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VoA

MISC Reliant - Mini Hauler & Variants

288 posts in this topic

Oddly enough, I think the Reliant was picked out of community altruism.  They (the collective amorphous blob that is the Star Citizen community) decided that another starter option would be the best way to assimilate more players into the fan base.  Who knows if they were right?  We'd have likely seen another starter at some point anyways.  I'm curious though, as to why it is jumping forward in the cue over other, older ships.

 

Admittedly, I'm a cynic, so I don't believe the SC community was being altruistic when the majority voted for the Third Starter Ship over the Stealth Ship. I believe the explanation was collective self-interest: the majority of backers in the SC community only have one ship, and they aren't willing or able to spend $100+ on a second ship. But they wanted a second ship, because everyone wants more. So they voted for the Third Starter Ship because they knew it would be less expensive than a $250+ ultimate role ship.

 

As for why the Reliant has been rushed to Concept Sale ahead of ships like the Caterpillar, I believe it's simply because CIG knows that backers want the Reliant, and a new Starter Ship will attract more first-time backers to join the Star Citizen community. As we all know, CIG isn't wanting for funds, but they'll always prioritize the ships that the community wants most and will generate the most revenue.

 

I own a Caterpillar and I'm anxious to see the Caterpillar's updated design, and hopefully variant models, but I understand that the Cat only appeals to a small percentage of backers. I remember a ship poll from at least a year ago about the number of backers who owned each ship, and I think that less than 5% of backers owned a Cat. Whatever the percentage was, the Caterpillar was one of the least "popular" ships -- the only less owned ships were the Idris and Captured Vanduul Scythe, because they were limited number ships.

 

However, I don't think it's a bad thing that the Cat's design and development has been a low priority, especially since CIG began work on Enhanced Ship Modularity. The Cat was described from beginning as highly modular, and the first pics of the Caterpillar revealed a segmented primary hull made of connected modules. The Cat's modular design presumably made it more challenging to design, which is why CIG prioritized simpler and more popular ships ahead of it. Fortunately, by being delayed, the Cat will benefit from CIG's work on ESM, so that when it's finally released, it will have a wide range of modules for players to choose from. :)

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...The Orion Mining Ship isn't a $50 entry-level single-person mining ship; it's the ultimate mining ship, with a crew of 6, costing $325. 

They actually had a smaller mining ship as one of the Wave 4 concept ships... but the community didn't vote on it...... just like they didn't vote on the Drake Dragonfly suit (ship) = CR's favorite...... but ..... Ben mention that CIG will be making them anyway (eventually - maybe even after launch).  I think it is healthy and good for the game for there to be as many ships to select from as possible (just like the real world).... and ship sales (even after launch with $ spent towards UEC) will help continue to fund the game.....

 

Here is a copy of the possible Wave 4 ships (I think we will see all of them eventually - including many of the TNGS)

What role would you like to see for our fourth wave of ships?

 
A
Search and Rescue Ship
 
7%
 
 
 
B
Passenger Liner / Transport
 
8%
 
 
 
 
C
Boarding / Assault Ship
 
12%
 
 
 
D
Repair Ship
 
11%
 
 
 
 
E
Minelayer / Minesweeper
 
4%
 
 
 
F
Salvage Tug
 
3%
 
 
 
 
G
Recon Craft
 
5%
 
 
 
H
Science/Hospital Ship
 
31%
 
 
 
 
I
Third Starter
 
4%
 
 
 
J
Deep Space Fighter (Twin Engine)
 
15%
 
 
 
 
Total Votes: 23988
 

...The Orion Mining Ship isn't a $50 entry-level single-person mining ship; it's the ultimate mining ship, with a crew of 6, costing $325. The Carrack, Reclaimer, Vanguard, Hull D/E, and 890 Jump share that uncompromising "ultimate" role status. 

I don't think there is an "ultimate" ship for any task.  They all have +/- even if they are dedicated to a specific role.  The Orion maybe too big for some asteroid mining... and it maybe too big for asteroid core mining (going inside an asteroid).... thus the other Wave 4 mining ship that Ben did mention specifically we will see one day maybe better in some cases.  Carrack maybe too big for some Jump Point and expensive to operate vs an Aquila, Freelancer Dur, 315P, etc...  The 890 Jump may not be as suitable for some VIP shuttling missions..... because it may need to put up a better defense like a Phoenix.  The Hull E and Reclaimer maybe too big in some cases...... though if there is anything that could claim the ultimate ship for its role - it would be the Reclaimer since size generally won't affect salvage options (though you could argue that you may need a stealth ship to salvage in a highly hostile section of space).... etc...
 

I want a Stealth Reconnaissance Ship, akin to a Blackbird. I want a long-range stealth ship with a "low-flash" stealth jump drive that can execute multiple jumps without refueling; that is virtually undetectable when running silent, but can be detected if the pilot (foolishly) fires weapons or engages the afterburners; that can infiltrate hostile territory to gather intel using passive sensors and/or optics; and then make a discreet exit. And if the player does everything right, the enemy -- regardless if they're human players or NPCs -- will never know that ship was there.  B)

 

I doubt that will be possible with a stealth variant of a Gladius or any existing ship. I think that only a dedicated Stealth Ship could ever be that stealthy. That's why I'm still disappointed that the Reliant was chosen over the Stealth Ship.

 

Regardless, I acknowledge that the Reliant will benefit the Star Citizen community more than a Stealth Ship that only a small percentage of players would ever use.

 

I don't know....... I bought my Gladius for the sole purpose of turning into a stealth ship from day 1..... as you describe.  I do think its smaller twin main thrusters will provide a lower EM and Heat signature - but the variant would still need lower emissions.  The Cross Section of a Gladius is pretty small and it was specifically mentioned in Jump Point mag as a stealth variant.

 

I think the concept of a "Variant" vs originally "dedicated" model to a specific task is only "somewhat" applicable ----- >>> Especially with modularity.  I view Star Citizen ships as "no ship is better than the other"...... they are just different....... or ...... Rock-Paper-Scissors.

 

Admittedly, I'm a cynic, so I don't believe the SC community was being altruistic when the majority voted for the Third Starter Ship over the Stealth Ship. I believe the explanation was collective self-interest: the majority of backers in the SC community only have one ship, and they aren't willing or able to spend $100+ on a second ship. But they wanted a second ship, because everyone wants more. So they voted for the Third Starter Ship because they knew it would be less expensive than a $250+ ultimate role ship.

Agree with you... ... but... the third starter only got 4% of the vote initially - per poll above

 

As for why the Reliant has been rushed to Concept Sale ahead of ships like the Caterpillar, I believe it's simply because CIG knows that backers want the Reliant, and as a new Starter Ship it will attract more first-time backers to join the Star Citizen community. CIG certainly isn't wanting for funds, but they'll always prioritize the ships that the community wants most and will generate the most revenue.

Actually Ben did mention that there are specific parameters set and a hierarchy on which ships get developed first per below..... in order

  1. Ships needed for S42
  2. Single Ship Fighters (for Arena Commander play)
  3. Smaller dual crew ships (Cutlass / Reliant / Freelancer / etc...)
  4. Medium Multi-Crew ships (Connie)
  5. Larger Multi-Crew ships (Caterpillar, Banu MM, etc...)
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Posted:  May 15
 
 
Hello!

The Reliant is a concept sale, so it is only being offered as an add-on ship. No packages (AMD or otherwise) can be upgraded to it. When the Reliant launches in the hangar, anyone with a package (AMD or otherwise) will be able to switch to it.

Posted:  May 16
 
 
Heya - I can't talk about the details of the Reliant yet, but I will say that yes, we know it's more than the Mustang or the Aurora (which aren't the same price, either.) I think you'll agree when you see it that it's a bit more ship than the other starters. And if not... I'll expect to hear about that, too :)
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Not to derail the thread, but the Cat might be a bad example.  You yourself said it has poor community support.  This is not likely due to lack of willing support from the community but it comes out on sale so infrequently with almost know information or official artwork that its not particularly enticing.  During anniversary when I got my Starfarer (or Christmas?) I had to think long and hard about which one I wanted more.  Ultimately Starfarer won out because it has solo cash making opportunities clearly in the description.  I do not know what I could do with the Cat if I had one.  Sure, I love the concept and the offset bridge but, they need to tell me more about it and show me more pics before I'll go for it.

 

Reliant on the other had is a cheap ship, probably easier to concept and produce in the pipeline and they can get it into Arena Commander now without needing the 2.0 upgrades.  It has more appeal to draw more players in and will need to be ready for SQ42 not because it'll be in the campaign but so that they can have it ready for new backers who are going to be arriving in the community.  Not to mention it and the much loved Banu are being trumped by the materials and systems overhauls that are due on most of the ships that we do have.  I would expect though that significant resources will be freed up once the big ships that are in the pipeline (Bengal for one...) are ready to go.

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Not to derail the thread, but the Cat might be a bad example.  You yourself said it has poor community support.  This is not likely due to lack of willing support from the community but it comes out on sale so infrequently with almost know information or official artwork that its not particularly enticing.  During anniversary when I got my Starfarer (or Christmas?) I had to think long and hard about which one I wanted more.  Ultimately Starfarer won out because it has solo cash making opportunities clearly in the description.  I do not know what I could do with the Cat if I had one.  Sure, I love the concept and the offset bridge but, they need to tell me more about it and show me more pics before I'll go for it.

 

Reliant on the other had is a cheap ship, probably easier to concept and produce in the pipeline and they can get it into Arena Commander now without needing the 2.0 upgrades.  It has more appeal to draw more players in and will need to be ready for SQ42 not because it'll be in the campaign but so that they can have it ready for new backers who are going to be arriving in the community.  Not to mention it and the much loved Banu are being trumped by the materials and systems overhauls that are due on most of the ships that we do have.  I would expect though that significant resources will be freed up once the big ships that are in the pipeline (Bengal for one...) are ready to go.

 

I agree that we're sorta derailing the thread in talking about the Cat, but it's tangentially related to how CIG chooses which ships to prioritize. VoA's quote from Ben Lesnick is most likely true, but I'm convinced that popularity and revenue generation are major factors. The 890 Jump is a prime example of this. And if another poll was taken I'm certain that more backers own the $250+ Wave 3 & 4 ships (Reclaimer, Carrack, Orion, Vangard, Hull D/E) than the Caterpillar.

 

The reason for this is that the Caterpillar had a dubious rep from the beginning, born out of CIG's descriptions of the ship:

 

Drake maintains that the Caterpillar, a sprawling, modular spacecraft which appears at least somewhat like its namesake, is for legitimate commerce and extended search and rescue missions… but at the end of the day, the Caterpillar is truly the evil twin of the Freelancer. Designed for supporting pirate operations, the Caterpillar features a large cargo hold for carrying loot, heavier armor than other freighters in its class and room for five crew able to serve in boarding operations. Despite its heavier armor, the Caterpillar isn’t a bulldog… a successful operation will require a fighter escort.

 

During last November's Anniversary Sale, CIG posted this article about the Caterpillar entitled "The Raid Commander" with this pic:

 

Caterpillar-last-sight-1024x474.png

 

 

There's little doubt about what the Cat is intended for. It's been sold as Pirate transport and boarding craft from the beginning, similar to the Cutlass. While the Cutlass was described as also being used by law enforcement (the Blue "Police" variant), frontier militias, and Search & Rescue, the Cat's legitimate roles are only mentioned as a prefatory clause, "Drake maintains that the Caterpillar... is for legitimate commerce and extended search and rescue missions…" preceding the operative clause: "... but at the end of the day, the Caterpillar is truly the evil twin of the Freelancer." Then CIG details the true purpose of the Caterpillar:

 

The phrase ‘fighting transport’ may seem like a contradiction in terms, but it’s accurate here! The Caterpillar is intended to be the centerpiece of pirate raids in the Star Citizen world. Imagine teaming up with your friends to attack a shipping convoy: a squadron of Cutlasses for cover and interdiction, a Herald for Electronic Warfare duties and a Caterpillar for the dirty work. The Caterpillar is highly modular, and can be configured for a number of different roles… even the command pod detaches for a quick getaway. The ‘Cat is also intended as a platform for boarding operations. Pirates can martial their shock troops aboard the ship and then force their way onto larger targets like frigates and cruisers!

 

CIG has definitely designed the Cat to appeal to Pirate Orgs who want an armoured transport for ferrying armed boarders and hauling loot. CIG seems to actually discourage players from using the Cat as a legit mercantile ship based on this article "Clean Shot Shipping Update":

 

The biggest downside’s got nothing to do with the ship itself. It’s the reputation associated with it, due in no small part to me. To every local cop, Advo, merc and Citizen, Drake ships are treated like suspects wherever they go. Sure, the company tries to defuse their ships’ association with the criminal element but come on, we all know better. So the biggest problem with the Caterpillar is the negative attention you’ll receive. Cops will probably scan you more often than you’re used to. Bounty Hunters will probably mark you in their logs just in case a contract ever comes down on you.

 

My point is that the Cat is intended for Pirates, and self-identified Pirates are a small minority in the the RSI Community. There was always going to be piracy in Star Citizen, but I suspect that CIG over-estimated how many players would want to be pirates -- or engage in combat in general, because polls of the SC community indicate that a majority of players are interested in exploration, and combat and mercantile are virtually tied for second. I think the percentages are Explore: 40%, Combat: 30%, and Mercantile: 30%. So CIG kinda made a mistake in designing two ships specifically for Pirates.

 

Consequently, the Caterpillar was placed at the bottom of the ship design and development queue, with virtually every new ship jumping the line ahead of it.

 

The Reliant isn't needed for Squadron 42, and although it's a small two-seater ship that could be flown in Arena Commander, it's definitely not a dogfighter (it's probably going to be slower and less maneuverable than an Aurora). I'm certain that the reason the Reliant has been prioritized and rushed to Concept Sale is to draw in new backers who want a Starter Utility Ship, but don't like the Aurora. I believe that an alien-looking ship, two-seats, and superior utility will be a very appealing combination to new backers.

 

Although, I think that CIG is making a terrible mistake in releasing the Reliant as a standalone ship-only, and not as a game package -- at least not yet. Unlike the other Concept Ships, the Reliant is a Starter Ship -- that's the whole reason why it was chosen! So it doesn't make sense to not bundle it in a starter game package so new backers can buy it and join the SC community. 

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Reliant is on Ship Shape with Lisa Ohanian this week!  It rotates according to the early concept but Ben says that doesn't count because they didn't really show us the ship!

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With the reliant I will make purchasing decision purely on aesthetics.  As for its role, I will have other ships that can cover it.  Although I like the alien ship designs, I didnt purchase any simply because I did not like them enough to pay cash.  "Alien ship? not in MY hangar!" basically.

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The design of the Reliant -- assuming it still looks like that -- is about what I expected. I knew it wouldn't be a radically alien design, like the Khartu-al, but the description says "impossibly sleek lines", and I don't really see that. Sure, it's a flying wing design with a rotating cockpit, but I think the Mustang has a much sleeker design. I suppose the Reliant is "sleek" by MISC standards. :P

 

The description from Ship Shape about the Reliant being just another cargo hauler is very, VERY disappointing. I assume that the base model is a generic design with cargo space for hauling, and there will be variant models for other roles. Regardless, it kinda confirms my criticism of a Third Starter Ship as just being another entry-level multi-role ship that excels at nothing. I really hope the Reliant has some distinctive variants that justify its existence. Otherwise Star Citizen was robbed of Stealth Ship for nothing!  <_<

 

I'll probably buy a Reliant... just 'cuz. ;)

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Official MISC Reliant Q&A Thread

   
 
 
Posted:  May 21
 
 
 
Hey guys! As promised, we're going to do a couple of Reliant Q&A posts next week, to go with the concept sale. If you have any questions about the Reliant, post them here and we'll answer the best ones on the Comm-Link! (We'll be posting Q&A sessions on Wednesday and Friday next week.)

Ben
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I realize the images shown in ATV are not the final version...but I doubt very much the over-all aesthetic has changed much and that being the case, I'm not even tempted.

This may be my least favorite looking ship. Kinda like David Hobbins 'phoned it in' on this one, or was outta good ideas after working on Guardians of the Galaxy and Star Wars.

The final version will have to be way 'cooler' than the flying half-moon thing that we've seen, for me to part with another $50...

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Sale up for reliant

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14730-MISC-Reliant-Now-Available

The ship looks nice and although it has the vertical note of Xi'An, the overall feel of the ship is human. I am going to think about this a bit more but most likely will pick one up. They also announced 3 variants for the ship.

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I'm interested in its medical capability.

Can we land it on Endeavor? I want to use it instead of Cutlass blue just to keep the MISC lineup consistent.

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Check the size. The Endeavor is meant to dock with a Red via the collar. I don't remember it having a hangar bay for the Cutlass. If so though, it's only size limitations that concern you. MISC away!

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