LTI for all

[Overlord]

I know LTI is a much talked about subject especially as it is the main cause for heating up the grey market in ship sales. But I can't help but wonder how new players will feel not being able to buy this much valued, whether real or not, product. There will no doubt be new players who feel they are getting the short end of the stick because they are not able to buy LTI in game, simply because they joined late. 

 

And what will happen when the LTI bubble bursts? You know, when people realize they spent exorbitant prices for insurance that will be relatively cheap when the game goes live. There could be a lot of unhappy space bunnies out there. Sure LTI was a gift to early supporters who took the chance on Chris Roberts, but will this altruistic support for SC continue after LTI becomes a punchline, as it already has in some circles? 

 

Personally, I like LTI. I think it's great and worth having, at least for the bigger, more expensive ships. Which leads me to my proposal: make LTI available for everyone but as a separate fee. This would have numerous benefits: the first of which is making new people feel like they are equal members of the 'community'. No longer will they be segregated as those who weren't there or late comers. Also, this would inject more money into Star Citizen while at the same time treating everyone equally. Another benefit would be to allow players the freedom to choose which insurance they want; this way they can earn their insurance for cheaper ships in game and purchase LTI for larger, more expensive ships - a great time saver! 

 

LTI could even be made as part of a monthly fee - a kind of membership fee if you will; there could be single or multiple ship LTI packages. This too would help support SC's long term viability. Sure, a few supporters will not be happy that new members will be able to purchase LTI, but they, apparently, did not buy ships with LTI to keep new people from getting LTI: they purchased ships with LTI to help get Star Citizen off the ground. And they have accomplished that mission! But keeping others from getting LTI should never be a part of that mission. At least not for a community. Besides, their LTI will still be worth something - it just won't come at the expense of new members. 

[Wu Jen]

LTI could even be made as part of a monthly fee - a kind of membership fee if you will; there could be single or multiple ship LTI packages.

So, they said that basic hull insurance would not cost us much, would be super easy to have and would be 'inconsequential'....and you want them to charge us more......

 

LTI is not needed nor wanted. Just please let it die a horrible badly thought out idea of a death.

[VoA]

So, they said that basic hull insurance would not cost us much, would be super easy to have and would be 'inconsequential'....and you want them to charge us more......

 

LTI is no needed nor wanted. Just please let it die a horrible badly thought out idea of a death.

 

+1 Agree - I think CR just talked about this recently as well.... LTI is meant to reward the early backers... but only a very "little" - "inconsequential" amount.... since Hull Insurance is suppose to be incredibly cheap for everyone.  Agree with Wu Jen - just let the subject - be a "non-consequential" subject... not worth worrying about.

[Vuduu]

Perhaps a better idea is to tack it onto the existing subscription perks. I don't think LTI will be more than a convenience in the PU, therefore adding it to the existing perks subs get will continue to bring in money post launch. No additional fees or addons, just a convenience for those who additionally support SC through subscriptions.

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[Genesis]

I defend LTI on the basis that I own LTI ships and make extraordinary profit selling these ships.

[Daishi]

+1 Agree - I think CR just talked about this recently as well.... LTI is meant to reward the early backers... but only a very "little" - "inconsequential" amount.... since Hull Insurance is suppose to be incredibly cheap for everyone.  Agree with Wu Jen - just let the subject - be a "non-consequential" subject... not worth worrying about.

 

Exactly, its the hardpoint and cargo insurance you should be worried about!

[CatoAtticus]

I don't have LTI on any ship and I am glad they did away with it. Most games I've played that relied on an economy has always had massive inflation, and I'm happy to participate in any kind of in-game money sink that I can.

[Chimaera]

LTI is only an inflated value because people have a perception that it makes something special. It was a perk only offered to Original and Veteran backers as a reward for being a part of the earliest stages of crowdfunding, as well as a special thing for limited sale ships. While it has since become this monstrosity of revenue generation for gray marketers, the actions taken by CIG to limit the ability for people to re-gift ships means that the LTI "bubble" is already beginning to burst. Eventually the supply will wane, although I expect a spike in prices for cheap LTI items like Auroras once more valuable ships are added to the cross-chassis upgrade system. Even then, it makes NO sense to negate a perk for having been a part of the original Kickstarter/RSI campaigns just because a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon later on. If that kind of thing happens, then what's the point of having early backer perks in the first place?

[swiftwilly]

Problem with mispricing of LTI is due to the misconception on how much LTI will cost.

 

CR has said it will cost very little, LTI is only a convenience. Pricing will be similar to landing fees etc. The problem is, that is all he said. To some people, this is enough. For others who postulate how much insurance might cost etc and grey markets just adds fuel to the fire that LTI will provide a significant advantage.

 

At end of the day, it comes down to how much the grey market is pricing in LTI. If it is something like $5 for example, it would be worth it. However, whilst it varies ship to ship, a Retaliator I believe was $250, grey market Retaliator is around $400. $150 is not worth it in my opinion if you go back to CR's comments that LTI will cost very little. 

 

Luckily, I work in equity markets, so mispriced stocks or mispriced LTI, everything comes down to mental strength. The weak will cave in and buy, the strong will benefit in the long term.

 

Anyone who can hold their nerve till PU without paying inflated grey market prices will benefit. You just have to sit and wait for 2 years.

[Eternity]

I know LTI is a much talked about subject especially as it is the main cause for heating up the grey market in ship sales. But I can't help but wonder how new players will feel not being able to buy this much valued, whether real or not, product. There will no doubt be new players who feel they are getting the short end of the stick because they are not able to buy LTI in game, simply because they joined late. 

 

And what will happen when the LTI bubble bursts? You know, when people realize they spent exorbitant prices for insurance that will be relatively cheap when the game goes live. There could be a lot of unhappy space bunnies out there. Sure LTI was a gift to early supporters who took the chance on Chris Roberts, but will this altruistic support for SC continue after LTI becomes a punchline, as it already has in some circles? 

 

Personally, I like LTI. I think it's great and worth having, at least for the bigger, more expensive ships. Which leads me to my proposal: make LTI available for everyone but as a separate fee. This would have numerous benefits: the first of which is making new people feel like they are equal members of the 'community'. No longer will they be segregated as those who weren't there or late comers. Also, this would inject more money into Star Citizen while at the same time treating everyone equally. Another benefit would be to allow players the freedom to choose which insurance they want; this way they can earn their insurance for cheaper ships in game and purchase LTI for larger, more expensive ships - a great time saver! 

 

LTI could even be made as part of a monthly fee - a kind of membership fee if you will; there could be single or multiple ship LTI packages. This too would help support SC's long term viability. Sure, a few supporters will not be happy that new members will be able to purchase LTI, but they, apparently, did not buy ships with LTI to keep new people from getting LTI: they purchased ships with LTI to help get Star Citizen off the ground. And they have accomplished that mission! But keeping others from getting LTI should never be a part of that mission. At least not for a community. Besides, their LTI will still be worth something - it just won't come at the expense of new members. 

being a "new player" i do not care at all about LTI and all of the goons that splurge on it.

[D_BO]

i don't think i want CIG doing anymore nickle and diming us.  the last thing we need is them charging some obnoxious premium fee to hand out LTI.  yuck

[Boildown]

This seems like a bad idea. The game isn't in desperate need of funding to go against what CR already said (the mistake of LTI in the first place) to go compound the error. The LTI problem will be solved by mitigating its usefulness in the verse, for example, post-PU ship upgrades won't be covered and will need separate insurance.

[BravoTwoZero]

LTI could even be made as part of a monthly fee - a kind of membership fee if you will

 

Congratulations, you have successfully described a concept known as "insurance". An insurance is some kind of LTI for which you have to pay a monthly fee and in return you get guarantees that certain risks like ship loss or ship damage are covered by such insurance and you don't have to pay it yourself. If you stop paying the fee however, the ship is no longer covered.

 

People are still overvaluing the worth of LTI. I didn't keep track how much times the developers stated that LTI is a "minor convenience" and "you shouldn't pay extra dollars for it on the grey market". If people get angry when they learn the true value of LTI, they should only blame themselves as the message from CIG has always been very clear about this subject.

 

Insurances are actually quite a good idea as they ensure a regular money outflow for all players, a money sink if you wish. Without it, the inflation would merely be too high and prices would keep rising continuously. Even for people with LTI it doesn't mean that they are free from all insurances, just the insurance of the ship hull. All additional equipment, upgrades and cargo will have to be ensured as well (unless you want to take the risk of course). Supposedly there could also be insurances which cover your entire fleet rather than one ship, but this hasn't been clarified by CIG and is pure speculation.

[Inkarnus]

LTI has an advantage if you have a small fleet like me :3 it just protects the investment forever .

LTI is cool if you have multiple ships yes

LTI is uncool if you have bought 1 ship that you want to keep at all times since you will pay just a small fee for hull insurance

[Nord]

As some have said before LTI is more a "status" symbol than anything else. And for lazy people like me LTI is just a perk. For example, collectors might find rare toys very valuable. Others would throw it away.

It's nothing more or less. I have started collecting LTI ships before it's too late, and I'm well aware that prices might drop but that doesn't matter much when you have your own reason and capability to buy it.

[novastorm]

Everyone who labels LTI useless obviously doesn't have an LTI Scythe =P

[swiftwilly]

Also remember people might pay up for grey market ships only because they think they won't be on sale again.

Everyone who labels LTI useless obviously doesn't have an LTI Scythe =P

For the original backers yes.

For people paying in the thousands don't realise a few things

1. Should be easy to capture one in PU. Once someone figures it out. YouTube it everyone will attempt to get one given the price. Should be a lot of enemy scythe around. It is a fighter. Not some vanduul carrier.

2. I agree captured scythe won't get insurance BUT if it becomes easy to capture it won't matter. Also the ship isn't great on paper. Would rather a hornet on Dog fight anyday. I think a lot of people will try to capture it at first. Fly around with it. Lose it. And just move on.

3. There will always be better ships. I think people get too focused on the current ships. After PU there will be plenty of awesome ships coming out.

Insurance is still very early days. I highly doubt SC will let you fly out of your hanger without a warning or some kind to let you know you don't have insurance. Given how expensive ships are there will be a lot of angry people.

I see a lot of people in this thread has already posted a number of ideas.

[Nevermore]

most ppl will upgrade their insurance anyway to cover  their ship upgrades / cargo 

unless they want to buy 100 upgrades for every upgrade slot on your ship 

and theres a huge change that you would have already sold or upgraded your ship to a new one before your insurance runs out 

 

 

it's gamers they are quite spineless when they have to give up something to make a point.. i.e the mw3  boycott and mass effect 3 boycott.....

all it takes is for one to succeed in selling a 50$ ship for 500$ and everyone else wants to do the same 

allot of the big sellers do not care about that game at all they just want some "easy money"

 

every time you get your  lti ship back with " it will be the standard "bad/midcore" equipment and you will have to buy new equipment again  unless you upgraded your insurance 

[Delota]

 

And what will happen when the LTI bubble bursts? You know, when people realize they spent exorbitant prices for insurance that will be relatively cheap when the game goes live. There could be a lot of unhappy space bunnies out there. Sure LTI was a gift to early supporters who took the chance on Chris Roberts, but will this altruistic support for SC continue after LTI becomes a punchline, as it already has in some circles? 

 

It is not that LTI is still unknown what it is, so you get what you paid for. It is the people that drived the grey market LTI price up, not CIG. I don't think CIG should respond to that and make the LTI more worth it, ie, they should not 'chase' the grey market prices and make it more like-able

[Flatfoot]

I had only just purchased my cutlass a few months back, and thus no LTI here.  At first when I was reading around about it I was pretty ticked off that I didn't have it, but shortly realized how it has sort of phased out, and as previously stated, is more of a real world money maker at this point. Congrats to everyone who has it, it'll make things slightly easier for you (or give ya a profit!) but I'm also happy I and future players won't have some massive disadvantage.

[Gallitin]

Here is a reason why you may not want LTI.

 

It was discussed that like cars these ships will evolve.  Each "year" etc... they will have new models, redesigns etc...just like a car manufacturer does.  

 

That said, with LTI you will always get the same ship even if they have released newer models.

 

With the in game insurance you purchase, the way I understand it, is that you will then receive the newest model when it's destroyed as the older models will no longer be available.

[Flatfoot]

Here is a reason why you may not want LTI.

 

It was discussed that like cars these ships will evolve.  Each "year" etc... they will have new models, redesigns etc...just like a car manufacturer does.  

 

That said, with LTI you will always get the same ship even if they have released newer models.

 

Now that is a very interesting notion.

[Monkeyfeast]

Exactly, its the hardpoint and cargo insurance you should be worried about!

 

^This.

[Inkarnus]

Everyone who labels LTI useless obviously doesn't have an LTI Scythe =P

shh dont tell em :3

 

 

Also remember people might pay up for grey market ships only because they think they won't be on sale again.

For the original backers yes.

For people paying in the thousands don't realise a few things

1. Should be easy to capture one in PU. Once someone figures it out. YouTube it everyone will attempt to get one given the price. Should be a lot of enemy scythe around. It is a fighter. Not some vanduul carrier.

2. I agree captured scythe won't get insurance BUT if it becomes easy to capture it won't matter. Also the ship isn't great on paper. Would rather a hornet on Dog fight anyday. I think a lot of people will try to capture it at first. Fly around with it. Lose it. And just move on.

3. There will always be better ships. I think people get too focused on the current ships. After PU there will be plenty of awesome ships coming out.

Insurance is still very early days. I highly doubt SC will let you fly out of your hanger without a warning or some kind to let you know you don't have insurance. Given how expensive ships are there will be a lot of angry people.

I see a lot of people in this thread has already posted a number of ideas.

yes you can capture it again and again were as the LTI owner just waits its time off

 to get its baby back no time involved to go to the blackmarkets at the fringes of space or to Vanduul territory

the other point is the Vanduul Scythe is a topgrade military  fighter like the Idris-M wich isnt really scaled down :3.

The point of the Vanduul ship is its a glass cannon wich can ram and has some impressive hardpoints / weapons

wich would be another point since you would need to get these weapons too not just the fighter and reseller will split the package

to increase the profitss .

The other thing is if you get a Blackmarket/self-capped ship that friendly UEE Retaliator with Hornet escort at the next Jumpgate

would want a word with you, since the ship isnt registered at all and clearly Vanduul wich leads mostly to *pew* *pew* Space debris

[Luetin]

Read through all this and everyones said all there is to say on the matter.

 

What I will add is that those people who repurchased second hand LTI because they believed it would be an exceptionally good deal its not a bad thing to hedge your bets, however its definitely got to be worth taking time when youre considering any sort of purchase for a system that has barely been properly defined its essentially a huge gamble. I feel semi bad for anyone who spent out large cash on a ship with LTI when now it appears that insurance is going to be a formality of an expense but on the other hand thats how things can turn out when you gamble.

 

But everyone makes their own judgements its down to the individual what they want to spend their money on. I actually believe that insurance should not be such an inconsequential expense because whilst of course the game wants to be fun playable and not miserable you also want there to be real consequences and considerations for people when engaging combat etc etc.

 

I think I will be interested to see where insurance goes and if any changes come to it negative or positive