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Flying Fortress The Aegis Retaliator

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On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:04 AM, GRIZZ said:

Its a victim of early design.  Pilot has no guns and turrets can't hit things making it pretty useless in the PU other than looking impressive.  

Sorta like the original B-17 'Flying Fortress'.

My view is that the Retaliator is a torpedo delivery platform, first and foremost.  Any guns are on it just to make it a pricklier target.

I still debate selling this ship though.  I like the concept of it.  I just wonder if I will use the Harbinger and Eclipse much more for the same purpose.

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Been talking about CCUing my Tali for a long time (especially since I have most of the other bombers as well) - mainly because I hate the wasted space corridor design..... but just saw this and it made me 😎

Retaliator got a silent Update Pass

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3 Turrets were buffed to 2xS3.
2 turrets were buffed to 2x s2.
Exterior was polished.
Interior materials were polished and component access added.

have not seen any official discussion on this.

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I figured that the Tali would receive an update eventually and its turrets would be buffed. However, I don't think CIG is done with the Tali. This is just an update pass to try to make the Tali relevant again.

I'm certain that CIG plans a major rework for the Tali to fix its poorly designed interior, and hopefully double its torpedo capacity so that it's more distinctive from the other bombers. The Tali's size and crew requirements just don't justify it carrying 6 S9 torpedoes compared to the Eclipse stealth bomber's 3 S9 torpedo capacity. It'll be much easier to find 2 Eclipse owners than 1 Tali owner with 6 friends to crew it. However, if the Tali's torpedo capacity was doubled to 12, then it's 4 Eclipse owners compared to 7 players. And when you consider that the Tali can launch up to 4 torpedoes per volley whereas the Eclipse can launch only 1 torpedo at a time, it's virtually a 1:1 comparison to the Eclipse. Then it becomes a debate whether stealth is comparable to the protection of 5 manned turrets.

I think the problem with the Eclipse is that after its first strike with a single torpedo, it's given away its presence. If the target ship has fighter escorts, they'll be hunting for it, and the Eclipse will have difficulty launching the second and third torpedoes. Whereas the Tali doesn't rely on stealth; it relies on its gunners for protection and its hull and shields are a lot tougher than the Eclipse's, so it can take hits and continue launching torpedoes.

Anyway, I'm pleased that CIG has given the Tali some love after they seemingly forgot about it for 2+ years. But I sincerely hope they have bigger plans for the Tali than just a cosmetic pass.

I think a major factor is whether the Tali will be in Squadron 42 or not? If it is in SQ42, CIG will have to update it before the SP game is released. But an update to the Tali isn't even on the Roadmap, so I don't think it'll be flyable in the SQ42 campaign -- at least not the first episode. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the Tali being reworked properly and taking its place among the best medium-size ships.

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All turrets in medium and large ships are likely gonna be buffed. I'd expect all of them to run at least twin S3s in the future.

I don't expect Tali to get a rework, especially now that they did small updates on it. I don't expect Vanguard to get a rework either, as they've previously stated this. I think they'd rather design new ships than rework old ships at this point.

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26 minutes ago, Brightmist said:

All turrets in medium and large ships are likely gonna be buffed. I'd expect all of them to run at least twin S3s in the future.

I don't expect Tali to get a rework, especially now that they did small updates on it. I don't expect Vanguard to get a rework either, as they've previously stated this. I think they'd rather design new ships than rework old ships at this point.

CIG will rework all of the ships, eventually. You have to remember that CIG wants mainstream gamers to buy Squadron 42 and Star Citizen, not just the existing backers. To appeal to new customers -- and counteract the dubious reputation that SC has because of its crowdfunding model and long development time -- CIG has to demonstrate that SC/SQ42 are AAA games, and the best way to do that is with amazing graphics. Like it or not, the graphics are what sell games to uninformed gamers, a.k.a. mainstream gamers. If a new game looks like garbage, gamers won't give it a chance. They'd rather buy buggy, unfinished games, like Battlefield V and Fallout 76, from big evil publishers that spend hundreds of millions of dollars on game trailers and ads that make the game look spectacular and fun to play. CIG doesn't have that kind of money to waste on ads. And CIG can't control people's perception and biases against Star Citizen. But they can make the game's graphics look incredible.

To accomplish that, CIG needs to update all of the ships to their current standards, which is why the oldest ships, like the Origin 300 series, Freelancer, and Constellation are all being updated, including their variant models. The Retaliator was one of the original 12 ships from the Kickstarter campaign, but it's been virtually forgotten about because of complications with multi-crew ships, the ineffectiveness of manned turrets, and lack of need for a heavy bomber. CIG has been working on all of those game mechanics, but sadly none of them have been implemented yet. It's only a matter of time. Once those game mechanics are functioning properly, the Tali will be relevant again and I'm certain that CIG will rework the whole ship.

Considering how far off Star Citizen's release seems, it's entirely possible they'll rework the ships that have already been reworked, at least one more time.

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They might polish it but I wouldn't expect reworks as long as they're functional. I think they'd rather focus on actually releasing SQ42 and SC instead of just reworking ships.

I agree that they want to appeal to mainstream gamers and best way to do that is actually releasing a finished product at this point. That'll deal with the bias people have pretty much, not graphics. Graphics are also already great/unparalleled.

Turrets are WIP and I expect Tali to be pretty relevant, even in it's current state.

They said they'll do an update on what's happening with all the ships this week so that'll be nice.

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2 hours ago, Brightmist said:

They might polish it but I wouldn't expect reworks as long as they're functional. I think they'd rather focus on actually releasing SQ42 and SC instead of just reworking ships.

I agree that they want to appeal to mainstream gamers and best way to do that is actually releasing a finished product at this point. That'll deal with the bias people have pretty much, not graphics. Graphics are also already great/unparalleled.

Turrets are WIP and I expect Tali to be pretty relevant, even in it's current state.

They said they'll do an update on what's happening with all the ships this week so that'll be nice.

2

We all want CIG to release Squadron 42 and Star Citizen ASAP, but I don't think the thing holding back SC/SQ42 is that ships are unfinished or being reworked. I believe the complex game mechanics (like object container streaming) are the blockers because what CIG is attempting things that have never been done before -- which was why many so-called industry experts (and haters) have alleged that Star Citizen is "impossible". It takes time for CIG to figure out these technical hurdles, and in the meantime, they have countless artists producing ships, characters, weapons, environmental objects, and everything else that is necessary to bring the Persistent Universe to life, as well as complete the Squadron 42 campaign.

The technical aspects of Star Citizen (and SQ42) aren't finished yet, which is why CIG is reworking existing ships while also developing new ones. In a way, it's busy work -- but also necessary. The ships being reworked are the originals, which are also multi-role ships. Multi-role ships are essential for Star Citizen. It's no coincidence that newer ships are more specialized and lack numerous variant models. New players are more likely to choose the original multi-role ships until they figure out what they want to do in the game, then they'll upgrade to a specialty role ship. But if the original ships look like crap compared to the newer ships, new players will be turned off and won't buy SC/SQ42. That's why it's essential for CIG to rework the older ships to bring them up-to-date.

It may seem ridiculous to spend time and resources reworking starter ships like the Aurora or Mustang because many backers have pledged for higher-tier ships and will skip the starters. But new (mainstream) players who buy SQ42 and/or SC at retail will have to start with an Aurora or Mustang, and if those ships don't impress, those players will lose interest long before they can afford a Hornet or Constellation or Idris.

The Retaliator is one of the original 12 ships and it was Hangar Ready back in March 2015. That's nearly 4 years ago! The Aegis Dynamics design guide hadn't even been established at the time, which is why the Tali looks so different compared to newer Aegis ships. That's why CIG did a cosmetic pass on the Retaliator's exterior, so it doesn't look so outdated.

It's certainly an improvement, but it doesn't solve the fundamental flaws with the Tali's design, which are why players stopped flying it. The last time I checked, the Tali can't even carry cargo because the cargo modules haven't been implemented on the Tali. Only the heavy bomber model of the Tali is flyable, which has very limited usefulness in the PU. At the very least, CIG needs to work on the Tali to implement the Cargo, Living, and Dropship modules that were sold 3+ years ago. I believe that the reason CIG hasn't implemented those modules yet is that they plan a major rework for the Tali, so it's pointless to build modules for a ship that is about to change. CIG needs to rework the ship, then create the modules that fit into the updated ship.

We can disagree whether CIG should be reworking the older ships or not, but I'm certain it's just a matter of time before the Tali is reworked.

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Hammerheads are though but they still die if you can put a relevant amount of gunfire on it with a coordinated group.

Torpedoes/Missiles from bombers help you push through shields/shield regen faster to kill HH pretty much. Bombers/Missile boats like Gladiator, Andromeda, MIS, Retaliator are the ships you want in these scenarios flying next to you, not Eclipse. I don't think AI gunners will have trouble hitting big targets like a Hammerhead.

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