Come on CIG - Show Japan The Love

[Overlord]

Sorry but I just have to say what on earth is CIG doing? Now don't get me wrong, CIG is doing outstanding work but who goes to Australia, the 13th largest economy with 3rd world internet and a population of 23 million yet completely ignores Japan - the 3rd largest economy with superb internet and a population of 127 million!!?? Sure I can understand CIG focusing on English speaking countries and countries that also speak English as a second language and Japan doesn't really fit the bill - but a little Japanese can go a long way! This will only require the most modest efforts, like hiring a single Japanese national to promote Star Citizen in Japanese - officially. Given the rather massive budget that SC now enjoys and a rather large staff, I think this is a minimal requirement that may end up paying dividends.

 

So come on CIG, get someone who can at least translate your website into Japanese - the game itself can come later - and you will not only get a lot of love in return but a lot of yen too! Also you might want to send someone to the Tokyo Game Show next year or other events until then. And of course there is that added benefit of not having livesteams crash all the time.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[danredda]

1 reason. Pax. It's publicity and marketing. Not to mention when I talked to Chris, aus has the largest average per backer pledge amount, as well as the largest percentage of backers to population. Plus it helps when Sandi is from down here. Japan is quite a niche market AFAIK (@stealthguy will prove me wrong lol) with themselves preferring locally developed games over those from foreign companies.

Plus we never get anything down here...

Edit: also the live stream issues isn't us. CIG had a gigabit line at games com and it still crashed. They aren't too good at streaming outside the US IMO.

[Osclin]

Yeah, to my knowledge they haven't done any standalone events aside from Citizen Con, everything else has been tied to a larger event (yes, I know they had their own separate locations for the gathering, but they used the added draw of the other conventions to make it a bigger event).  Might as well have asked why Pax was held in Melbourne, when Sydney would have made a "better" location, though that too had perfectly understandable reasons.  I too would like to see CIG eventually make a bigger push to attract players from non-western (cultural, not geographic) countries, but trying to do an FPS module reveal in Japan without the added draw of a Pax-like event would probably have resulted in an audience of 50 people (very happy people, surely, but still).

[Overlord]

1 reason. Pax. It's publicity and marketing. Not to mention when I talked to Chris, aus has the largest average per backer pledge amount, as well as the largest percentage of backers to population. Plus it helps when Sandi is from down here. Japan is quite a niche market AFAIK (@stealthguy will prove me wrong lol) with themselves preferring locally developed games over those from foreign companies.

Plus we never get anything down here...

Edit: also the live stream issues isn't us. CIG had a gigabit line at games com and it still crashed. They aren't too good at streaming outside the US IMO.

Hmmm....doesn't seem to be those streaming problems from Japan. If you really want to participate in the Japanese market, you can't do it like you would in North America. Not talking major investments but a simple translation of their website would be a good start. Trust me, if CIG made at least a modest effort to promote SC in Japan, Australia would look pretty tame in terms of support. As for niche market, FPS games are gaining in popularity so why ignore it? And with a population of 127 million niche players or even 50 million niche players, I am pretty sure it would be worth promoting in Japan. Besides, I seem to remember PC gaming was for niche players and the PC was practically dead > but look at us now!

Still think Japan needs some SC love.

Yeah, to my knowledge they haven't done any standalone events aside from Citizen Con, everything else has been tied to a larger event (yes, I know they had their own separate locations for the gathering, but they used the added draw of the other conventions to make it a bigger event). Might as well have asked why Pax was held in Melbourne, when Sydney would have made a "better" location, though that too had perfectly understandable reasons. I too would like to see CIG eventually make a bigger push to attract players from non-western (cultural, not geographic) countries, but trying to do an FPS module reveal in Japan without the added draw of a Pax-like event would probably have resulted in an audience of 50 people (very happy people, surely, but still).

Don't know why you would presuppose 50 people in a country of 127 million. Sorry but that is some pretty fuzzy math; especially since there are events all over Japan and not just the Tokyo show.

[Osclin]

Don't know why you would presuppose 50 people in a country of 127 million. Sorry but that is some pretty fuzzy math; especially since there are events all over Japan and not just the Tokyo show. 

 

Was specifically talking about this event/reveal, with this timing.  Without Pax there wouldn't have been nearly as many people at the event today.  No matter how juicy the anticipation gets for a game you won't find hundreds of people willing to incur that kind of expense for a rather short event.  Combine that with no noticeable push yet to attract Japanese players, and I'm pretty sure my numbers would hold true enough.  Holding an event in a country isn't the first step you take to get your game running in said country, it is about the 20th step, as you yourself admitted in your tangent about translating the website.  

 

I know you used the Pax event as a jumping off point for what your larger argument, but you'd be better served by making that argument in its logical order.  If you laid out the various steps you believe could/should be taken to attract non-western players and included a presentation in your plan, then I'd say it sounded like a generally good idea(though I would have some questions about your equally fuzzy math regarding payoff in Japan.  Not saying they wouldn't gobble the game up, but simply stating their population doesn't mean anything in itself, there are many factors which influence any given culture's preferences for entertainment media).  But instead you whinged about this event, at this time, taking place in Australia instead of Japan.  And I'm saying that without a lot of groundwork done well beforehand it would have ended up more a pandering disaster than a successful pitch to Japanese players.

[Ywaik]

I wouldn't mind SC promoting a bit more in China myself lol.

[Osclin]

I wouldn't mind SC promoting a bit more in China myself lol.

 

Aye, but pretty sure that will have to wait until the game is being readied for its official launch.  At the moment they really aren't "promoting" the game.  They put out videos for us to make our friends watch, go to conventions and give interviews for the gaming press, but that is really it atm.  Once they're approaching launch I'm sure they'll do a lot more actual promotion, though I have no clue how much they'll do targeting specific regions.

[Valturion]

Sure I can understand CIG focusing on English speaking countries and countries that also speak English as a second language and Japan doesn't really fit the bill

 

This largely answers your original question.

 

Also, the more foreign the market, the more CIG would probably need a publisher for that region. I'd prefer for SC to officially launch and then people start talking about adapting the game for areas like China, Japan, and Russia. So far, development has been phenomenal, and the last thing I want to see is another country's censorship laws forcing the game to be anything other than what it was meant to be.

[Overlord]

Was specifically talking about this event/reveal, with this timing. Without Pax there wouldn't have been nearly as many people at the event today. No matter how juicy the anticipation gets for a game you won't find hundreds of people willing to incur that kind of expense for a rather short event. Combine that with no noticeable push yet to attract Japanese players, and I'm pretty sure my numbers would hold true enough. Holding an event in a country isn't the first step you take to get your game running in said country, it is about the 20th step, as you yourself admitted in your tangent about translating the website.

I know you used the Pax event as a jumping off point for what your larger argument, but you'd be better served by making that argument in its logical order. If you laid out the various steps you believe could/should be taken to attract non-western players and included a presentation in your plan, then I'd say it sounded like a generally good idea(though I would have some questions about your equally fuzzy math regarding payoff in Japan. Not saying they wouldn't gobble the game up, but simply stating their population doesn't mean anything in itself, there are many factors which influence any given culture's preferences for entertainment media). But instead you whinged about this event, at this time, taking place in Australia instead of Japan. And I'm saying that without a lot of groundwork done well beforehand it would have ended up more a pandering disaster than a successful pitch to Japanese players.

Hmm...you do realize that Japan is a densely populated country? So the willingness to incur that 'kind of expense' to attend isn't the same here. Moreover, as I have stated, there are other events that SC could attend - soloing it isn't necessary. As for my tangent about translating the web site, if you want to promote in Asia I am afraid translating is what you are going to have to do.

Groundwork? Various steps? Presentations? You sound like a Publicist. I'm just wondering, how much ground work did Chris Roberts do when starting Star Citizen other than building the game? Nothing. He allowed the game and his dream take hold. He didn't have a focus group, the standard publicists and other trappings that are typical today. It was us that pushed the game in our respective countries. But if you think the Japanese can follow suit without even the most basic information in their native language then you are dreaming. They can't participate when they don't have information.

Anyway, I will leave it at that. Give Japan some love or they end up looking like this:

And no one wants that!

This largely answers your original question.

Also, the more foreign the market, the more CIG would probably need a publisher for that region. I'd prefer for SC to officially launch and then people start talking about adapting the game for areas like China, Japan, and Russia. So far, development has been phenomenal, and the last thing I want to see is another country's censorship laws forcing the game to be anything other than what it was meant to be.

Information is the key. And if people don't have it then SC will not take off in Japan or China. First SC should look to making inroads as cheap as possible and a translation of a website is a good deal cheaper than a publicist. Information is the key - start there.

[Osclin]

First, he said publisher, not publicist.  Localization is a pretty damn intense process for an entire game, particularly when dealing with issues like the in-game galactipedia, procedural quest generation, mobiglas, not to mention how much of in-game interaction with npcs will be voice acted, requiring either another layer of localized voice acting or properly done translations of text.  Many game companies use others for such localization, often having them run their own servers of said game with varying results (to shortcut some of that process Turbine originally contracted with Code Masters in the EU for LotRO). 

 

To answer your reply to me, no, I'm not a publicist, I'm a high school history teacher, one who likes to plan and then act impulsively, rather than the other way around.  Like I said, I'm all for expanding the reach of the game, but I'd prefer things be done in some semblance of proper order.  Namely: 1) try to get some gauge of potential interest in the game beyond quoting 127 million population(hell, wing commander sales figures might even be enough), 2) Provided step one wasn't met by gales of laughter, begin translating the website and related documents, 3) send a representative to that country's relevant gaming expos replete with tons of information, videos, playable demos, and flashy flashy lights, 4)  participate in interviews while at expos to gain exposure in that country's gaming press, 5) track regions of new pledgers and repeat steps 3/4, 6)  when you've built enough of a base so Chris Robert's appearance quaffing sake while crashing into asteroids will be funny instead of humiliating, have higher level appearances at said expos, up to and including the reveal of big new shiney modules.  Anything less would be half-assed and a waste of time and money.

[Overlord]

First, he said publisher, not publicist.  Localization is a pretty damn intense process for an entire game, particularly when dealing with issues like the in-game galactipedia, procedural quest generation, mobiglas, not to mention how much of in-game interaction with npcs will be voice acted, requiring either another layer of localized voice acting or properly done translations of text.  Many game companies use others for such localization, often having them run their own servers of said game with varying results (to shortcut some of that process Turbine originally contracted with Code Masters in the EU for LotRO). 

 

To answer your reply to me, no, I'm not a publicist, I'm a high school history teacher, one who likes to plan and then act impulsively, rather than the other way around.  Like I said, I'm all for expanding the reach of the game, but I'd prefer things be done in some semblance of proper order.  Namely: 1) try to get some gauge of potential interest in the game beyond quoting 127 million population(hell, wing commander sales figures might even be enough), 2) Provided step one wasn't met by gales of laughter, begin translating the website and related documents, 3) send a representative to that country's relevant gaming expos replete with tons of information, videos, playable demos, and flashy flashy lights, 4)  participate in interviews while at expos to gain exposure in that country's gaming press, 5) track regions of new pledgers and repeat steps 3/4, 6)  when you've built enough of a base so Chris Robert's appearance quaffing sake while crashing into asteroids will be funny instead of humiliating, have higher level appearances at said expos, up to and including the reveal of big new shiney modules.  Anything less would be half-assed and a waste of time and money.

I'm confused by your statement 'one who likes to plan and then act impulsively'. Did you mean one who likes to plan then act accordingly? Well, all I can say is I'm glad Chris Roberts didn't take your advise when he started off or we would have to add another 4 years before release, or worse yet have another publicist pocketing a good deal of the profits. And I am amazed, as a teacher, that you don't understand the value of communication. Instead you want to throw SC into a quagmire of statistics, focus groups, studies before getting anything done. This is simply hogwash. You are over complicating things unnecessarily. Again, start with communication > that usually has good results. As a teacher I would have thought you would understand that.

 

I should also add that everyone has their view but I find it interesting that people with little to no knowledge of the Japanese culture have a clearly defined map on how to market in Japan. Take a step back, open dialogue then see if you need what you are espousing. Start at 'A' not 'M' and you might find you may not even have to reach that high in the first place. Besides, you can send half of America to Japan to promote SC but they will look at you like some mad, crazy gaijin if you don't even have a single website they can understand. 

[Osclin]

Ugh, I quit. 

[Overlord]

Ugh, I quit. 

Don't quit. That's not the samurai spirit! 

[Valturion]

Overlord, why are you writing as if Osclin said something completely contradictory to your idea? Step two of Osclin's statement is essentially verbatim of what it is you are wanting.

 

 

However, I cannot comment further for there is something else I must address on principle.

 

I am amazed, as a teacher, that you don't understand the value of communication.

As a teacher I would have thought you would understand that.

 

It is not my place to adjudicate behavior; therefore, I will only say that I find these statements vile and unnecessary.

[Overlord]

Overlord, why are you writing as if Osclin said something completely contradictory to your idea? Step two of Osclin's statement is essentially verbatim of what it is you are wanting.

 

 

However, I cannot comment further for there is something else I must address on principle.

 

 

It is not my place to adjudicate behavior; therefore, I will only say that I find these statements vile and unnecessary.

Hmmm......sorry but when I see people pulling numbers out of their ass like 55 out of 127 million than I figure that person has no idea what he or she is talking about. I also believe that to get from here to there one needs to have a starting point like a website in the Japanese language. But instead Osclin demonstrated his in depth knowledge of the Japanese culture by sarcastically posting, what was that?, oh yes, my 'tangent about translating the website'. Look, if you want to ignore a country with 127 million people, many of whom are avid gamers, then be my guest. And if you want to defend the first person to throw slights then that is your prerogative. I wouldn't call it vile because that is just hyperbole, but it certainly was unnecessary. 

[Nameless]

The key point you mentioned, translating the website, is rather hard to fulfill at the moment. If they translate the website, people expect more than that. The game that isn't finished probably needs to be translated, a separate forum etc.

Also the website itself would be a major effort. Every article posted there would have to be translated as well.

Furthermore if one group gets something, others want that too.

 

More important they would require personnel for that: Moderators, but more important developers that are able to answer questions and a Customer support.

 

Star Citizen has always relied on word of mouth for promotion. So it is up to you, to spread the word.

[Valenquo]

And we have already seen this year how 127 million niche players can fail in Japan:

 

(Xbox One release day)

[Fjnfnffnfn8485858]

Personally I would love to see more SC events in Australia, as we barely ever get events like this. It's good to see we have not been forgotten about. This year my self I could not attend due to age restrictions but If we have another next year; I would definitely attend!   

[pyro nl]

theres a age restriction o.0

[Overlord]

The key point you mentioned, translating the website, is rather hard to fulfill at the moment. If they translate the website, people expect more than that. The game that isn't finished probably needs to be translated, a separate forum etc.

Also the website itself would be a major effort. Every article posted there would have to be translated as well.

Furthermore if one group gets something, others want that too.

 

More important they would require personnel for that: Moderators, but more important developers that are able to answer questions and a Customer support.

 

Star Citizen has always relied on word of mouth for promotion. So it is up to you, to spread the word.

Good points - all! And ones I totally agree with until the last one. 'Star Citizen has always relied on the word of mouth for promotion. So it is up to you, to spread the word'. The word cannot be spread if the word is in English. That is my point. And sure, I agree that others will want the same thing and if it were up to me I would be immediately working on making it available in not only in Japanese but other languages as well. And to be honest, I'm pretty sure Star Citizen can afford it now. 

[Overlord]

And we have already seen this year how 127 million niche players can fail in Japan:

 

(Xbox One release day)

Of course - it's X-box! That is like saying 'That product that causes blindness isn't selling in Japan for some reason so your product, which is entirely different, is also in danger of not selling well'. But lets take a step back and look at the X-box argument: x-box sold over 23,562 consoles in Japan; so if you took the minimum pledge fee of $40 plus module fee $5, it comes out to 1,060,290. Not bad based on numbers for a fail product don't you think! Or are we all getting a little too greedy? Oh and don't forget that is the absolute minimum buy in. X-boxes are a tad more expensive. 

 

 

 

And by the way, your picture doesn't tell the whole story. 

[Valenquo]

Yeah I know, I did not quote or anything either. 

 

But I do think that the cost, especially since it would come out of development money, is to high for any type of localisation at this point. And the risk and rewards not tangible enough. better spend those tens of thousands in producing the BDSE.

[Overlord]

We should also note that websites are not just a source of information. For some it is a second home, a place to meet up with friends and a place to exchange ideas. For some it is a community though some might differ on what defines a community. Make no mistake about it, the RSI website is instrumental in Star Citizen's success on all fronts. I'm just saying the Japanese need the same tools if you want RSI to penetrate (hmmmm.....penetrate) the Japanese market. And lets not forget, Star Citizen isn't merely an FPS! It's a Space Sim, it's a journey through the universe, it's a place to hook up with friends and like minded space faring citizens, it's a window into the future and it also offers an FPS experience the likes of which has never been seen! So have a little faith - if you build it they will come. But first you need to build it - and a site where Japanese can actually find out about Star Citizen is laying the groundwork. 

[Gremlich]

China is a different set of problems. 

 

No thanks.

[Osclin]

Just let the thread die, he's not really interested in any sort of constructive discussion.