Vanguards: And Then There Were Three

[Caldon]

Welp.

Confirmed, CIG doesn't like Vanguard owners. A shame, I really liked the Vanguard. Oh well.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Caldon
Fixed link

[Buckaroo]

On 12/26/2017 at 9:24 AM, Caldon said:

Welp.

Confirmed, CIG doesn't like Vanguard owners. A shame, I really liked the Vanguard. Oh well.

Not sure if you meant to or not, but your "welp" link goes to this page on the SCB forums.  Was this supposed to link to the RSI forums?

[Caldon]

8 hours ago, Buckaroo said:

Not sure if you meant to or not, but your "welp" link goes to this page on the SCB forums.  Was this supposed to link to the RSI forums?

Oh! Yes actually! Oops.

[Donut]

What's the problem? There was never a re-work coming. I think people got confused when they said the Vanguard will get "special attention", meaning, balancing

[GeraldEvans]

Hmm...Someone should edit the title of this thread to "four."

[Donut]

I also specifically remember Chris saying the Vanguard was one of his favorite ships. I highly doubted CIG is trying to burn people who own Vanguards honestly, quite the opposite. I definitely see the Vanguard as the "Paladin" ship in the PU, and before long people will complain of how OP is it.

[Caldon]

Just now, Donut said:

I also specifically remember Chris saying the Vanguard was one of his favorite ships. I highly doubted CIG is trying to burn people who own Vanguards honestly, quite the opposite. I definitely see the Vanguard as the "Paladin" ship in the PU, and before long people will complain of how OP is it.

It reminds me of the Dragon from Avatar, with the Sabre being the normal gunships. That's also kinda why I like it. Maybe when it's on sale again...

[GeraldEvans]

I also specifically remember Chris saying the Vanguard was one of his favorite ships. I highly doubted CIG is trying to burn people who own Vanguards honestly, quite the opposite. I definitely see the Vanguard as the "Paladin" ship in the PU, and before long people will complain of how OP is it.

Apparently the Constellation is one of his favorites as well. I'm still awaiting its birth as space superiority platform.

[Buckaroo]

I've actually been thinking about trading in my Vanguard for a Constellation (Aquila).  It's just not performing what I hoped it would as my F7C-M Super Hornet is a better dog fighter.  I don't have a cargo ship, which was what I hoped the hoplite would be (kind of a heavily armed, lite-cargo runner), so I thought the Aquila would be a better trade off.  I just didn't want a very big ship.

[Scotterius]

@Buckaroo The Connie is pretty sluggish going from the vanguard. Make sure you try the Cutlass. That might be more what you are looking for.

[Buckaroo]

2 minutes ago, Scotterius said:

@Buckaroo The Connie is pretty sluggish going from the vanguard. Make sure you try the Cutlass. That might be more what you are looking for.

I actually once had a Cutlass Blue, and I was thinking about doing a Buy-Back on it.  You're right, the Cutlass is kind of what I'm looking for--except the look of the ship hasn't really ever grown on me.  That and if I do just sell the Vanguard and buy a Cutlass I won't be able to keep the LTI status that I have on the Vanguard (I would if I just upgraded to the Aquila).  But it is an option I'm thinking of too.

[wfja]

I look forward to when more gameplay mechanics and multiplayer activities are implemented into the game. One of the big buy-in factors of the Vanguard is its long-range and versatility. 3.0 doesn't really demonstrate any of that.

It'll be cool when there're multiple systems to jump through, bases and forces to hit-and-run, caps to torp, and squads to drop.

[VoA]

I found this to be a good discussion and wanted to see what people think of the Vanguard in 3.1+ and 3.2? See linked discussion below...

Is the vanguard warden really that bad vs fighter?

 

 

[Wu Jen]

Before launch I would expect the Vanguard to get reworked, with hopefully all of them getting the Hoplites ramp. Then they would be a hella mission configurable ship. 

Need some umph? Put in the Torps from the Harbringer.

Need to attack a static installation? Put in the turret from the Harbringer.

Need ewar? Put in the Sentinel module?

Need to put troops on the ground? Put in the Hopelite bay.

 

But with CIG's change in stance of wanting to sell you moar ships.......instead of making ships more efficient and multirole.....eh...

Being able to outfit the Vanguard for mission specific roles might be too powerful.

[Brightmist]

Modularity is likely scrapped. They likely prefer selling more ships and making more money now.

[VoA]

2 hours ago, Brightmist said:

Modularity is likely scrapped. They likely prefer selling more ships and making more money now.

No Modularity is a stretch goal that they will honor...... including with ships like the Tali and Caterpillar.   FYI the Wardens where never "Modular" ---- BUK (Battlefield Upgrade Kits) are different from Modules (though similar) thus their reduced price vs Modules - details are earlier in this thread.

[GRIZZ]

Todays RTV showed updates to the base vanguard and will affect the variants, in other words their getting a rework.  Better optimizing the interier and they hinted the Harbinger might see more internal Bomb(s).

 

[Brightmist]

They said tweaks, not reworks actually.

All Vanguard models' exterior will be standardized, they're all gonna have Hoplite ramp. Interiors will be redone and standardized except Hoplite.

BUKs gonna transform into upgrade kits(like Idris-K upgrade kit). They're gonna include paint job and related components in these kits and you're gonna be able to transform your Warden into a Sentinel or Harbinger by changing components and paint on it pretty much. BUKs gonna include stuff like torpedoes, Ewar suite, rocket pods for turret etc.

Vanguard modularity pretty much confirmed with RTV. They'll also make it so you'll be able to access ship components from the inside and tweak their sub-components physically. They've also added a huge cabinet for cloth/armor/weapon storage and made the toilet smaller. Engineering station is more or less the same but they're gonna work on turret and maybe external animations later on to make it look more like the original concept.

[Brightmist]

On 11/26/2018 at 5:44 AM, VoA said:

No Modularity is a stretch goal that they will honor...... including with ships like the Tali and Caterpillar.   FYI the Wardens where never "Modular" ---- BUK (Battlefield Upgrade Kits) are different from Modules (though similar) thus their reduced price vs Modules - details are earlier in this thread.

They denied scrapping modularity today and said they might add modules for Cat maybe sometime in the future (soon™) . I don't think they talked about a rework for Tali but I think they'll tweak it.

Vanguards are actually modular now except Hoplite since they're gonna standardize Sentinel and Harbinger around Warden. Exteriors for all 4 will be the same tho. As I understand it, Hoplite won't get beds but it might end up with the ability to equip everything else, that is Ewar suite, torpedoes, turret rocket pods, whole shebang.

 

[GRIZZ]

An album of images from todays RTV

https://imgur.com/a/owvW27Y

[Scotterius]

No external changes?  No changes to nose weapons? 

[Shifty]

1 hour ago, Scotterius said:

No external changes?  No changes to nose weapons? 

They are reworking the pods by making them wider, this requires external changes to the ship. The Hoplite will be the base for all these changes so get used to the wider rear.
They also talked about possible misisle bays in the shoulders like in the concept. They are also tweaking the turret and are investigating if it can actually be made retractable.

But no word about the weapons yet.

[VoA]

I agree with Noobifier on his issue of Balance.   The Harbinger and Sentinel (even after all this time and not having them flyable yet - but soon TM) are some of my favorite ships

 

 

[Brightmist]

I disagree with all his arguments.

IRL X cause IRL Y is not a valid argument since it's not logical. You need to balance ships for the game to be fun or you get everyone flying the same ship even they don't want to. This is also known as bad game balance in any given online game.

Vanguard is already best fighter in its class since it's the only fighter in its class, that is long-range fighter. There are no other dedicated long-range fighters in the game. All the other fighters in the game are small fighters with small qdrives and they don't even have hydrogen fuel scoop so they require refueling pretty frequently.

For starters, we need more long-range fighters. These long-range fighters also need to have limited agility since they're gonna end up medium sized ships with larger shields and more armor so they don't always have the upper hand against smaller fighters in any scenario. It's OK if these fighters can leverage their armor and shields in atmo or during crowded fleet vs. fleet fights or their increased firepower against bigger ships but it's just not okay if smaller fighters can't leverage their agility in space to take these out. Otherwise everyone will just fly a Vanguard and we can just delete all the small fighters from the game pretty much since they'll be irrelevant.

[VoA]

2 hours ago, Brightmist said:

I disagree with all his arguments.

IRL X cause IRL Y is not a valid argument since it's not logical. You need to balance ships for the game to be fun or you get everyone flying the same ship even they don't want to. This is also known as bad game balance in any given online game.

Do you have to balance an Aurora vs a Javelin - obviously not - so per Noobifier....... why do you need to balance a much more expensive / larger / long range Heavy Fighter with a cheap short range Light Fighter?   You don't....... and you shouldn't have to.   It is rock-paper-scissors balance including "needing" more of the smaller cheaper ships to take on the larger more expensive ships.    CIG has said that 100+ Aurora's should be able to take out an Idris

2 hours ago, Brightmist said:

These long-range fighters also need to have limited agility since they're gonna end up medium sized ships with larger shields and more armor so they don't always have the upper hand against smaller fighters in any scenario.

This is the way it is already balanced - Light and Medium Fighters (even the Hornets) can outmaneuver the Vanguards