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faquarl25

Ship comparison

Hello All,

I am just wondering which will be better for profit the reliant or the avenger. The Avenger I assume will be the better fighter, even though it has the same armament and officially the reliant carries more. However, they are both still under production/ redo so the stats don't mean anything. 

I was wondering if you guys know/ suspect one will be better than the other.

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To early to tell. Ask again in a year from now. But for now just buy the one you like the best for whatever reason. 

Ask yourself this however, would you rather trade or bounty hunt? 

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Not sure what you mean by 'profit'. You mean profit in-game? None. Think of it not as buying a ship, but rather donating money to fund the game, and in return getting a ship. You can get both ships in game by just playing the game and earning credits. Whatever you back for now, depends on how much you are willing to donate to fund the game. 

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I am definitely meaning in game. No one should ever back a game like this to make IRL money. I would rather trade. However, once the cells are removed, the amount the avenger will hold will be similar to the reliant. I'll probably just buy the mustang alpha and ccu to whichever one suits me best once they are both out. 

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The Avenger is the better all-round ship, because it has better weapons and hardpoints; its description says it's a ruggedly built military ship, so it should be tougher than a civilian hauler ship; its single TR4 engine should be faster than the Reliant's twin TR1s; and it has decent cargo capacity (and probably will have more with the holding cells removed), although not as much as the Reliant.

The Avenger should be the superior multi-purpose ship, whereas the Reliant is best suited for hauling cargo. If all you're interested in is trading and hauling cargo, the Reliant is the right choice for you. However, if you want the capability to defend your cargo from enemies and perform combat missions for extra creds, the Avenger is the better choice.

Be aware that CIG is currently developing variant models for both the Avenger and Reliant. There will be a two-seater model of the Avenger. And the 3 variant models of the Reliant are:

  • “Researcher” – A science-oriented model that carries internal signal dampeners and an advanced scanner suite for discovery missions.
  • “News Van” – Designed for deep space broadcasting, the ‘News Van’ Reliant adds an Image Enhancement Suite that helps capture every moment of life in the stars.
  • “Skirmisher” – The frontier combat version of the Reliant trades cargo for a high-yield powerplant, stronger shields and additional weapons mounts.

My suggestion is to buy the Mustang Alpha package for now, use it to play AC and earn RECs, then rent the Avenger to test fly it and see if you like it. (Or you could wait for an Avenger "free flight" weekend.) Eventually the Reliant will be flyable, and you can test it too. IMO you won't know if a ship is right for you unless you test fly it, because that's what you'll be doing with your ship the majority of the time: FLYING it. It won't matter how great a ship is for a particular role if you hate the way it flies.

faquarl25, Sparkie, l2k and 2 others like this

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Well...if your looking for a pledge, I would take Avenger.  It handles fine, excels in space combat and is really fast.  you can haul cargo.  Neither ships look like they could haul that much so ... I would say Avenger.

Wait! Do what @Reavern said.  The alpha is a lot of fun and you can convert it to what ever ship you want, by cross chasis upgrade in the store, or earning it in game.

Edited by Scotterius

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Thanks for the great advice. I'll follow Reavern's advice and buy the mustang alpha and have fun in ac and AC 2.0. Then, when both have variants released, i'll pick one. Probably either a cargo hauling avenger or the skirmisher reliant as I am most interested in hauling valuable cargo. I'd be especially interested in the skirmisher as the reliant would have greater bite than the avenger. That would be interesting.... 

My plan in game is to go for either the

Freelancer or the cutlass- (your opinions on this please, again for the valuable cargo)

And then for the connie or skipping it and waiting for my multi year goal: the BMM

The Avenger is the better all-round ship, because it has better weapons and hardpoints; its description says it's a ruggedly built military ship, so it should be tougher than a civilian hauler ship; its single TR4 engine should be faster than the Reliant's twin TR1s; and it has decent cargo capacity (and probably will have more with the holding cells removed), although not as much as the Reliant.

The Avenger should be the superior multi-purpose ship, whereas the Reliant is best suited for hauling cargo. If all you're interested in is trading and hauling cargo, the Reliant is the right choice for you. However, if you want the capability to defend your cargo from enemies and perform combat missions for extra creds, the Avenger is the better choice.

Be aware that CIG is currently developing variant models for both the Avenger and Reliant. There will be a two-seater model of the Avenger. And the 3 variant models of the Reliant are:

My suggestion is to buy the Mustang Alpha package for now, use it to play AC and earn RECs, then rent the Avenger to test fly it and see if you like it. (Or you could wait for an Avenger "free flight" weekend.) Eventually the Reliant will be flyable, and you can test it too. IMO you won't know if a ship is right for you unless you test fly it, because that's what you'll be doing with your ship the majority of the time: FLYING it. It won't matter how great a ship is for a particular role if you hate the way it flies.

As for the reliant, i am not sure about it being slower as they were hinting at something similar to the Kartu-al's thruster rig in the Q&A, though they did say it was not a dedicated thruster rig. My idea is that it is long term boost. So you can use those thrustersas a rig for like 90 seconds of boost, but then can only use the 2 tr1 as main thrusters.

 

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Thanks for the great advice. I'll follow Reavern's advice and buy the mustang alpha and have fun in ac and AC 2.0. Then, when both have variants released, i'll pick one. Probably either a cargo hauling avenger or the skirmisher reliant as I am most interested in hauling valuable cargo. I'd be especially interested in the skirmisher as the reliant would have greater bite than the avenger. That would be interesting.... 

The description of the Reliant's Skirmish variant suggests that it might not have any cargo capacity, which is a common limitation for combat ships:

  • “Skirmisher” – The frontier combat version of the Reliant trades cargo for a high-yield powerplant, stronger shields and additional weapons mounts.

The fact that there isn't a qualifier, like "trades some of its cargo" or "trades most of its cargo", implies that the Skirmish trades "all" of its cargo capacity for the combat-oriented upgrades -- meaning they're located in place of the cargo hold. The description is ambiguous at best. Even if the Skirmisher retains some cargo capacity, it will probably have less capacity than the Avenger.

The Avenger and Reliant are very closely matched. In their default configuration, the Avenger is superior at combat and the Reliant is superior at cargo hauling. It's possible their variant models will swap their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think there's a wrong choice here. As I said, test flying the ships is the best determination for which one is right for you.

My plan in game is to go for either the

Freelancer or the cutlass- (your opinions on this please, again for the valuable cargo)

And then for the connie or skipping it and waiting for my multi year goal: the BMM

If you're interested in cargo capacity, the Freelancer is the clear choice. Also, the Freelancer is currently being re-designed and the greybox models indicate it's about 20% larger, so it'll probably have at least twice the cargo capacity of the Cutlass.

Even in terms of combat, the Cutlass isn't that great, because it's a glass cannon: strong on offense, but weak on defense. The Cutlass' hardpoints rival a Super Hornet, and it can carry Size 2 missiles. However, hits that a Hornet could shrug off will cripple or kill a Cutlass. I have no idea how durable the Freelancer is (or MISC ships in general, because there isn't a single flyable MISC ship yet). If you're primarily interested in hauling cargo, that probably means you'll be attacked more often than you'll be the attacker, so you'll need a ship that can weather a surprise attack and defend itself, or escape. That rules out the Cutlass. I think the Freelancer will be better able to defend itself than a Cutlass.

Another option you should consider is the Constellation Taurus, because it has twice the cargo capacity as the Freelancer MAX, is comparably armed, and it's only slightly more expensive. In terms of value, the Taurus is one of the best ships to have.

You might have to wait longer and save up more money to afford a Taurus, but once you do, you should earn four times as much compared to a Freelancer, and twice as much as a MAX, and be able to afford a Banu Merchantman much sooner.

Malefik likes this

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@Reavern, he is looking at freelancer/cutlass in the game as a goal not a pledge(at least not yet!)

Until we get an ingame pricing system though, we don't really know how those ships rack up.  I fully expect the cutlass to be dirt cheap, with the freelancer and Taurus commanding higher prices.  

Otherwise I completely agree with the other posters-get a Alpha and use REC to try out other ships.

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@Reavern, he is looking at freelancer/cutlass in the game as a goal not a pledge(at least not yet!)

Until we get an ingame pricing system though, we don't really know how those ships rack up.  I fully expect the cutlass to be dirt cheap, with the freelancer and Taurus commanding higher prices.  

Otherwise I completely agree with the other posters-get a Alpha and use REC to try out other ships.

I understood that he was talking about acquiring those ships in-game.

Regarding pledge prices vs. in-game UEC prices, CIG has explained that ships will be priced approx. 3 times their current price. I don't have the source, but I recall that CR (or someone else from CIG) said that a F7C Hornet, which costs $110 as a standalone ship pledge, would cost ~300,000 UECs for a brand new ship. And all ships would scale up accordingly, including the Freelancer and Taurus.

I don't think that Cutlass will be "dirt cheap" in-game -- I think its UEC price will triple, like all of the ships. It's not as if the Cutlass is an old, discontinued ship that no one wants, so it's sold for clearance price. According to the lore, the Cutlass is a very popular ship, used by militia units, search & rescue units, as well as criminals. So if you buy a new Cutlass from a legit ship dealer, it'll probably cost about the same as a Hornet or Freelancer.

I suppose it's possible that used Cutlasses will have poor resale value, because criminal-owned Cutlasses are seized by law enforcement, leading to a surplus of impounded Cutlasses that are sold at auction for low prices -- which would tank the resale value of legit Cutlasses.

Regardless, Star Citizen will have a dynamic economy, which means that ship prices will fluctuate based on supply and demand. I imagine that if you buy a Cutlass from a ship dealer on Earth or Terra, you'll pay full retail price. If you try to buy a Cutlass in a remote star system, it will cost more. Whereas if you go to a Lawless star system, there could be damaged and disabled Cutlasses just drifting through space that can be salvaged for nothing.

I expect that more than anything, buying a ship at a good price will be like the old adage, "It's not important what you know; it's who you know." ;)

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I don't think that Cutlass will be "dirt cheap" in-game -- I think its UEC price will triple, like all of the ships. It's not as if the Cutlass is an old, discontinued ship that no one wants, so it's sold for clearance price. According to the lore, the Cutlass is a very popular ship, used by militia units, search & rescue units, as well as criminals. So if you buy a new Cutlass from a legit ship dealer, it'll probably cost about the same as a Hornet or Freelancer.

When they discussed it as a cheap ship it was really cheap more in terms of maintenance and repair, not cheap as in low quality or purchase price. DRAKE is basically supposed to be the Kalashnikov of spaceships. Rugged, reliable, if it's broken you bang it with a hammer a few times and it's good to go. Sure there are lots of rifles out there that are more accurate and stuff, but if you are an african warlord you go for the kalashnikov, because it's cheap to maintain, reliable, and performs well enough. Same with ingame pirates and frontiersmen, they choose DRAKE because it's cheap to maintain, reliable, and performs well enough. 

I don't know why people call it a glass cannon, it seems to be able to take a reasonable beating in AC youtube vids. 

It's a decent fighter and a decent hauler, it'll probably be a reasonably good multirole ship for people who don't want to specialize and don't have the money for several different specialist ships.

The Avenger is probably the best mid level ship right now, it's a good enough fighter that you see it doing well in AC vids and it has a reasonable cargo bay. The reliant isn't out yet, but appears much less combat capable. (especially note the difference in hitbox size.) If what you want is a multipurpose starter ship the Avenger seems to fit the bill well. People talk a lot about cargo capacity but you can presumably just trade in luxury goods that don't take too much space for most of your early gaming. Just haul briefcases full of diamonds for a while, once you have enough money to be able to fill the cargo bay with luxury goods you can probably afford a bigger ship.

Edited by Swiftsure
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I don't know why people call it a glass cannon, it seems to be able to take a reasonable beating in AC youtube vids. 

I have to disagree, because I definitely consider the Cutlass a glass cannon. Sure, it can take a few hits, but its shields are depleted much quicker than a Hornet or Gladius, and then it'll start taking damage. IME the turret and the engine nacelles are the first to go, which severely impairs the Cutlass. The Hornet and Gladius can lose their wings and parts of their tails, and keep flying and fighting. Whereas the Cutlass tends to get ripped in half in an explosion of hull fragments, which is always fatal. And a direct missile hit is deadly, regardless if it's a Size 1 or larger missile.

It's a decent fighter and a decent hauler, it'll probably be a reasonably good multirole ship for people who don't want to specialize and don't have the money for several different specialist ships.

I agree that the Cutlass is "decent", but there are certainly better multi-role ships available. I would be more cautious flying a Cutlass than I would a Freelancer, even though I don't know how tough the Freelancer is yet. I do know how fragile the Cutlass is, so I'd be concerned about a surprise attack crippling or destroying my ship before I knew what hit me.

I own a Cutlass Blue, which comes equipped with a Size 4 power plant and can equip a larger Size 5 shield gen than the Black or Red. I'm hoping that increases the Cutlass' durability in combat. And if there's an option to up-armour the Cutlass, I'd definitely get that.

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The one question I have is whether the Taurus will be able to defend itself as well as a Freelancer MIS or Max if jumped in the middle of transit. Finally, I see the taurus only has one turret and no snub fighter. Does this mean I could operate at maximum (or near so) with just a friend and a NPC or 2 friends. If so, i will definitely go for it rather than the freelancer for hauling to dangerous areas. Still dreaming of that BMM, such a beautiful ship carries a lot and is well armed. It's the hull for dangerous areas! Also interested in the Gladius for helping in org fights. I don't want to be left in support :). I also want to crew on a Idris, Phoenix, and Javelin and want to see a hornet blown apart by an idris.  

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You can upgrade your taurus in game by buying equipment at equipment dealers on various planets and space stations.

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The one question I have is whether the Taurus will be able to defend itself as well as a Freelancer MIS or Max if jumped in the middle of transit. Finally, I see the taurus only has one turret and no snub fighter. Does this mean I could operate at maximum (or near so) with just a friend and a NPC or 2 friends. If so, i will definitely go for it rather than the freelancer for hauling to dangerous areas. Still dreaming of that BMM, such a beautiful ship carries a lot and is well armed. It's the hull for dangerous areas! Also interested in the Gladius for helping in org fights. I don't want to be left in support :). I also want to crew on a Idris, Phoenix, and Javelin and want to see a hornet blown apart by an idris.  

The Taurus is comparable to the MAX in terms of firepower, whereas the MIS is more powerful because it's a missile boat. I own a MIS, and although it does have some cargo capacity, I'm not going to use it to haul cargo, because the MIS is a ranged combat ship, not a mercantile transport.

The Taurus does come with only one turret installed, and it can be upgraded with a second turret, like any other Constellation. One of the reasons why the Taurus doesn't have the ventral turret is because that space is used as a smuggling compartment, which is more useful to a trader. Also, having only one turret and no snubfighter reduces the Taurus' crew requirements to 2 people. I agree with your statement that the Taurus will be better for venturing into dangerous areas.

The only advantage the MAX might have over a Taurus is superior speed and/or fuel economy, because they both come equipped with 4 x TR4 engines, and the MAX weighs less than half of the Taurus and can only carry half as much cargo. Also, the MAX is smaller than the Taurus and should be able to use smaller jump points, allowing it to take shortcuts that the Taurus can't.

Be aware though, the Freelancers are being updated by CIG and the new versions appear to be larger. Presumably the updated MAX will carry more cargo, but it will definitely be less than the Taurus. And some of its specs might change.

Regardless, I would choose the Taurus, no question.

Of course, as I've suggested before, test flying the ships will be the best way to determine which ship is right for you. The Multi-crew Ships update is expected to be released any time now. :)

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In todays writeup on flight mechanics they say that to quantum travel your shields must be up. This seems like a quite simple and straightforward mechanic for interdiction and makes sense in lore. The most important implication for traders is that our main concern when asking which ship best handles being jumped should be shields and time to get into quantum. All we know about quantum is a single remark that we need to lock on to a target and get up to a set speed, which will presumably take longer for larger ships. So some guesswork would indicate the MAX would be able to jump sooner, while the Taurus carries a bit more but has to rely on shields holding a few seconds longer. Which makes for a pretty good tradeoff in gameplay terms, smaller ships are faster to run but larger ships are harder to stop.  

Edited by Swiftsure

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