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My first impression of the Genesis Starliner was: "Once again, CIG has over-priced a Concept Sale ship -- which is supposed to be sold at a "discounted" price!"  After all, the Genesis Starliner is 2

Also, like they've pointed out, the Genesis is the only ship so far that immediately makes money. If you own one and you make it available NPCs will pay you to get somewhere. No other current ship of

400 is just to much and I've spent crazy money so far. It's just not the kind of ship you ever dream of having. That's just my stupid opinion but I'll buy one in the PU and save my RL money for the he

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Sleek looking, but like I said on another thread..... Where is the $400 price tag?  I think it's great, realistic, and necessary ship, but why this price?  I can see 275-300 for 85 meter ship. Maybe I am not seeing the big picture. 

By length is probably not enough with those multiples decks.

Like the mass value is higher than 890 and Carrack that might put it in perspective but then we don't know if we can trust that number unfortunately.

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So what can I do in a Starliner, that I can't do in the 890J or the Phoenix?

I keep reading the description and all I can think of is StarBabySitter.  This job does not sound fun, not at all.

Also do any of the airlines (what they are modeling this vocation after) make money???  Will there be a bailout for Starliners at some point?

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So what can I do in a Starliner, that I can't do in the 890J or the Phoenix?

I keep reading the description and all I can think of is StarBabySitter.  This job does not sound fun, not at all.

Also do any of the airlines (what they are modeling this vocation after) make money???  Will there be a bailout for Starliners at some point?

Well it sounds as fun as trading and a huge amount of people will be doing that.

 

I don't get why people would want to rip backrooms/ canteens, etc and just have a giant hold to cram people in like the old slave ships.

Ok look, this game is not going to require you to eat food every 30 seconds or fall over dead like most games, but there was a good thread in the subscribers den a while back that talked about how people really only need to eat ~1 day that was very positive about the logistical and gameplay effects about requiring food. On a latter 10ftcm CR was talking about how you would need to occasionally have to shower&eat & that is wouldn't have a huge impact on the game but would be required for peak play.

 

I was referring to the military troop carrier variant. My query was, will they give us a proper drop ship? Redeemer is too small and this is more of a mid sized transport vessel. I just wonder what actual role in the PU would the troop carrier have.

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Hmmm. The design for passenger transport did end up being more than I expected. I will have to see how that gets implemented, but on paper, it certainly has its pluses. I'll withhold judgement while remaining tentatively optimistic.

They made out the Starliner to be the top in its class for transport - luxury-style, long-range, and comprehensive service. Heck, in lore the Imperator, uses a customized version as his personal transport (Air Force One much?). So I figure that in wealthy systems, this kind of ship will be the go-to for the upper-middle class, which is when transporting passengers will get more difficult but much more profitable.

I don't know how it compares to the 890J or the Phoenix. It seems that all of the transport ships they've released to date seem to be top-tier, and I too am confused to see how they all compare. That being said, the committee that settled on the price was made up of a bunch of people who conceptualized the ship and the passenger transport profession, among others, and if they settled on $400, I'm sure they have their reasons.

I won't be managing a passenger transport airline, but I'm sure many will. If you plan too, I'd give the Genesis a serious look.

Though yeah, the look is very alien-y.

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it has TR7 engines, so it'll probably be pretty damn fast, even with it's mass. but everyone here that is stating that it's like the 890J or Starfarer... well, think about this. saying this 400$ vessel is the same as the 890 or Starfarer is like saying the Gladiator is the same as the Retaliator and Vanguard. They all fulfill a bomber roll, they all can take multiple loads of bombs, missiles, and torpedoes. Why would one choose the Retaliator, over a Gladiator, when the Gladiator is so much cheaper? "Because the Tali looks cooler. Because the Tali is bigger and has antimatter missiles. Because the Tali is more configurable." This ship could turn out to be as fast as some racing ships. What do we know now? It's been said that this is like the 747 of space. but what I'm thinking here: this ship is the DC-3 of space. a bit big and unsightly, yet it's fast, maneuverable, and though it is not the most comfy of planes, it can transport up to 24 soldiers per flight, or 12 soldiers and perhaps a jeep. the 890J I think is the 747 or perhaps a Learjet here. beautiful, comfortable, and luxurious (as much as a 747 can be called 'luxurious' as compared to a DC-3. how about we call this a 787 Dreamliner instead?) Yet said Dreamliner is unable to do many of the tasks a DC-3 was able. Can people parachute out of Dreamliners into battle zones, while said Dreamliner attempting to try and avoid some of the black clouds of death? I think the DC-3 (Starliner) will be more of a utility-passenger platform, probably able to fulfill more precise rolls and missions, while the Dreamliner (890J) will be a bit of a more dedicated passenger ship.

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I really like the way the passenger transport mechanic sounds. This sounds like so much fun! I can just imagine running some risky route evading pirates and trying to keep your passengers happy. It sounds so more layered strategically than hauling freight to me.  If the ship had a version without stupid wings, I would be sold. 

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My first impression of the Genesis Starliner was: "Once again, CIG has over-priced a Concept Sale ship -- which is supposed to be sold at a "discounted" price!" <_<

After all, the Genesis Starliner is 20 metres longer than a $225 Constellation Andromeda, is smaller than a $250 Banu Merchantman (and closely resembles a BMM, without the dorsal and ventral fins), and somehow costs $400!? That's only the mid-range model with mixed seating. The Luxury model will probably be an additional $125+, like the Phoenix upgrade for the Constellation. And what if you want to downgrade to the Economy model? Will CIG charge $5 to downgrade the Genesis like they do to downgrade an Andromeda to a Taurus?

I don't understand how CIG comes up with the ship prices. The Reclaimer Salvage Ship cost $350 and it's 160 metres long; and the Orion Mining Ship only cost $325 and it's 170 metres long.

I understand that a ship's size isn't the only factor that determines its price; I presume that the ship's earning potential also factors into the equation. But if it does, does that mean that a Genesis would generate more UECs than an Orion? How is that possible? How much do they charge for Starliner tickets? Or how little will Miners earn from mining resources?

My guess is that a Genesis can be solo-ed with the aid of an NPC crew, whereas an Orion will require a 6 person crew of human players to operate optimally, which means that the Genesis owner doesn't have to split their earnings with as many people. Also, mining will take skill and be hazardous work, whereas transporting passengers will be comparatively easier and not as dangerous. And I'm guessing that in the time it takes to fill an Orion mining ship with extracted resources and transport them to market to sell, a Starliner can make multiple passenger flights.

The following figures are pure speculation, but this is my theory of how the money-making potential of a Genesis vs. an Orion will work:

The average mid-range Genesis passenger flight generates 20,000 UECs, based on 40 passengers x 500 UECs per ticket. The Genesis can complete its flight in 1 hour. It's crewed by 1 player (the ship-owner and pilot) and crewed by 2 NPCs to serve the passengers. Each NPC is paid 1000 UECs per flight.

An Orion, fully loaded with average-value resources, generates 200,000 UECs. It has a crew of 6 players, paid an equal share, with the ship-owner taking a double-share. The Orion is slow, so it takes 30 minutes to find a suitable mining site. Assuming it finds a rich lode of resources, it takes at least 3 hours of work to fill the Orion to capacity. It takes another 30 minutes to travel to the local space station and unload its cargo pods of resources. (It would be smarter and more efficient to use a hauler ship, like a Hull D, to haul the resources to market, so the Orion could keep mining; but it would cost money to hire a hauler ship, so it would throw off the calculations.)

I'll ignore costs like fuel, supplies, landing fees, and maintenance. For sake of simplicity they're equivalent between the two ships. I'll also ignore the possibility of either ship coming under attack by Pirates or Vanduul.

The math works out that the Genesis ship-owner earns 18,000 UECs per 1-hour flight. The Orion ship-owner earns 57,000 UECs per 4-hour mining run (each crew member earns 28,500 UECs); so it works out to 14,285 UECs per hour for the Orion's owner, and 7,143 UECs for the crew.

These estimates reveal that even if an Orion generates 10 times more UECs per mission, the multi-person crew and multiple hours needed complete a mining mission equate to lower income per hour. The Genesis is clearly the better money-maker for the ship owner.

The Orion would need to generate 300,000 UECs per run for the ship-owner to earn 21,429 UECs per hour. Even if an Orion could generate that much, mining will be more hazardous. CIG has explained that asteroids can explode while being drilled if the beam operator is unskilled or reckless. Or the Orion could collide with asteroids. If a mining run goes without incident, it's possible the Orion's maintenance costs could be equivalent to a Genesis Starliner. However, if there is a serious incident, the cost to repair an Orion would severely impact its profits. To operate safely and minimize the risk of damaging the ship, the Orion's crew would need to work more slowly and carefully; so instead of a 4 hour mining run, it could take 5 or 6 hours or more. That's assuming the Orion finds a suitable mining site in 30 minutes, and it only takes 30 minutes to unload its resources. Traveling to the mining site and prospecting for resources could take longer than expected. An exploration ship could be used for prospecting, but that's another player to pay.

Another issue is that the time commitment for mining is significantly greater: 4 hours of hard work to earn any money. Whereas a Genesis Starliner can complete a routine flight in an hour and earn money quicker. If a player only has 2 hours to play Star Citizen, a Starliner owner could complete 2 flights; whereas an Orion owner couldn't complete a mining run in that time. It would also be a challenge to schedule days and times when all 6 players can be online to play together; whereas a Starliner owner can solo according to their own schedule and use NPCs if necessary. Finally, becoming skilled at mining will probably take time; it could take several hours just to learn the basics of one particular crew station (like beam operator or scan operator), and 10+ hours to become skilled in that role. The consequences of unskilled or reckless crew members is far greater for an Orion. The Genesis is probably much easier to pilot and operate; maintaining the ICES blades and MixMaster seems relatively easy, and the stakes aren't as high if you screw up. Medical diagnosis seems like a greater challenge. Regardless, I think that a Genesis owner can learn to ropes of passenger flights more quickly and easily; and since they own the ship, they're more motivated to operate it optimally; whereas a player crewing an Orion might not care as much and be negligent and cause problems.

As I said, all of that is speculation. The estimates for how long an average passenger flight could be, the cost per ticket, the wage of NPCs, the time it takes fill an Orion with resources, and the value of resources; all of those are wild guesses. It's possible a Genesis could only earn 10,000 UECs per 1-hour flight. Or a fully loaded Orion could generate 1,000,000 UECs. We won't know until the PU.

My point is that only CIG knows the factors that determine ship prices. I believe they perform estimates and calculations about a ship's earning potential, which is an important factor in its selling price. I believe that the Genesis will generate a lot of money for its owner, which is why it's priced at $400. CIG chose that price point for a reason -- but I still think it's too high! :P

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I agree, it seems over-priced. It's not even clear as for what are the variants for the Genesis. Right now they only talk about 'potential' variants. Not worth 400$ to me.

 

My first impression of the Genesis Starliner was: "Once again, CIG has over-priced a Concept Sale ship -- which is supposed to be sold at a "discounted" price!" <_<

After all, the Genesis Starliner is 20 metres longer than a $225 Constellation Andromeda, is smaller than a $250 Banu Merchantman (and closely resembles a BMM, without the dorsal and ventral fins), and somehow costs $400!? That's only the mid-range model with mixed seating. The Luxury model will probably be an additional $125+, like the Phoenix upgrade for the Constellation. And what if you want to downgrade to the Economy model? Will CIG charge $5 to downgrade the Genesis like they do to downgrade an Andromeda to a Taurus?

I don't understand how CIG comes up with the ship prices. The Reclaimer Salvage Ship cost $350 and it's 160 metres long; and the Orion Mining Ship only cost $325 and it's 170 metres l

I understand that a ship's size isn't the only factor that determines its price; I presume that the ship's earning potential also factors into the equation. But if it does, does that mean that a Genesis would generate more UECs than an Orion? How is that possible? How much do they charge for Starliner tickets? Or how little will Miners earn from mining resources?

My guess is that a Genesis can be solo-ed with the aid of an NPC crew, whereas an Orion requires a 6 person crew of human players to operate properly, which means that the Genesis owner won't have to split their earnings with as many players. Also, mining will take skill and be hazardous work, whereas transporting passengers will be comparatively easier and not as dangerous. And I'm guessing that in the time it takes to fill an Orion mining ship with extracted resources and transport them to market to sell, a Starliner can make multiple passenger flights.

The following figures are pure speculation, but this is my theory of how the money-making potential of a Genesis vs. an Orion will work:

The average mid-range Genesis passenger flight generates the ship owner 20,000 UECs. 40 passengers x 500 UECs per ticket. The Genesis can complete its flight in 1 hour. It's crewed by 1 player (the ship-owner and pilot) and crewed by 2 NPCs. Each NPC is paid 1000 UECs per flight.

An Orion, fully loaded with average-value resources, generates 200,000 UECs. It has a crew of 6 players, paid an equal share, with the ship-owner taking a double-share. The Orion is slow, so it takes 30 minutes to find a suitable mining site. Assuming it finds a rich lode of resources, it takes at least 3 hours of work to fill the Orion to capacity. It takes another 30 minutes to travel to the local space station and unload its cargo pods of resources. (It would be smarter and more efficient to use a hauler ship, like a Hull D, to haul the resources to market, so the Orion could keep mining; but it would cost money to hire a hauler ship, so it would throw off the calculations.)

I'll ignore costs like fuel, supplies, landing fees, and maintenance. For sake of simplicity they're equivalent between the two ships. I'll also ignore the possibility of either ship coming under attack by Pirates or Vanduul.

The math works out that the Genesis ship-owner earns 18,000 UECs per 1-hour flight. The Orion ship-owner earns 57,000 UECs per 4-hour mining run (each crew member earns 28,500 UECs); so it works out to 14,285 UECs per hour for the Orion's owner, and 7,143 UECs for the crew.

The Genesis is clearly the better money-maker for the ship owner.

The Orion would need to earn 300,000 UECs per run for the ship-owner to earn 21,429 UECs per run. Even if an Orion could earn that much, I expect that mining will be more hazardous. CIG has explained that asteroids can explode while being mined if the mining laser operator is unskilled or reckless. It's also possible the Orion could collide with asteroids. I expect that if a mining run goes without incident, the Orion's maintenance costs might be equivalent to a Genesis Starliner. But if there is a serious incident, the cost to repair an Orion would be significant, and severely impact its profits. To operate safely and minimize the risk of damaging the ship, I expect the Orion's crew would need to work more slowly; so instead of a 4 hour mining run, it could take 5 or 6 hours. And that's assuming the Orion finds a suitable mining site in 30 minutes, and it only takes 30 minutes to unload its resources. Traveling to the mining site and prospecting for resources could take longer than 30 minutes. Perhaps an exploration ship could be used for prospecting, but that's another player to pay.

Another issue is that the time commitment for Mining is significantly greater: 4 hours of hard work to earn any money. Whereas a Genesis Starliner can complete a routine flight in an hour and earn money. If a player only has 2 hours to play Star Citizen, a Starliner owner could complete 2 flights. An Orion owner couldn't complete a mining run. Scheduling days and times when all 6 players can play together would be a challenge. A Starliner owner can solo and use NPCs if necessary, so compatible schedules isn't an issue. Finally, becoming skilled at mining will probably take time; it could take several hours just to learn the basics of one particular crew station (like beam operator or scan operator), and 10+ hours to become skilled. And as I mentioned before, the consequences of unskilled or reckless crew members is far greater for an Orion. The Genesis is probably much easier to pilot, and maintaining the ICES blades and MixMaster seems like it will be relatively easy, and the stakes aren't as high if you screw up. Medical diagnosis seems like a greater challenge. Regardless, I think that a Genesis owner can learn to ropes of passenger flights more quickly and easily; and since they own the ship, they're more motivated to operate it optimally; whereas a player crewing an Orion might not care as much and be negligent and cause problems.

 

As I said, all of that is speculation. The estimates for how long an average passenger flight could be, the cost per ticket, the wage of NPCs, the time it takes fill an Orion with resources, and the value of resources; all of those are wild guesses. It's possible a Genesis could only earn 10,000 UECs per 1-hour flight. Or a fully loaded Orion could generate 1,000,000 UECs. We won't know until the PU.

My point is that only CIG knows the factors that determine ship prices. I believe they perform estimates and calculations about a ship's earning potential, which is an important factor in its selling price. I believe that the Genesis will generate a lot of money for its owner, which is why it's priced at $400. CIG chose that price point for a reason -- but I still think it's too high

 

Edited by Sekthor
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 I just have no interest in ferrying 40 passengers around the galaxy. That's not even as "prestigious" a job as a passenger airline pilot; that's a glorified bus driver. :P

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Brilliant and a good explanation it just doesn't make any sense this ship witch such a small number of passengers 

 

Maybe we will have power-lines in space and a have space trams

 

Magic Budapest trams jumping into hyperspace

775357459362902084.jpg
Edited by Sassem
too many reason why not
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^^^ Good player commentary vid...

-------

 

So if you were to give each rank of fare class as a star.. luxury being 5.. would the a phoenix be a 5.5? and 890 6?

I don't think you can rank luxury that way.  

  • I see the Phoenix as being a more luxurious option for an individual or small group that needs very high security - the top of the VIP heirarchy like Senators, Military Admirals etc...  = A VIP security transport, Touring, and the Phoenix is (so far as we know) the Space Superiority Platform that can more likely best any ship in a 1v1 less than a capital ship (New Corvette and above) = A Heavy Fighter Taking out a Heavy Bomber like the Retaliator, etc...  == Will NOT likely require Fighter Escort Protection.
  • I see the 890 as being a more luxurious option for an individual or small group that isn't as concerned with their safety but more with amenities and having parties on-board with their VIP guests like Celebrities, Corporate CEO's, etc... = A VIP Transport, Touring, Casino (yes we will see these potentially as mentioned on ATV), even an Exploration ship in style, etc.. - but I don't see any military option for the 890 Jump like with the Phoenix or Starliner.  == Will likely require Fighter Escort Protection.
  • I see the Starliner as being a more luxurious option for large group of people that isn't as concerned with their safety but more with amenities and having parties on-board with their "rich" (not necessarily VIP) guests like mid level managers in companies (not CEOs). = Not really a VIP Transport (more just Rich people enjoying a Sim Pod while travelling), Not Touring - Just Transport, a lesser Casino than the 890 Jump  (yes we will see these potentially as mentioned on ATV), Not an Exploration ship in style - just a Point A to Point B transport, etc.. - There will however be important larger capacity troop transport military options and carrying military Rovers and Snub Fighters (per Vid), etc... == Will likely require Fighter Escort Protection for luxury or military version and not likely standard passenger transport variant.

+++

Genesis Starliner Q&A Thread

 
  
 
 
Posted: June 26
 
 
 
Greetings Citizens,

Continuing the great response we've had with previous Q&As for previous concept sales, we'll be collecting questions in this thread for today's upcoming Genesis Starliner from Crusader Industries. We'll be pulling questions and posting a Comm-Link on Wednesday and Friday with answers from our Creative Design Ship Director Ben Lesnick.
Edited by VoA
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I stand by my original position that I have no interest in buying the Genesis Starliner because I'm not interested in driving a glorified space bus.

Regardless, I think CIG missed an opportunity with the Genesis, and should've expanded the line-up of Starliners by designing multiple sizes of passenger starships, similar to what they did with the Hull series. Because one 80-metre 40-passenger $400 Starliner is a very high price point for the only passenger ship in Star Citizen. I think there should be at least 3 size-models of Starliner:

1. Small Starliner / Shuttle:

  • Entry-level passenger starship -- equivalent to a shuttle bus or regional commuter flight aircraft
  • ~40 metres long
  • ~20 passengers (Economy)
  • Crew: 1-2 (Pilot, optional Flight Attendant)
  • Price: $150 (Base "Economy" model)
  • Jump Engine: Not equipped -- Optional upgrade
  • Range: Short - Orbital hops and intra-system commutes; Inter-system Jump Point travel possible with Jump Engine and refueling stops or additional fuel tanks
  • Variants: Touring "Sight-seeing" model; Luxury "Private Jet" model (4-8 Luxury passengers); Military "Dropship" model (20 Marines, plus additional crew for RIO, gunners, flight engineers, etc.); Medical Transport (6-8 patients, plus med-tech crew); Prisoner Transport (20 holding cells, plus 2 guards)

2. Genesis Medium Starliner:

  • Mid-range passenger starship -- equivalent to a coach bus or domestic flight aircraft
  • 80 metres long
  • 40 passengers
  • Crew: 8
  • Price: $250 (Base "Economy" model -- not "Mixed model" like current Genesis)
  • Jump Engine: Standard-class equipped
  • Range: Medium - Inter-system travel, 1 or 2 Jumps before refueling, or additional fuel tanks
  • Variants: Mixed Passenger model; Luxury model; Military Transport model; Military "AWACS" Surveillance/Command & Control model (8+ C&C techs, co-pilot/RIO, gunners, and multiple engineers essential for maintaining extensive electronics suite and multiple power plants)

3. Large Starliner:

  • Large-scale passenger starship -- equivalent to an international flight aircraft or cruise-liner
  • 120-150 metres long
  • 100+ passengers (Economy)
  • Crew: 10+
  • Price: $400 (Base "Economy" model)
  • Jump Engine: Endurance-class equipped
  • Range: Long - Inter-system travel, 4+ Jumps before refueling
  • Variants: Mixed Passenger model; Luxury "Cruise Ship" model; Military Transport model; Colony "Pioneer" Transport (50+ Colonists, equipment, supplies, 2-4 rovers, 1 small Jump-capable ship)

I don't understand why CIG released the Mixed Passenger model as the Concept Sale Ship. I predict a $$ downgrade scam, similar to what happened with the Constellation Taurus, wherein Andromeda owners had to pay $5 to downgrade to the Taurus, which was priced $75 less. It makes much more sense to start with an All-Economy-seating Base model that costs less $$$ so it's more affordable. I think $250 would be a fair price point for a 40-passenger Economy Starliner with zero amenities (no in-flight entertainment or meal/drink service, just restrooms). If backers choose to buy the upgrade models when they're released, the price could end up being around $400 anyway, but pricing the Economy Starliner lower, it's affordable to more backers wanting to be passenger ship pilots.

Again, I'm not interested in flying or buying a Starliner at all, but I think CIG should re-visit the Starliner concept and create more passenger ships so that players can choose that profession earlier on, rather than having to work other professions until they can afford an expensive Genesis Starliner.

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