SC including the Argo that can serve a support role.  How the Snubs can affect the Polaris --- see --->> RSI - Polaris - Corvette - with P52, P72 and new P62 ? [POLL] [306+ VOTES]

[Minted]

11 hours ago, VoA said:

That is like saying you hope it isn't a Corvette = that is the primary role for a Corvette

You don't think protecting other capital ships vs fighters and bombers is a good role to have?   Bombers especially can sit outside the range of the Capital Ship ASA turrets - so you have to go flush them out with the Corvette.   I see the Corvette being vulnerable vs larger capital ships but it will be faster and can determine the engagement.  The Anti-Fighter / Bomber aspects of the the Corvette with ASA turrets, missiles, PDS, Snub Fighters, etc.... will allow for a robust active defense vs smaller ships.

Idris will have its other fighters for defense but generally ASA turrets on Capitial Ships are very effective vs long range bombers.... if fighters are smart they'll focus on a turret first then focus on that section of the ship to do damage.   The Javelin will actually be more vulnerable especially with no turret coverage from the rear and will likely have to "tank" an attack.

It definitely won't be a mini Idris and won't have an STS (there is no need for one since Corvettes are not suppose to engage larger Capital ships in a slug-fest fight).  It could have torpedoes though since there is historical precedence for them (larger missiles).

There won't be enough room for standard fighters at 100-110m  (and it will only likely be a snub-docking ship like the Connie).... so there will be no Hangar..... or large cargo hold option.... but likely a torpedo bay.

Corvettes are not suppose to be "all around ships" or Jack of All Trade ships..... but Frigates often are (thus CR mentioning the Versatility of an Idris - since it is also designed to attack other Capital ships and Corvettes are not - thus CR mentioning it is More Economical).  Corvettes are specifically designed for Fast / Agile / Recon / Escort / Patrol / AA....

You keep mentioning that a Corvette is "versatile" - did you see 10FTC ep #77... CR explains that the Polaris is an Economical Corvette (small and light - per Ben as well)

In your mind being an anti-fighter ship is its role but in reality we don't know yet and I don't think CIG will know fully yet.

Again you don't know the range and effectiveness of bombers and attacking from afar. You're making a judgement and expecting everyone to accept it as fact. Idris has fighters, these are meant to defend the Idris, not a large Corvette which you're again assuming will have greater range and ability to hunt down smaller vessels.

STS turrets doesn't stand for "Anti Capital ship". It just means it has the capability to take on larger ships i.e trade ships or other corvettes. I don't expect a Corvette with a small STS to ever go against an Idris unless part of a fleet.

110m ship in length(possibly). That is plenty long enough to house a small fighter if cargo space is limited. Almost all large ships just now have large cargo spaces. Remove this and you have room for larger hangars.

How do you know Corvettes aren't meant to be "all round ships"? You don't, again you are determining it in your own mind and then regarding it as fact.

Economical, small and light don't suggest anything about its role. Are you saying a Connie isn't versatile? It is going to be both smaller and lighter than the Corvette.

All of what I wrote above are my desires for the Corvette, nothing more. They are taken from what I believe the UEE would request from a manufacturer and what current modern day Navies desire.  i.e personal opinion and theory crafting.

This ship is being discussed and concepted, there is no fixed information for the Corvette yet and that's something you need to accept. You really need to separate your own imagination from fact and stop forcing it on people.

[VoA]

2 hours ago, Minted said:

STS turrets doesn't stand for "Anti Capital ship". It just means it has the capability to take on larger ships i.e trade ships or other corvettes. I don't expect a Corvette with a small STS to ever go against an Idris unless part of a fleet.

In Star Citizen we have seen:

STS Turrets = Larger / Slower Moving / requiring more power and CPU through bigger piping / etc... designed to kill larger capital ships.  These will only exist on the Idris or larger Capital ships since Corvette is not designed to engage larger capital ships in a slugfest.

ASA Turret  (Anti Spacecraft Artillery = not just AA) = These will be the Turrets seen on any ship smaller than the Idris including the Corvette  (but Larger Capital ships will have these as well)

PDS Turret  (Point Defense System) = These are SC version of an AA turret but they are designed to shoot down missles, torpedoes and fighters.

------------

The debate actually concluded on the RSI Forum with Ben in the video below. ....

AVoA

 

Options

 

Posted: 5:56AM
Edited: 5:59AM

Peter | PeterPiper said:

[source]

Starting at 8:52 , more on the corvette. "Cool gun coverage!"
More at 22:26 "Disposable capital ship", versatility pretty much confirmed: HQ, escort, space patrol.

@Peter this pretty much concludes the arguments in favor Corvette being a small (100m -110m) / fast / agile / patrol / recon / anti-fighter - anti-bomber (with a lot of ASA "turret coverage" / "disposable" / "like a PT Boat" / "like more historical examples of actual Corvette" = per Ben in this interview and others along with 10FTC #77........ vs what some people have been lobbying for like STS Turrets (large Rail guns - fortunately most realized that they would be too much)....etc... in essence trying to lobby for an unrealistic / un-balanced ship = that "could be " designed to engage larger capital ships (this side of the argument is now dead in the water). The debate is over Right? 

It was also awesome that Ben mentioned he had seen the thread (so he knows both sides of the debate) ..... Thanks for clearing this up Ben

[Booster Terrik]

It looks like the corvette will become what the Connie should have been ........ Looks like I might have to upgrade to a corvette from my Phoenix if they don't give the Connie more speed and power.

[Gremlich]

17 hours ago, VoA said:

There are many types of Snubs in SC including the Argo that can serve a support role.  How the Snubs can affect the Polaris --- see --->> RSI - Polaris - Corvette - with P52, P72 and new P62 ? [POLL] [306+ VOTES]

The Argo is NOT a snub fighter or parasite craft in the traditional sense nor should it be considered one - the same argument for not using the term "pocket carrier" - it does not apply. A launch on a destroyer is still a launch, same with a helo - just a helo.

 

definition:

Snubfighter: Slang nickname generally applied to all science fiction starfighters, especially those similar to the design of X-wings or TIE fighters. They usually have one to two crew members, travel in squadrons, and are considered expendable.

the argo is not a fighter, snub or otherwise in even the loosest sense.

 

[VoA]

39 minutes ago, Gremlich said:

The Argo is NOT a snub fighter or parasite craft in the traditional sense nor should it be considered one 

CIG refers to the Argo as a Snub - so that's all that really matters right?

39 minutes ago, Gremlich said:

- the same argument for not using the term "pocket carrier" - it does not apply.

11:23 - Carriers

+++++++++ 

Not related - but it appears some on the RSI are still trying to create their own definition of a Corvette - lol 

VoAVoA

 Posted: 1:52PM

Edited: 2:04PM by VoA

OptiWalltar | walltar said:

[source]

 

You know that it is not possible to define the Size of the Weapons on the Turrets since it is a balance issue and is still a WIP. As you know the Connie started with large turrets..... with the Tali having pea shooters...... and now that has reversed with the Connie having the pea shooters (patch 2.2 re-defined the Connie turrets - I think mistakenly). Hopefully CIG will go back to the larger Connie turrets (per the pre 2.2 connies) and then the Corvette can have one size larger than this for its turrets = but it doesn't need just one. The Phoenix has 2 of the larger turrets and one PDS...... no reason why the Corvette shouldn't have 4 of the larger turrets (one size larger than Connie Turrets - but not meant to mount weapons that are designed to kill capital ships) like @Shockblast suggested. The "smaller turrets" would be the PDS turrets and there could even be 3 of them - since it serves its primary role for the Corvette.

Of course it is possible to define size of weapons... we know what weapons currently are or are intended to be on ships and based on that we can determine what would work now. 

One Size larger turrets are those 4x dual S4 turrets.... those are equivalent of firepower you got on Constellation (4x dual S4 ~ 2x dual S3 + 4x S5). You need little more than that. I would rather be for S3 ones, but as Peter pointed out, those would increase crew count a lot. Nice anti fighter weaponry, but S4 is not going to do much against anything bigger. Those are the weapons that will start to be ineffective around caterpillar sized ships. 

PDS are S1 weapons and they would not do much against fighters, except for smallest ones. I do not think that there should be many of them, they are mainly for missiles and you do not want to be too strong against missiles. PDS will be half DPS than what one constellation's turret got in 2.2... No fighter is going to fear that. 

Dual S6 would then work against wider range of targets from Caterpillar sized up to Corvette sized ones. It would start losing effectiveness around the Idris sized ships, so even if you still can damage it with it, you would need to target specific areas to really do something. It is not a gun designed to take on Big capitals, but with right armour piercing ammo it can do some damage.

Excuse me but have you tried mounting a weapon on a Connie Turret in 2.2? It looks like you can only mount a size 1 weapon on them (with a size 2 weapon on a Tali Turret). So how do you get to a Size 6 weapon on a Corvette Turret? Point being you can't define the size of the weapon since CIG is still going through game balance. If the size of weapon on other ships like the Connie or Tali is a 2 then the Corvette should only be a 3-4 .... maybe 5 but definitely not a 6. The size of the weapon is not relevant (since it is a WIP balance issue)..... it should just be one size bigger than the other ships like the Connie / Tali. Could there be a greater number of turrets - sure and what Ben talked about specifically.... at 9:50m into the Bat Girl Vid.

Kamrani-class corvette
From Wing Commander Encyclopedia

Specifications

Class: Corvette
Length: 110 meters
Mass: 5,500 metric tonnes
Max Velocity: 200 kps
Acceleration: Poor (20 k/s^2)
Maximum Y/P/R: 5/5/5 deg/s
Fore Shield: 1000 cm (Phase Shields)
Aft Shield: 1000 cm (Phase Shields)
Front Armor: 500 cm
Right Armor: 500 cm
Left Armor: 500 cm
Rear Armor: 500 cm
Guns: 5 Laser Turrets

^^^ Note the Guns: 5 Laser Turrets <<<---- with NO.... larger turrets to hit bigger ships. Ben specifically mentioned it would be like this ship. Also note they are "Laser Turrets"....... not meant to do big damage to big ships..... but really to shoot down Fighters / Bombers. Could the Polaris have larger fixed weapons - sure but not Spinal Mounted Rail guns. Could the Polaris have missiles, Snub fighter, PDS = very likely. Could it have a few torpedoes....... sure........ but definitely not a single "larger turret than the others" because it would be a waste of a hard-point on the Corvette considering its role and function and capabilities = based on real life corvettes and this specific example that Ben used himself ------>>> 
Kamrani-class corvette




^^^^ @Turtlewing - see above. Think the debate is over

[Gremlich]

CR cis wrong regarding the Argo's status, he's using "snub" as a generic term for the small single seaters which useful for those who are confused and possess minimum vocabulary or context. Snub cargo ship? no, that's just stoopid. It's not a fighter so the term is NOT apt.

The SAME is true for Pocket carrier as a term. A destroyer carrying a helo is not a pocket carrier but by some gamer's definitions, it is, that's also why Chris uses the term - he doesn't want to fight anybody on word usage.

[Riley Egret]

Allright, I apologize but I'll be a bit abrasive but it seems to me that between all the discussions especially on the RSI forum a few people need a reality check.

So we have this:

-pocket carriers are bad,fighters are evil, no hangars

-snubs are cool, yes to snubs

- the 'vette needs the Argo utility ship ( I agree and Ben himself said that), the Argo is a snub so it's cool.

Except... not really.

Go look at the Argo, the Sq42 presentation, Teller's videos about it and consider that it's as big as any fighter out there plus the following:

-if you want to make use of the modularity of the ship it needs an hangar

- if you don't want the pilot to be forced to Eva to the cockpit, the personnel/VIPs/repair material/prisoner/rescued civilian/supplies/ammo etc to eva to an airlock you need an hangar..... and  you know people will throw the Argo out to fit a SH in there(and I don't mind tbh)

About the Kamrani: yes, Ben mentioned it (especially for that laser turret coverage) and it didn't have torpedoes or big ass railguns, but did routinely engage bigger ships than himself (3 took on a terran dreadnought)...quite some lasers must have been those

Edit: just to be clear, I have no idea how the Corvette will be (I think Cig is still in that happy phase where things are still warm and fuzzy about it), but people seems to get very "hot" against the guy next to them that built (what is right now) a castle in the sky different than theirs; especially wanting the Argo but not the hangar seems contradictory.

[VoA]

13 hours ago, Gremlich said:

CR cis wrong regarding the Argo's status, he's using "snub" as a generic term for the small single seaters which useful for those who are confused and possess minimum vocabulary or context. Snub cargo ship? no, that's just stoopid. It's not a fighter so the term is NOT apt.

I agree that the term may not be 100% historically accurate but it is important for players to know how CIG defines it (as a Snub) = so people know its design limitations and the category it fits in relative to the other ships in the verse.

13 hours ago, Gremlich said:

The SAME is true for Pocket carrier as a term. A destroyer carrying a helo is not a pocket carrier but by some gamer's definitions, it is, that's also why Chris uses the term - he doesn't want to fight anybody on word usage.

Agree the terms are often mixed up...... but again it is more important that players understand what is intended for a ship rather than how it is labeled.   It's pretty obvious that the Polaris won't be able to act as a carrier ship (of any kind) for a standard size fighter (since it really isn't big enough as demonstrated by the Idris increasing in size to a Frigate)....... but that doesn't preclude the Polaris from having one or more snubs (like the Connie) = especially since the Polaris is also an RSI ship.

 

4 hours ago, Riley Egret said:

Allright, I apologize but I'll be a bit abrasive but it seems to me that between all the discussions especially on the RSI forum a few people need a reality check.

So we have this:

-pocket carriers are bad,fighters are evil, no hangars

-snubs are cool, yes to snubs

- the 'vette needs the Argo utility ship ( I agree and Ben himself said that), the Argo is a snub so it's cool.

^^ Yes and per above reply to @Gremlich above.... + per JP magazine below that specifically mentions Argos and their use on all UEE capital ships including the corvette.

++++++

Here is the transcript pertaining to the Snub docking from 10FTC and INN (see 4 posts up)

[10:47] J. Stalker asks: We already have a flyable Constellation and a flyable P-52 Merlin. How far are we from a workable tech for docking and undocking? Is this something we can expect in the near future -or is this a functionality planned further down the line
I really want to actually get the p-52 and the constellation to work together cause they are meant to work together. It’s probably something we’ll start to work on with Craig Grounsoll who’s done the sort of landing systems. Still got some landing system stuff that he’s wrapping up for Squadron 42, and some enhancements for star citizen, and this will probably be the next task to get this working.

It’s not that difficult. Basically you just kind of want to get, it’s just like the landing system really. You get in a certain area and you say “ok, dock” and we just sort of bring you in and connect you, and the merlin would be attached to the constellation, and then hopefully you get out and should just be able to enter into the back of the Constellation.

So I do want to get it moving ‘cause it’s actually not that difficult, technically, to get working. It’s really just people have had a whole bunch of other things they are working on first. For instance, you know, we, ah haven’t shown it yet, but you know we have an Idris flying around and you can land inside it, and take off inside it, and walk around it, and it’s pretty cool.

So, that was sort of the higher priority, and we’ve still got some to do on the bigger ships in terms of building it out, like we have this object contain system which we detailed in our February monthly report that just came out, and you know that’s kind of how, well, all the future sort of big stuff like big space ships or space stations and, you know, even the landing areas will be taken care of.

It’s sort of like containers of geometry and objects and stuff that can be nested inside each other, and sort of stream in and out depending on the situation, and that’s how we’ll bring in the interiors of the bigger ships and stuff like that. So we’re doing that but obviously trying to have a dockable Merlin with a Constellation is, you know, on our list.

4 hours ago, Riley Egret said:

Go look at the Argo, the Sq42 presentation, Teller's videos about it and consider that it's as big as any fighter out there plus the following:

-if you want to make use of the modularity of the ship it needs an hangar

- if you don't want the pilot to be forced to Eva to the cockpit, the personnel/VIPs/repair material/prisoner/rescued civilian/supplies/ammo etc to eva to an airlock you need an hangar..... and  you know people will throw the Argo out to fit a SH in there(and I don't mind tbh)

Per the JP image posted above - shows the "mini-Argo" hangar.

4 hours ago, Riley Egret said:

About the Kamrani: yes, Ben mentioned it (especially for that laser turret coverage) and it didn't have torpedoes or big ass railguns, but did routinely engage bigger ships than himself (3 took on a terran dreadnought)...quite some lasers must have been those

Its also balanced for a different game.... but Ben did liken the role of the Polaris to that of a PT Boat.... which matches the role of the Corvette - Fast / Agile / Recon / Escort / but also AA (not like a PT)..... and even "disposable".......... which is why I am so against people lobbying on the RSI forums for large turrets to attack other capital ships on the Polaris.  It is sad how people always lobby for an I-WIN ship when a new concept ship comes out.

5 hours ago, Riley Egret said:

Edit: just to be clear, I have no idea how the Corvette will be (I think Cig is still in that happy phase where things are still warm and fuzzy about it), but people seems to get very "hot" against the guy next to them that built (what is right now) a castle in the sky different than theirs; especially wanting the Argo but not the hangar seems contradictory.

What is also sad is when other jump on the bandwagon and try to twist what CIG says to match what they are lobbying for (instead of trying to understand the ships role or CIG's intent for the ship)

[Riley Egret]

Very nice hangar, just the size if a SH  ( remember, if it fits, it sits).

About the role, well, I absolutely love Ben, but especially at Bensday, welllll.... he says a lot of things

I don't think you're wrong, just that's a bit early to know what will it be ( just look at what happened at the Idris).

[Boildown]

1 hour ago, VoA said:

What is also sad is when other jump on the bandwagon and try to twist what CIG says to match what they are lobbying for (instead of trying to understand the ships role or CIG's intent for the ship)

No offense VoA, but IMO you do this all the time.  That said, in this case I think you're right here, plenty of evidence that the Argo is a utility craft attached with some kind of docking mechanism.  I think its less than what I would consider a "hangar" though, no more than a P-52 Merlin sits in a "hangar" on the Connie.  A hangar (imo) needs to be fully enclosed and pressurized.  I doubt a light corvette has room for that.  I expect that thanks to the docking mechanism, you won't need a spacesuit to get in the Argo from the Polaris, but the Argo will merely be docked and tightly restrained, not in a hangar.

I never had the impression that "snub" was associated with "fighter".  It was the CIG (or more specifically, CR and Ben) indication that a ship lacked a quantum drive, and was small.  I actually think it would be stupid for the Argo to lack a quantum drive.  That greatly diminishes its utility as a shuttle.  And a ship as big as a Corvette needs a shuttle.

This brings up another beef I have with ships that lack quantum drives.  Its been said by CR/Ben that even the P-52 will be capable of landing on planets from space and then returning to orbit.  But how can a ship that's so incredibly slow as a P-52, that doesn't have a quantum drive, get enough speed to get into space?  Its an immersion breaker for anyone with the slightest knowledge of the subject.  At the very least the P-52 and other ships without quantum (I've avoiding using the now-loaded "snub" term) drive need to have some sort of "fast" mode just to make orbital velocities, which are on the order of many thousands of kph for Earth... and more for objects with larger gravitational fields or as you go into higher orbits.

If they respect the above paragraph at all, then the Argo needs a quantum drive, or it fails at being a shuttle.

[Gremlich]

Regarding the Argo needing a quantum drive. Remember the argo coming into the area where the Idrises were? I didn't see any planets, ships, or stations nearby - methinks that's because the Argo (a utility ship vice a snub craft -- a term associated with small fighters) had to come from someplace and someplace is probably too far to make an easy and short flight from which requires a QD.

[faquarl25]

7 minutes ago, Gremlich said:

Regarding the Argo needing a quantum drive. Remember the argo coming into the area where the Idrises were? I didn't see any planets, ships, or stations nearby - methinks that's because the Argo (a utility ship vice a snub craft -- a term associated with small fighters) had to come from someplace and someplace is probably too far to make an easy and short flight from which requires a QD.

Or it could have come from one Idris to go to another. 

[Gremlich]

1 minute ago, faquarl25 said:

Or it could have come from one Idris to go to another. 

not likely considering the vector it approached the ship from - if it was the one off to the right - out the back in the back. AND it was ferrying a new guy who was unfamiliar with the idris. Point taken though.