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Vanguards: And Then There Were Three


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It's not Aurora vs. Javelin, it's Fighter vs. Fighter.

What we're talking about here is the only medium sized long-range fighter vs. small sized light/medium/heavy fighters which are the most common ships in the game. You shouldn't be needing "more" of the smaller ships to take out a Vanguard pretty much, 1 Hornet or Sabre should be able to take it out just fine in space. I'm okay with light fighters like Arrow taking way too long to take out a Vanguard.

Price isn't a good way to balance things. Vanguard might not be common when the game launches but if the economy stays as is, everyone gets one in a couple of months as it's a cheap, mid-sized ship and it ends up the only fighter you see moving around which brings about boring gameplay and it's the perfect indicator of bad game design.

Medium fighters can't currently outmaneuver Vanguards. Vanguard pilot can just thrust backwards at full speed and you're just not moving out of its sights.

Vanguard basically has no deficits as is. It has beds, a ton of armaments, dual medium shields/power plants/coolers, medium qdrive and its turret will likely get an upgrade to S3s so it actually matters. It's more versatile than it's supposed to be.

All these small sized light/medium/heavy fighters lack hydrogen scoops and they have small qdrives/power plants/weapons/coolers. These are designed to be carrier-based, dedicated fighters with no fuel scoop so they should have the clear upper hand on more versatile ships like Connie/Cutlass/Freelancer/Vanguard if those ships doesn't have actual players on their turrets or snubs etc.

 

 

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[Evocati 3.5] UPDATE: Additional Ships have been added

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We have expanded ship access to include the Vanguard Warden and the Hornet F7C Wildfire.

We will not be taking feedback on ship time to kill balance until after the pip accuracy issue is resolved. Gimbal lock does not update pips properly for ships that have gimbaled weapons. W/A: Used fixed weapons. For the Hornet, disable look-ahead mode for joystick and/or use lead pips for mouse. The fixed weapon Flashfire mount for the Hornet has unintended gimbal motion. W/A: Gimbal lock the weapons. Pips are currently not accurate and moving incorrectly. Ballistic weapons are not applying damage correctly. W/A: Replace any/all ballistics with energy weapons.

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https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16999-Star-Citizen-Monthly-Report-February-2019

Last but by no means least, the interior updates to the Vanguard wrapped up with essentially the entire area from the cockpit seat backwards being completely redone. This is more than was initially anticipated, but the team feels that it’s worth it. Now that the interior rework has been finalized and the framework for the variants agreed upon, the Ship Team can start on the exterior changes to accommodate them and continue with the variant-specific items.

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They are ... awesome. The more wider while keeping the similar length. The fact that the wider room means it does actually look like a long range craft without being cramped in there with more than 1 person. I do like it alot now. All four variants look a lot better. 

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Yeah.... I am not convinced that pod is worth it on the Warden. Heck, they could have done without that extra equipment rack on the Warden for at least 2 SCU. From what I see here I might as well upgrade to the Harbinger. I get additional fire power and armor, still get the ejection beds, a toilet shower, kitchenette. 

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12 hours ago, CaptainSomar said:

Yeah.... I am not convinced that pod is worth it on the Warden. Heck, they could have done without that extra equipment rack on the Warden for at least 2 SCU. From what I see here I might as well upgrade to the Harbinger. I get additional fire power and armor, still get the ejection beds, a toilet shower, kitchenette. 

It's an obvious choice to have the Harbinger as your base model Vanguard (mainly due to the Armor which you can't get by BUKing to a Harbinger - only having it as your base Vanguard).   I have the BUK for the Sentinel ..... and I even melted my BUK for the Warden even though its only $10 (I go back and forth on un-melting it though).

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They just confirmed that the retractable turret is a thing but it won´t be in 3.6 because of time constraints.
Variants are due in 3.7 so my guess is that we will have it then.

3.7 will finally add nose weapon variants. Also you will be able to swap each of the 4 weapons individualy.

The Hoplite will most likely get it´s own loadout aswell. Furthermore the Hoplite is no longer a fixed hull variant and its middle module can be swapped out.

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On 9/14/2019 at 6:59 AM, Riley Egret said:

Based on the last video "Star Citizen Live: All Things Flyable" the Harbinger has 3 size 5 toprs, I am having doubts it can be that useful except in packs, which devalues it quite a bit in my eyes.

Not really - its primary role was never a Bomber...... like a Tali / Eclipse and Gladiator.......... its primary role is Heavy Fighter (it is "still a Vanguard")....... so it will essentially be a "Warden" with heavier armor...... and 3 S5 Torps......... still not bad and if it were to do a 1v1 vs something like a Tali it would probably win.

Another thing to consider is that the Harbinger.... used to be a BUK (a cheap addition to the standard Warden)....... but now each BUK is actually a completely separate variant ship.......... so those that picked them up at the concept sale (all the BUKs) ended up with a lot of cheap variant ships (not just optional components)....... which also makes a it a better "deal" than the Tali from a cost perspective.

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Good player tips...

Vanguard Nose Weapon Variants - 3.7PTU

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For those Vanguard pilots (or potential pilots) that are curious about the new nose-weapons available in 3.7, here's what I've found so far:

MVSA - energy cannon we all know and hate (still stock on Warden)
GVSR - energy repeaters (found in Centremass)
CVSA - ballistic cannons (stock on Harbinger. Found on Olisar and in Centremass), 400 rounds
BRVS - ballistic repeaters (stock on Hoplite according to the patch notes - I haven't confirmed. Found on Olisar and in Centremass), 800 rounds
EVSD - distortion cannons (found in Centremass. Appear bugged in AC - overheat and stop working after a few shots and never cool down again)
ATVS - distortion repeaters (stock on Sentinel. Found on Olisar and in Centremass)

After doing a bit of testing in AC and PU, overclocked GVSR vaporize anything in front of the Vanguard pretty quick, and can still be fired for a reasonable amount of time before overheating.
Seriously, it's almost a continuous beam of focused hatred vomiting out of the nose-udder. It finally almost kinda feels actually useful!

The ammo count on the ballistics is hilariously low (regular S2 Tarantula has 1200 rounds), but then they still haven't fixed the ammo count for the entire standard ballistic repeater line.

The Harbingers' cannons seem to hit a lot harder than the normal MVSA, but that's probably just due to the slight shield-bypass. Ballistic repeaters are more-or-less as effective as the cannons as far as DPS goes, but with a shorter range.

The Sentinel's distortion repeaters are nice. I'm yet to fight something like a Sabre with bonkers shield regen, but I think they stand an OK shot at overcoming it, providing you can keep them on target.
The shield-specific DPS boost you get from opting for distortion guns is really nice against larger targets like Cats, but it's still not doing anything to components, so keep that in mind.

As far as components - the Warden still has the same Military grade C gear;
The Harbinger has mostly Military grade B, except the shields which are Mil D;
Sentinel gear has a bunch of placeholder text, but the shields are Stealth grade B (pretty sure). They don't seem as strong as the Warden's, but they regen pretty quick.
Not sure about the Hoplite.

There's also a bunch more S2 components available, including some Mil grade B shields from Olisar for about 37k credits (FR-76).

Anyway, good hunting!

 
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