Aegis Idris Frigate

[Donut]

3 minutes ago, Arcanus said:

 

In addition, as I mentioned previously, there is the distinct possibility that ships will be able to spawn and de-pawn on hangar pads (inside the Idris) as the players that park their ships on those pads log in and out of the game. 

That's a neat concept. Perhaps the cargo increases per ship landed and despawned inside, and somebody on the bridge or flight control room can control which ships spawn or stay spawned on the pads. So while the Idris can carry 3/4 Hornets on the pads, there may be another 3/4 in the "cargo" that will show up on the pads when selected. It's not a feature I would find immersive but it is something that could be implemented for a full crew on an Idris. Instead of relying on 3/4 pilots for the escort of the ship you can double that in tense situations.

[Arcanus]

5 minutes ago, Donut said:

That's a neat concept. Perhaps the cargo increases per ship landed and despawned inside, and somebody on the bridge or flight control room can control which ships spawn or stay spawned on the pads. So while the Idris can carry 3/4 Hornets on the pads, there may be another 3/4 in the "cargo" that will show up on the pads when selected. It's not a feature I would find immersive but it is something that could be implemented for a full crew on an Idris. Instead of relying on 3/4 pilots for the escort of the ship you can double that in tense situations.

Don't read too much into it.  The simple fact is that CIG has stated that they will not force ships to remain in game once the player/owner of the ship logs out, while simultaneously they have also stated that they will not keep the hangar space on your (Capital Ship) tied up by ships that are not logged into the game.  How exactly this mechanic will be handled, has not really been specified by CIG yet.

[Devil Khan]

Still didn't answer my question. logged off is. not an answer as it means the player who owns it has control only via logging on/off. Was asking can a player being logged on spawn a fighter that he hadn'd landed on they ship before and could several players do the same for several fighters IR greater that the total of 4. without having to log off/on at any time.

[Donut]

2 minutes ago, Arcanus said:

Don't read too much into it.  The simple fact is that CIG has stated that they will not force ships to remain in game once the player/owner of the ship logs out, while simultaneously they have also stated that they will not keep the hangar space on your (Capital Ship) tied up by ships that are not logged into the game.  How exactly this mechanic will be handled, has not really been specified by CIG yet.

In the original demo you can see a flight control room. I imagine players and NPC's can control what spawns on those pads

[Caldon]

Artist's rendition of ship launching in SC.

[Devil Khan]

Anyway, I think that the Ship is fine. However, there are only two additions redesigning the bridge, not a huge amount, just to lower the two forward seats thus putting the captains chair on higher level. Second is a spongy ramp at the rear very similar to the 3.0 spongy landing gear which should be there at 3.0.

I like the landing gear now that we've seen it in action.

[Painmiester]

If they allow that mechanic in the game  wow  that would be a force multiplier. 5 idris's bringing in  2,3 in bay.if allow to log off on pad and you could do 10+ off line in each ship too launch 75 fighters   could be deployed,most  gladiators, sabers hornets  could cause damage.

[LtAttack]

What immediately comes to mind as a problem, lets say an idris has 4 landing bays (for an example) so you have 4 people dock their ships and then one of those people log off, you then get a 5th person to dock their ship so the 4 bays are full again. What happens when the guy who logged off, logs back on, what controls which ship is then present in the hanger bay? I hope it will be handled the way donut mentioned, in the command room, you can pick which ship is present in the hanger bay. Or will it spawn the other ship again, causing a chain reaction of explosions in the ship.

[Devil Khan]

Idris has only 3 fighters "slots" (fighters are the standard fighter) not 4. 3/4 means the 4th is a "spare" fighter as when the corvette days it was 2/3.

Assuming the landed fighters when playerA logged off and certain time it vanished. All 3 slots are free, then playerB (4th fighter) lands, doesn't log off yet, but playerA logs on and then he doesn't have a fighter as the basic scheme is to go to the flight control deck and "apply" for said ship. The same way  they are handled on stations (crusader) but the size is limited to "small" class of ships. if there is a free slot it will be spawned. If not, it swill tell him. We have always had this since 1.something or other. Assuming they will spawn in the correct FIFO, but assuming then FIAO. it's just refining really. 

Anyway The Idris has 3 hanger slots. actual ship behavior is still unknown. so far Two launch Ramps are there  on the 1st and 2nd slots     

[LtAttack]

3 minutes ago, Devil Khan said:

Idris has only 3 fighters "slots" (fighters are the standard fighter) not 4. 3/4 means the 4th is a "spare" fighter as when the corvette days it was 2/3.

Assuming the landed fighters when playerA logged off and certain time it vanished. All 3 slots are free, then playerB (4th fighter) lands, doesn't log off yet, but playerA logs on and then he doesn't have a fighter as the basic scheme is to go to the flight control deck and "apply" for said ship. The same way  they are handled on stations (crusader) but the size is limited to "small" class of ships. if there is a free slot it will be spawned. If not, it swill tell him. We have always had this since 1.something or other. Assuming they will spawn in the correct FIFO, but assuming then FIAO. it's just refining really. 

Anyway The Idris has 3 hanger slots. actual ship behavior is still unknown. so far Two launch Ramps are there  on the 1st and 2nd slots     

ahh the 3/4 thing had me confused for the longest time, this makes sense, thank you. Curious about the ship behavior as well, but i suppose we wont know till 3.0 lands.

[Painmiester]

That will have to be another item fleet will have to test.might be a way to move Manny ships without an jump drive .during  said migration.or movement .

[Devil Khan]

Yeah sorry :). It's just really they could change the way that it will handle ships on board the idris and they way they are to be "held" by offline. Tbh There is never set in stone like this CIG have been known to do a 180 on certain things. Mind you it wasn't terrible things just different things. 

Also there isn't an up to date confirmation on anything  to do with ships. I mean originally that were supposed to be permanent. Then they have changed it somewhat with our hanger room system and still I don't know whether or not the will have access to all our ships in it, not just you can spawn limited number. Anyway, everything is subject to change heh

Anyway, I'd say it'll be a year before we get an Idris in the PU.

[LtAttack]

Yeah, i hope they implement some system to limit the ships to the correct amount, so if the idris can hold 4 ships max, then you should only be able to field a max of 4 ships all at once. I think this will be best if it went something like this. When you board an idris you sign up to be a crewmember of the ship, so you are now registered on the ship for the mission. But the idris is going to have many more crew than just 4, so when you board there are "slots" you can select, if you select as a "fighter Pilot slot" then your ship will be one of the 4 ships in the hanger (it will spawn in if you logged off at some point within the idris) and u cannot change your role on the crew if you decide to take it on a flight (disallows people to spawn in their ship after you). This will ensure that you dont have 20 ships come out of nowhere from within a single idris. It will also allow flexibility when it comes to peopling logging off and stuff like that. <<<if CIG talked about mechanics around this, i am not aware of it

[J. Coren]

4 hours ago, LtAttack said:

Yeah, i hope they implement some system to limit the ships to the correct amount, so if the idris can hold 4 ships max, then you should only be able to field a max of 4 ships all at once. I think this will be best if it went something like this. When you board an idris you sign up to be a crewmember of the ship, so you are now registered on the ship for the mission. But the idris is going to have many more crew than just 4, so when you board there are "slots" you can select, if you select as a "fighter Pilot slot" then your ship will be one of the 4 ships in the hanger (it will spawn in if you logged off at some point within the idris) and u cannot change your role on the crew if you decide to take it on a flight (disallows people to spawn in their ship after you). This will ensure that you dont have 20 ships come out of nowhere from within a single idris. It will also allow flexibility when it comes to peopling logging off and stuff like that. <<<if CIG talked about mechanics around this, i am not aware of it

I'd prefer the system reward creativity and resourcefulness when it comes to creating a deck layout that allows the maximum number of ships while also granting access to the launchpad. Don't have the ships up and disappear into a "slot". Rather, have them remain and create a logistical issue which requires critical thinking to overcome.

If you can somehow fit 8 Sabres into an Idris hangar and have each still be able to scramble at a reasonable speed, the reward should be that you brought more friends to a fight than your enemy who only brought 3 or 4.

[faquarl25]

2 minutes ago, J. Coren said:

I'd prefer the system reward creativity and resourcefulness when it comes to creating a deck layout that allows the maximum number of ships while also granting access to the launchpad. Don't have the ships up and disappear into a "slot". Rather, have them remain and create a logistical issue which requires critical thinking to overcome.

If you can somehow fit 8 Sabres into an Idris hangar and have each still be able to scramble at a reasonable speed, the reward should be that you brought more friends to a fight than your enemy who only brought 3 or 4.

I agree with this, especially since deck layouts are critical to sortie numbers and rearming turn arounds. I think people are underestimating how much the Idris is going to be used just as a rearming platform. If I develop a way to rearm craft faster then the next guy and train with my crew to execute it, I should be able to implement it, at least in my opinion.

 

[Devil Khan]

Sweet, VERY nice destruction of the capital ship. The explosions are very nice. However, the "skin" just blisters and peals off. I'd have prefered that it would come off as burnt panels and not just as larger chunks, still it is impressive as seen at the Gamecom.

 

[LtAttack]

16 hours ago, J. Coren said:

I'd prefer the system reward creativity and resourcefulness when it comes to creating a deck layout that allows the maximum number of ships while also granting access to the launchpad. Don't have the ships up and disappear into a "slot". Rather, have them remain and create a logistical issue which requires critical thinking to overcome.

If you can somehow fit 8 Sabres into an Idris hangar and have each still be able to scramble at a reasonable speed, the reward should be that you brought more friends to a fight than your enemy who only brought 3 or 4.

I agree with you J. Coren, however at the time i cant think of a system where it would allow that kind of creativity and stop people from gaming the system. The concern i had was that you had 20 people dock into the ship and logoff so their ship disappeared (allowing more to dock), and then when combat initiates, they log on, spawning in their ships in the idris and taking off, this would allow way more fighters from the idris than would reasonably be allowed. I was just suggesting a possible mechanic to stop this loop hole if you will. I would like to see a more flexible system, and im sure there is one, but thats all i got for now :P. Another mechanic i suppose that would allow this is that when you park a ship into the idris it takes up the physical space it occupies, even if the person logs off, but then the problem there is that if the person logs off, your down a fighter that you cant replace. This is all just conjecture, CIG could already have a reasonable system in place, but we just dont know till 3.0 lands.

[FlexBravo]

Howdy space friends,

I wanted touch on the topic around the Idris' hanger and how many ships she can carry.  There was an interview a good while back with Ben where he stated there was no limit on how many ships can land on an Idris hanger.  As many as could fit.  We have certainly seen this with Merlins on a Starfarrer.  However, in order for the Idris to Quantum Jump it could only have it's maximum capacity number in the hanger of 3 + the Argo utility ship, which I believe is housed elsewhere in similar fashion the the Merlin on the Constellation (I could be wrong on this).

If this ends up to be implemented it could certainly lead to some interesting game play.  Many small ships could squeeze in there and ride along.  Perhaps refuel, repair, or just use the other game play stations aboard the Idris.

 

I think an interesting idea for "What happens if the  owner logs off" scenario is for the owner to have an NPC who he owns and gives certain permissions to and it is this NPC "anchor" or "key" who keeps the ship rezzed and houses the ship permissions for all other non-owner players while they are on board the Idris. If there are any real life players on the ship who are authorized, then the anchor NPC stays rezzed and so does the ship.   If there is no one on board, the NPC de-spawns as  does the Idris.  If someone loads in from a bed on board, the NPC spawns in as does the ship.  The non-owner player can use the ship as long as the NPC recognizes him through his owner hierarchy  permission system.  Of course an owner can choose different permissions for different players, including not allowing them to use the ship unless other more trusted non-owner players are on board.

[J. Coren]

4 hours ago, LtAttack said:

*snip*

I doubt fighters will disappear, and if they do CIG has yet to state that.

More than likely, when a fighter enters the ship and snaps to its physics grid it becomes an item in the ship's container system. This means it is now a persistent object within the grid which will remain on the ship and be saved within it until it is moved out.

If this is the case, people have to come to terms with the idea that their ship will likely be shared with other people in their wing and not sperg out when they log on and find a few scuffs on their baby.

[Reavern]

On 9/13/2017 at 3:17 PM, LtAttack said:

What immediately comes to mind as a problem, lets say an idris has 4 landing bays (for an example) so you have 4 people dock their ships and then one of those people log off, you then get a 5th person to dock their ship so the 4 bays are full again. What happens when the guy who logged off, logs back on, what controls which ship is then present in the hanger bay? I hope it will be handled the way donut mentioned, in the command room, you can pick which ship is present in the hanger bay. Or will it spawn the other ship again, causing a chain reaction of explosions in the ship.

I believe it will be handled similar to how players log in to the PU now. If the player logged out aboard the Idris Frigate, they can log back in aboard the ship and spawn inside one of crew quarters, similar to how players currently spawn inside a room in Port Olisar or Grim Hex. When they spawn aboard the Idris, their ship does not automatically spawn in the hangar. Similar to Port Olisar or Grim Hex, the player uses a computer terminal (or their Mobi-glass) to spawn their ship, but only if one of the "landing pads" in the hangar is unoccupied. The player can then hop in their ship and take off. When the ship takes off, the landing pad becomes available for another ship to spawn or land and occupy.

Although, from a realism perspective, the Idris shouldn't be allowed to spawn any ship to its landing pads, because it's only supposed to be able to carry 3 ships. Spawning in a ship and taking off would essentially make the Idris a magic portal or stargate. Dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of ships could be spawned in through a single Idris. I don't think CIG will allow this, because it could be exploited to allow an invasion fleet to be spawned from across the galaxy using a single cap ship. That's unrealistic and too OP -- it can't be allowed!

Ship spawning should be handled more realistically, wherein a player has to fly a ship and land aboard the Idris. The ship will occupy one of the three landing pads inside the Idris. It cannot be despawned from the Idris unless the player who owns the ship logs out. If three players land their ships on the Idris, then log out, three more ships can land. But if the original three players log back in while other three are logged in and landed, the first three players' ships will be automatically transferred to the nearest port -- or another cap ship with hangar space available. But I recognize that even that system could be exploited.

CIG is going to have to figure out the ideal balance between strict realism and fun accessibility.

[FlexBravo]

@Reavern That is an interesting thought.  If it does work like the PU today and a player logs in, ends up in the crew quarters when they spawn, which makes perfect sense.  Then goes to the hanger to summon their ship, if all bays are full they could get that message  "All bays are currently full" and not be able to spawn a ship until there is an empty slot.  That player may have to come to terms with this possibility and occupy their game time performing some other duty on the Idris in the mean time.  Although you may get some pouty people, they'd just have to learn this would be a risk if they want to play aboard an Idris.

[LtAttack]

all your posts are very informative.

@FlexBravo brings up a good point, what happens when the owner of the idris logs off. From what i read in various reddit posts and stuff, the idris will persist if there are players on board. Apparently according to a Redditor, Chris Roberts touched on this subject in an episode, however i have yet to find it. If in the unfortunate event that you, a proud owner of an idris finds that you have been disconnected due to internet issues, i hope you don't regret who you allowed as crew members on your idris.

@J. Coren I think you bring up a good point as well. If you knowingly boarded an idris as part of the crew, i think it would be perfectly acceptable to assume that your assets are now shared with the entire crew. I mean, there is insurance for a reason .

@Reavern i think you pretty much summed up what i think would be the best way of handling it. If a person really really needs off the ship, Im sure a person with a ship in the hanger could simply fly out and let the person spawn in their ship and leave, then re dock. But as you mentioned this would leave a huge exploit allowing players to just spawn in ships. It simply a matter of waiting to see how CIG decides to deal with it. In the meantime, we can throw around ideas and learn a few things from each other.

[Devil Khan]

7 hours ago, FlexBravo said:

Howdy space friends,

I wanted touch on the topic around the Idris' hanger and how many ships she can carry.  There was an interview a good while back with Ben where he stated there was no limit on how many ships can land on an Idris hanger.  As many as could fit.  We have certainly seen this with Merlins on a Starfarrer.  However, in order for the Idris to Quantum Jump it could only have it's maximum capacity number in the hanger of 3 + the Argo utility ship, which I believe is housed elsewhere in similar fashion the the Merlin on the Constellation (I could be wrong on this).

No, I think you misunderstood what he said. It's a "hanger number", but say only Nox bikes then dozens upon dozens of bikes because of the size difference. However, I said 3/4 standard fighter EG Hornet/Sabre/Gladius. There are three slots on the ground which I am using as reference. Also, refuels and rearming can only redo a certain amount of time  before the Idris is dry and has to go back to re-arm. As the Argo can only resupply a small amount of cargo each time.

[Reavern]

15 hours ago, LtAttack said:

@Reavern i think you pretty much summed up what i think would be the best way of handling it. If a person really really needs off the ship, Im sure a person with a ship in the hanger could simply fly out and let the person spawn in their ship and leave, then re dock. But as you mentioned this would leave a huge exploit allowing players to just spawn in ships. It simply a matter of waiting to see how CIG decides to deal with it. In the meantime, we can throw around ideas and learn a few things from each other.

I don't believe that CIG will enforce strict realism, because there'd be too many complaints (i.e. every who complains about cockpit visibility). I think that CIG will implement some game-y compromises in the name of accessibility.

One idea is a cooldown timer for spawning ships in player-owned cap ships. Players will always need to land their ships on the cap ship -- they can't spawn a ship out of thin air -- and when they log out, the ship despawns into a limited number of "offline" ship slots for that cap ship. (Not realistic, but acceptable.) When the player logs back in and spawns aboard the cap ship, they can spawn their ship if there's an unoccupied hangar landing pad, but there should be a 10 minute delay before the ship spawns. This will prevent a cap ship from scrambling extra fighters if it comes under attack. After the delay expires and the ship spawns, another ship cannot be spawned from the cap ship's "offline" ship slots for 30-60 minutes, to prevent exploits. And a cap ship has the same number of offline ship slots as landing pads, i.e. 3 for the Idris, 1 for the Javelin, and 1 for the Polaris.

That said, I think this will rarely be a problem because there will be at least one spaceport, like Port Olisar, in every star system. Perhaps not Vanduul star systems or frontier/undiscovered star systems. But every UEE star system should have a spaceport. It would be "best practices" for a player to land and despawn their ship at a spaceport rather than a cap ship.

[Devil Khan]

all 3 pads are numbered on the Idris btw