Tom Villder Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, Karmaslap said: Well, I'd take it any day vs an Idris-P at least Since the Idris doesn't have the railgun advantage, then the Polaris would at least have a fighting chance if: - The Idris didn't have 3 Gladiators (or equivalent). - The Polaris's sabre (or other fighter) is able to coordinate with the turreteers to protect the torpedo area and hold off the Idris's fighters long enough for the Polaris to engage the Idris. - The Polaris pilot is experienced enough to outmaneuver the Idris and coordinate with the tureteers for coverage and torpedo station for a quick lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Polaris is a fast (don't know how much) mover. They said it on AtV that he will jump in attack and be out before they know what was going on. However, I can't see it on a defensive action against caps. It can handle against fighters., but the chance of defending against caps would be really weak, unless it wasn't the largest cap in defense. Anyway, I have found the fact of strike craft more and more appealing for a stealthy ship. Sneak attack, get in, get out quickly. Of course the defending would be for a defensible position. Still see it a very going for us and for the enemy/pirates a deterrent. Defense against non-cap ships will be pretty good, but defense against cap ship very weak. As one strength, speed and weakness is shield and armor against caps. Still tough little nut. For the bottom of the Polaris 3x S4, 1x S5 and 1x S3 Missile launcher. Like ever ship their are weak spots in the complete target area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldon Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Devil Khan said: Polaris is a fast (don't know how much) mover. They said it on AtV that he will jump in attack and be out before they know what was going on. However, I can't see it on a defensive action against caps. It can handle against fighters., but the chance of defending against caps would be really weak, unless it wasn't the largest cap in defense. Anyway, I have found the fact of strike craft more and more appealing for a stealthy ship. Sneak attack, get in, get out quickly. Of course the defending would be for a defensible position. Still see it a very going for us and for the enemy/pirates a deterrent. Defense against non-cap ships will be pretty good, but defense against cap ship very weak. As one strength, speed and weakness is shield and armor against caps. Still tough little nut. For the bottom of the Polaris 3x S4, 1x S5 and 1x S3 Missile launcher. Like ever ship their are weak spots in the complete target area. Eh, I think a strike craft would slow down your quick "get in, shoot, get out" routine. It's good for defending of course, but like has been said : more/bigger turrets would've handled that better probably. When the hangar doors open the ship is briefly vulnerable, as a good shooter can shoot directly inside the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Not quite, "if" I want to launch a small fighter I'll do it before I jump in. It is pointless arguing the Dev's haven't decided on the turret sizing for the ship. Also alot those people who argue thought it was a S1 or S2 because of the scaling. However, the larger the sizing the slower the turret(not weapon). Take the BFG10000 on the starfarer S5 and it is slow to keep a "manual lock" on the fighters. Lets just put it this way, caps and non-caps. Caps she won't last long because she only has large, no cap shield and the ship has minimal armour. railgun confined punching small holes straight through, ACG minimal small damage. A torp the only weapon to take on a cap ship, fighters not included, massive damage, large AoE. Military. describing a fighter-bomber aircraft designed to carry large payloads at high speeds and low altitudes and also to engage in air-to-air combat. Watch AtV again Concept artist said on AtV said "Be quick and deliver a torpedo salvo" and "I'll get in, destroy it and get out" with the gestures carried across that it was focuses on more attack than defense. Again she is fast, that is why she only has 3 large shield generators. unlike 890J only 1 shield generator and the small fact of not being a corvette. The things I like are the fact that she IS focused attacker. It will take several fighters to even dent her, as the Starfarer will attest to. Again we bought at least one and you didn't, you saved money there and in the future if you change your mind fine and even if you want you can buy them cheap of the "grey"market for really cheap value (below the asking price <700-650). However, read the Q&As and the AtV in reference to said ship. Tom Villder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Villder Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, Devil Khan said: "Be quick and deliver a torpedo salvo" and "I'll get in, destroy it and get out" So... the take home point for an Idris captain that is being attacked by a Polaris is concentrate all their firepower on their engines to cripple the ship... they could be considered a weak point, being positioned like that. Alternatively, this is where Ewar could shine? By shutting down their engines or jamming their QD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 You could if you were slow and didn't move from the straight line. Also, everyone was at a turret all the time? It is likely they have ECM or EWAR as SC call it. The Avenger warlock is the only one atm and it is a pulse system. It is short range and only a short time it goes out. However it doesn't stop the ship just knocks out its engine and "steering". SC is meant to have everything with pros and cons. The system will change alot before release and then it will tweak and balancing. Basically the general layout(internal structure has a lot to be desired) of the ship is better than what I had though. Polaris has a mean streak, but the torps are a weakness tali, gladiator and F8. Idris is not to be messed with by a solo polaris, with zero support. That is why a weapons/comms officer is key direct the turrets to focus on one target and a secondary if the turrets can't shoot at the primary target. There is weaknesses that you should be aware of at any ship, most different places. The bigger the ship the more clear the weakness. EG the constellation vertical top and bottom enemy has no clear fire. Even turrets. The Polaris focused role has greater offense, but weaker defense. Greater Speed, but limited time and lesser armour and shield. Sword or Shield, this is the Sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Villder Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Devil Khan said: Sword or Shield, this is the Sword. Can't wait to see how the shield will be like Devil Khan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 oh it will be tough as hell as long as no cap ships involved. Pack of Polarii will be formidable against frigate/destroyers. Tom Villder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painmiester Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The pole. Will be like a short sword. The Idris will be the long sword. The javlin the claymore. And the destroyer. The two handled sword. damage capability ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teefy Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 the pole is a bad abbreviation. please. dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 You don't get it. Sword or Shield, Attacker or Defender. Also Javelin and Idris are two separate classes. This is about the small corvette, the Polaris. I had said that redused shields and lifespan in battle, it increased speed and put the 4 largest torpedoes in front and 5 out of the 7 are pointing forward and two forward fixed missile launchers you'd have to relies. It is an attacker, that jumps in fire torpedoes and jumps out Attacker is high DPS, low shield Defender low DPS, high shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The "Polaris vs. Idris-P" speculation is interesting, but I'd bet anything that the Idris is going to be upgraded with more more and larger turrets and hardpoints. Remember that the Idris' specs were originally for a 100-150 metre Corvette. The Idris is now a 250 metre Frigate and a lot beefier than the corvette version. I have a difficult time believing that CIG will stick to the 7 x S5 ASA turrets after the Idris has nearly doubled in size. I predict that CIG will either up-size the turrets to S6/S7, or upgrade them to quad gun turrets, or 4 new turrets will be added. It would be fairly easy for CIG to add several remote, auto-turrets and/or PDS turrets to the Idris because they wouldn't have to bother with redoing the interior to get the gunners into the turrets. Assuming I'm right about the Idris being updated with more weapons, it will be a much tougher nut to crack. Even if a Polaris managed to stay out of the rail gun's line of fire, if the corvette got too close to the frigate it would get ripped to pieces. And with extra guns, the Idris would have better odds of intercepting incoming torpedoes. Riley Egret 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danakar Endeel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 10 hours ago, Tom Villder said: Can't wait to see how the shield will be like Messer-era Aegis Heavy Corvette! AstroJak and Tom Villder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boildown Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I don't remember where I heard him say it, but CR has said that the Idris now defies normal ship classifications. It isn't accurately called a Frigate either, its more a hybrid between a carrier (pocket variety) and a warship. They aren't going to call it something other than a Frigate because that would mean they'd need to make yet another ship to fulfill all their stretch goal obligations. But the Idris is (stated to be) beyond a "frigate", and as such, is out of the Polaris' league. Besides, they've also said it would take many Polaris' to equal an Idris. They're going to balance the ships until this is so. No amount of counting turrets and torpedo tubes is going to override that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reavern Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 17 hours ago, Boildown said: I don't remember where I heard him say it, but CR has said that the Idris now defies normal ship classifications. It isn't accurately called a Frigate either, its more a hybrid between a carrier (pocket variety) and a warship. They aren't going to call it something other than a Frigate because that would mean they'd need to make yet another ship to fulfill all their stretch goal obligations. But the Idris is (stated to be) beyond a "frigate", and as such, is out of the Polaris' league. Besides, they've also said it would take many Polaris' to equal an Idris. They're going to balance the ships until this is so. No amount of counting turrets and torpedo tubes is going to override that. Interesting. I'd like to know when/where CR said that. A 'Con? 10FtC? ATV? I don't understand why the Idris wouldn't be classified as a frigate anymore. CR told us that the Idris Corvette could carry 2 starfighters when it was first revealed during the June 2013 24-hour Livestream. A year or two later, CIG announced that the Idris was being up-sized to a 250-metre-long frigate and could carry 3 fighters; the reason being that Squadron 42 needed a capital ship that could carry fighters and the Idris was the furthest along in development. However, just because a cap ship can carry a few starfighters doesn't mean it's not a frigate. Modern day frigates carry 1 or 2 helicopters, which take off and land on the ship's helipad and are stored in the stern hangar. Frigates also have several zodiac boats. That doesn't change those frigates to "mini-carriers". It makes sense that the UEE Navy operates frigates that carry fighters, which give the frigate greater versatility and protection. So I don't understand why CR thinks that the Idris is "beyond a frigate". I think it's exactly what a frigate should be in the Star Citizen universe. The last paragraph is in line with what I speculated about the Idris being up-gunned. I figured that would happen when it was up-sized to a frigate but CIG didn't announce anything, presumably because they hadn't finalized the design or specs yet. Considering the weapons of the Polaris, the Idris' weapons loadout should nearly be doubled. Regardless, I don't think it's reasonable to make 3 or more Polaris Corvettes equal an Idris Frigate. Presumably the reason for the Polaris being armed with 4 x Size 10 torpedo tubes is to enable it to punch above its weight-class. If it's "impossible" for a single Polaris to destroy an Idris then how many Corvettes would be necessary to take out a destroyer or larger cap ships? Why even have a corvette armed with torpedoes if it can only take down small game? I suspect that there's more context to the "multiple Polaris' = an Idris" statement; probably a short-range brawl, rather than a long-range "zoom & boom" engagement, which is how CIG said the Polaris is supposed to attack larger cap ships. I suspect that CR/CIG said that to reassure Idris owners who might've been freaking out about a cap ship half the size (and half the price) of an Idris could take out a frigate. I think that if a Polaris launched a surprise attack on an unsuspecting Idris it could cripple the frigate with its first torpedo volley, then pummel it into submission with repeated torpedo strikes, all the while staying out of the range and line of fire of the Idris' main armaments. However, if the Idris was on guard with gunners manning all of its turrets and its 3 fighters running CAP, I don't think the "surprise" torpedo volley would be 100% successful; the Idris would shoot down some of the torpedoes and it's tough enough to withstand 1 or 2 torpedo strikes. If the surprise attack didn't inflict major damage to the Idris, the subsequent torpedo volleys wouldn't be much more effective. So unless the Polaris is willing to expend all of its torpedo and grind down the Idris, and the Idris doesn't jump away, I don't think a Polaris could defeat an Idris one-on-one. If a Polaris was supported by a mixed squadron of starfighters and bombers, then it could probably defeat a lone Idris (plus 3 fighters) in a pitched battle. Trak and Devil Khan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Villder Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 WIP Idris and Polaris from the latest jump point: Devil Khan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Jeeze, Idris looks like it's over 4x the size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanus Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Well, it holds 3x the number of fighters plus an Argo.... So there's an argument to be made for needing 4x the internal volume Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 it is a frigate and the Polaris is a light (small) corvette. I thought it was 3 slots and not 4? However, I don't think it is limited to only 3/4 fighters. Just waiting until someone going to turn it in to a clown ship in a ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Captain Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/21/2016 at 11:32 AM, Teefy said: the pole is a bad abbreviation. please. dont I think I saw the dev team calling the Polaris the 'Polly' in the latest Jump Point notes on the design. On 10/20/2016 at 3:40 PM, Tom Villder said: Since the Idris doesn't have the railgun advantage, then the Polaris would at least have a fighting chance if: - The Idris didn't have 3 Gladiators (or equivalent). - The Polaris's sabre (or other fighter) is able to coordinate with the turreteers to protect the torpedo area and hold off the Idris's fighters long enough for the Polaris to engage the Idris. - The Polaris pilot is experienced enough to outmaneuver the Idris and coordinate with the tureteers for coverage and torpedo station for a quick lock. I agree. Clearly the Idris P will be more threatened than an M by a single Polaris, provided it has stock weapons not upgraded. But the unknown is the strength of the capital shields. If the Idris P comes with capital shields and the Polaris does not, will only one Polaris be able to take the Idris P down fast enough to survive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanus Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 The Idris has slots for 3 fighters on the flight deck, and a special bay that the Argo docks in, when not in use Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teefy Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Captain Quantum said: I think I saw the dev team calling the Polaris the 'Polly' in the latest Jump Point notes on the design. that's equally horrible tbh. Polaris really isnt a long word and polly reminds me of a parrot. are we flying in a parrot? no? right!, i thought not ! Sky Captain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Khan Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 "Polly wanna cracker *squak!*" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painmiester Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Its like a bull dog compared to a terrier. beefy idris 7 hours ago, Teefy said: that's equally horrible tbh. Polaris really isnt a long word and polly reminds me of a parrot. are we flying in a parrot? no? right!, i thought not ! At least they are not. Calling it the pole..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teefy Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Painmiester said: Its like a bull dog compared to a terrier. beefy idris At least they are not. Calling it the pole..... whatever rocks your boat mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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