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RSI - Phoenix (Constellation)


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The Pheonix does not come stock with C&C. Its an upgrade option that you can put on ANY Connie. I think your a bit blinded atm with it. No, offense.

 

There are multiple different elements to Command and Control - I'll go over each (though their maybe gaps or additions if you can think of some)

 

This is what the Phoenix does have for Command and Control (from the Brochure and Ben in RtV):

  • Better Displays for the Captain (by Galo&Frost with Utra Rez with efficient touch screen Displays)
  • War Room for formulating Battle Plans (without the risk of having transmissions intercepted and decrypted via telecommunication - this is a big deal in Star Citizen).
  • Theater to Display Battle Plans
  • Hidden Secret and Secure Compartments ("dampened hold") from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • "organization leadership" from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • Superior Engineering making all internal systems better than other Connies (per previous posts and on specs) - probably hardened and harder to hack than another Connie (or even most ships).
  • P72 Archimedes - for close range support or for the Admiral to escape in (better than P52 Merlin)
  • Probably a stronger hull than the other Connies "the idea of being an ‘armored car’ for high value passengers and goods" from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • Bigger Power Plant for More power to weapons, shields and other ship systems
  • Higher quality Factor Engine, Weapons and Shields
  • ^^^^^^ Yes all of this has to do with Command and Control ^^^^^  because if you can't defend or fight - and your leader dies - the is no Command ;)

 

This is what the Phoenix can "upgrade to for increased or different" Command and Control options (from the Brochure and Ben in RtV):

  • You can upgrade your "Command" options (pg2 of brochure - but we don't know the details yet) - this is probably better scanners and probably a 3d Holo Sphere like we see on the Idris that will probably project from the Ceiling.  Does the Phoenix need this to be an effective Command and Control ship?  Probably not since you have other options to increase your scanning (see 2nd item below) --- or you can rely on Hornet Trackers to feed you the longer range sensor Info.  Likewise the Theater could also function like a Holo-Sphere and this is probably more useful on other Connie Variants. -- "command and control (note the upgrade option in the brochure!)" from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • You can also swap the Class 5 upper turret for the Aquila Sensor array (hardpoint swap) - verified via Ben in RtV --- But this means better scanning at the cost of loosing firepower.
  • CIG will probably have other options for the Phoenix (remember there are many things that are not "obvious" like a stronger hull --- improve command and control - since a dead leader = no command).

 

 

@ Thank you for sharing this!

 

+1 felt like I was alone in this debate....Thanks @

 

 

A Retaliator will blow an Phoenix apart without an issue.. :)

Hype Hype Hype......we will see.

 

I am going to get a Retaliator as well but I would have to say that a Phoenix could probably take out a "Civilian" Retaliator in a 1v1.   (remember we only have access to Military Tali's in S42) ((our ships in the PU will be "Civilain" Tali's))

  • Phoenix has a larger power plant
  • Newer and higher tech equipment (RSI uses higher quality parts than Aegis does - and the Retaliator is an aging design)
  • Phoenix has Class 3 Maneuvering Thrusters vs the Retaliator at Class 2 (this is huge in a 1v1)
  • Phoenix has a Class 9 Defense system designed to shoot down Missiles and Torpedos
  • Phoenix probably has a tougher hull and faster regening shields
  • Tali has a Max Crew of 8 vs 4 on the Phoenix (so probably more reliance on more NPCs)

Even though the Phoenix would beat the "Civilian" Retaliator in a 1v1 there are some advantages that the Retaliator has in Captial Ship fights

  • It is not as maneuverable but the Tali packs a bigger punch with torpedos (though these are nerfed from "military" Tali)
  • Tali is missing a lot of specs and they are figuring how much to nerf it from the "military" Tali
  • Its clear the Tali will be the better Captial ship Killer but he Phoenix will take out a Tali and anything smaller than a Idris (in a 1v1).

=================

 

While this is ^^^^^Likely^^^^^^ to be the case "no one knows for sure" yet on anything with Star Citizen (not even the Devs) since it is still in development.... per the Dev Quote above:

 

"Finally, I do have to warn you: the stats will change again. And again and again. If you’ve ‘ran the stats’ and determined that a ship is too good to be true… it probably is. Between now and the time we launch, every single ship will undergo likely dozens of balancing changes. Some of them will make the ship “better,” and some of them “worse” in your eyes, but all of them will be necessary to make Star Citizen a fun, balanced and working game. " via @Sahale

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Want more? Every Constellation is prefitted for an expansion station — you can choose and purchase from our upcoming range of options, including command, exploration and entertainment.

 

I'm betting that for $125 in UEE you will be able to upgrade a straight Andromedia to just as good or better C&C ship.

 

You listed the smuggling area as C&C? Care to explain the thought process on that?

You also listed multiple dev quotes from a starbase member? Not the actual quotes?

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There are multiple different elements to Command and Control - I'll go over each (though their maybe gaps or additions if you can think of some)

 

This is what the Phoenix does have for Command and Control (from the Brochure and Ben in RtV):

  • Better Displays for the Captain (by Galo&Frost with Utra Rez with efficient touch screen Displays)
  • War Room for formulating Battle Plans (without the risk of having transmissions intercepted and decrypted via telecommunication - this is a big deal in Star Citizen).
  • Theater to Display Battle Plans
  • Hidden Secret and Secure Compartments ("dampened hold") from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • "organization leadership" from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • Superior Engineering making all internal systems better than other Connies (per previous posts and on specs)
  • P72 Archimedes - for close range support or for the Admiral to escape in (better than P52 Merlin)
  • Probably a stronger hull than the other Connies "the idea of being an ‘armored car’ for high value passengers and goods" from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • Bigger Power Plant for More power to weapons, shields and other ship systems
  • Higher quality Factor Engine, Weapons and Shields
  • ^^^^^^ Yes all of this has to do with Command and Control ^^^^^  because if you can't defend or fight - and your leader dies - the is no Command ;)

 

This is what the Phoenix can "upgrade to for increased or different" Command and Control options (from the Brochure and Ben in RtV):

  • You can upgrade your "Command" options (pg2 of brochure - but we don't know the details yet) - this is probably better scanners and probably a 3d Holo Sphere like we see on the Idris that will probably project from the Ceiling.  Does the Phoenix need this to be an effective Command and Control ship?  Probably not since you have other options to increase your scanning (see 2nd item below) --- or you can rely on Hornet Trackers to feed you the longer range sensor Info.  Likewise the Theater could also function like a Holo-Sphere and this is probably more useful on other Connie Variants. -- "command and control (note the upgrade option in the brochure!)" from Dev quote via @Sahale
  • You can also swap the Class 5 upper turret for the Aquila Sensor array (hardpoint swap) - verified via Ben in RtV --- But this means better scanning at the cost of loosing firepower.
  • CIG will probably have other options for the Phoenix (remember there are many things that are not "obvious" like a stronger hull --- improve command and control - since a dead leader = no command).

 

 

 

+1 felt like I was alone in this debate....Thanks @

 

 

 

I am going to get a Retaliator as well but I would have to say that a Phoenix could probably take out a "Civilian" Retaliator in a 1v1. 

  • Phoenix has a larger power plant
  • Newer and higher tech equipment (RSI uses higher quality parts than Aegis does - and the Retaliator is an aging design)
  • Phoenix has Class 3 Maneuvering Thrusters vs the Retaliator at Class 2 (this is huge in a 1v1)
  • Phoenix has a Class 9 Defense system designed to shoot down Missiles and Torpedos
  • Phoenix probably has a tougher hull and faster regening shields
  • Tali has a Max Crew of 8 vs 4 on the Phoenix (so probably more reliance on more NPCs)

Even though the Phoenix would beat the "Civilian" Retaliator in a 1v1 there are some advantages that the Retaliator has in Captial Ship fights

  • It is not as maneuverable but the Tali packs a bigger punch with torpedos (though these are nerfed from "military" Tali)
  • Tali is missing a lot of specs and they are figuring how much to nerf it from the "military" Tali
  • Its clear the Tali will be the better Captial ship Killer but he Phoenix will take out a Tali and anything smaller than a Idris (in a 1v1).

 

 

 

But you realize that Ben is the equivalent of a car salesman and the Brochure ist meant to SELL ships.

Loads of fluff. Lots of probablys.

If you read Bens text with care:  There will be never be something like the "best ship". Stats will change.

To have an AMS is a perk if you are under fire, but it doesnt make you invincible.

And believe me: Tank flattens armored car.

Don`t misunderstand me: I don`t think that the Phoenix is a bad ship.

But I think you overestimate it.

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Some clarification from Ben regarding the phoenix.

 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3157196/#Comment_3157196

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Posted: 4:40PM
 
Developer.png
icon-backer.png
org-redacted.png
 
Posted: 4:40PM
 
Hey guys,

The stats in the brochure are correct and have been correct since the ship launch. What happened is that the brochure came in and the stats on the website weren’t corrected from the (much older) version we’d used to mock up the layout. If you were confused by the different sets of stats, I am absolutely sorry. The web team caught the error yesterday and fixed it, but having the older version posted for so long is absolutely not how we would like this to work.

For everyone curious: the brochure specs reflect our current vision for the Phoenix, even when parts included there are not yet visible on the model (like the additional turret.) Missing parts in-game will be corrected in a future patch. The stats on the website have been updated to match the brochure (hopefully! Please post if you see any further disparity.)

If you applied a Constellation Phoenix upgrade between Friday and Sunday based on the incorrect stats listed on the website, CS is authorized to remove the upgrade and apply the cost to your account as store credit. You can submit a ticket through the normal process; please be aware that it may be several days to get through the existing queue and make these changes to your account. Personally I would advise against that, because it’s going to be an extremely cool ship, and will be one of the harder models to come by… but we want to make it absolutely clear that we didn’t put up fake stats to try and trick anyone into upgrading.

Why is it worth the pledge money? In addition to the more limited number created by RSI in a given model year, the ship uses top-of-the-line components wherever possible instead of the standard mass produced equipment seen on the other models. That’s the one thing we really wanted to get across in the new specs: every component should be better. It’s also currently the only way to get the (shaping up to be extremely cool) Archimedes snub fighter and the Lynx buggy.

If you’re interested in the broader role of the Phoenix, our thinking is that it’s more than just a decoration you can brag about (though it is that!) Between high class smuggling with the dampened hold, organization leadership, command and control (note the upgrade option in the brochure!) and the idea of being an ‘armored car’ for high value passengers and goods (think metal briefcase-handcuffed-to-James-Bond rather than bulk containers of flatcat furs.)

No Star Citizen ship is ever intended to be the ‘best one.’ Being the most expensive ship in a set of variants isn’t even intended to mean it’s the best of a group. It reflects the fact that it’s more limited in our universe and the fact that it contains more valuable (in terms of our economy system) components.

Finally, I do have to warn you: the stats will change again. And again and again. If you’ve ‘ran the stats’ and determined that a ship is too good to be true… it probably is. Between now and the time we launch, every single ship will undergo likely dozens of balancing changes. Some of them will make the ship “better,” and some of them “worse” in your eyes, but all of them will be necessary to make Star Citizen a fun, balanced and working game.
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Want more? Every Constellation is prefitted for an expansion station — you can choose and purchase from our upcoming range of options, including command, exploration and entertainment.

 

I'm betting that for $125 in UEE you will be able to upgrade a straight Andromedia to just as good or better C&C ship.

 

You listed the smuggling area as C&C? Care to explain the thought process on that?

You also listed multiple dev quotes from a starbase member? Not the actual quotes?

 

  • The fact that "every" Connie is "prefitted for an expansion station" doesn't lessen the Phoenix superior use in a Command and Control Position (because it has far more Command and Control Assets that the other Connies don't have) - already listed in previous post.
  • You say that an Andromeda can be outfitted equally as good for a C&C role to a Phoenix and I'd point out that there are too many Hull Differences (Stronger Hull - More Advanced and Hardened Systems that can't be Hacked as Easily - see above for more) + The other Connies may in the future have the option to be outfitted with a War Room for Command and Control (Conference Table / Theater) ----- but I highly doubt that would be anytime soon (maybe a few years into the PU but even then the demand won't be there -they'll just buy the Phoenix).
  • The Smuggling Area can be used to hide documents (computer storage chips) from would be raiders (and if big enough hide VIP's - like Han Solo hiding Luke and the Princess in the Millennium Falcon in Star Wars).
  • The actual quotes where already posted His posted thread just a few posts above mine - and where actually duplicated again by @l2k just above this post.  The direct link to Ben's Post is Here

 

But you realize that Ben is the equivalent of a car salesman and the Brochure ist meant to SELL ships.

Loads of fluff. Lots of probablys.

If you read Bens text with care:  There will be never be something like the "best ship". Stats will change.

To have an AMS is a perk if you are under fire, but it doesnt make you invincible.

And believe me: Tank flattens armored car.

Don`t misunderstand me: I don`t think that the Phoenix is a bad ship.

But I think you overestimate it.

 

And I think many are completely looking over its assets (especially for Command and Control) and its superior (higher end) products / plating / weapons / factory engine / etc....  I am just comparing it to other Connies (I have all 4 and will keep all 4 since they each have their own advantages) - but the Phoenix Advantage is Command and Control and Luxury Touring (and being the best ship to ship fighter of the lot).  Will the Phoenix be a better Hauler than the Taurus (no).  Will the Phoenix be a better Explorer than the Aquila (no).  Will it be a better Multi-Purpose ship than the Andromeda (no - because it doesn't have the Cargo capacity).....  But it is a Better fighter for sure.   Like I mentioned above.  The Other Connies are like Volkswagens and the Phoenix is like an Audi (same manufacturer but definitely not the same car - the Audi is superior in many ways just like the Phoenix).

 

++++

 

Here is a Post from Reddit ------- I too am an Architect / Interior Designer + an Aerospace Engineer (I agree with most of this commentary below....

 

My impression of the Constellation Phoenix interior as an Architect / Interior Designer

This is a topic I started in general chat that I thought I should share here:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3156520#Comment_3156520

Its my opinion on the Phoenix's interior. If u dont want to follow the link here it is:

First things first: I am a professional Architect and an Interior Design Consultant but that by no means makes my opinion superior or right or even wrong, but at least, it must count for something given the subject matter and context of this post. Now that that is out of the way, the matter at hand:

With the current forum melt-down about the Phoenix interior and more recently, its stats (I wont even go there), Ive been hesitant to apply the upgrade to my Rear admiral Package. I finally bit the bullet and applied it to have a look at what all the fuss was about. I had seen the screen shots but I needed to be in the space to have any sort of tangible assessment.

As with all things design, interiors are largely a matter of taste but there are certain universal laws of design and good taste cuts across all tastes and opinion and I think they actually did a good job! Here are my points:

Commendations: - The general mood and ambience of the space is spot on. It has a clinical but opulent, retro but sci-fi feel to it. Visual contrast like that are hard to pull off.

  • I like the minimalistic color scheme: the polished wood and chrome accents goes well with the white but maybe the chrome is a bit too much.

  • The lighting scheme is expected for this style and it adds to the experience but maybe some areas can be visually defined by a slightly different color, not just stark fluorescent white everywhere. This will greatly improve the ambience.

  • I am pretty sure the whole set-up is not finished yet because I can see the thought process behind certain details that make me go: " Ah, I see what you are trying to do here." but its not finished. I'm sure the next pass will be better.

Criticisms: The major issue for me is the layout. Generally, the layout is fine but whoever designed the interior seems to be labouring under the impression that everything HAS to be symmetrical. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SYMMETRICAL. Sorry but I had to shout. In fact, asymmetrical designs are actually more interesting than symmetric ones.

  • This is the source of most of the issues with the design: the slightly cluttered feel will be solved by an asymmetrical arrangement. For instance, there is no need for the bar to be on the opposite side, it could be integrated with the kitchenette and made slightly longer and that free space left open as circulation space.

  • I quite like the hot tub but the placement of the bed and shower is simply unforgivable. No privacy whatsoever and you have to pass by the bed to access the generator room and snub fighter. Simply unacceptable. Again, trying to adhere to a symmetrical design is the cause of this flaw: eliminate one of the pathways so there will be enough space to actually wrap the partition behind the bed to close off that corner. Viola! You have a private bedroom with a shower.

  • And for the love of all that is good, remove those God-awful paintings and their garish frames! They stick out like a sore thumb ;-)

All in all, I am really happy with the Phoenix interior. It might not be to the taste of some folks but I like the direction they went with it, all it needs is a few tweaks here and there.

That is my 2UEC.

 

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VoA nowhere in that post did Ben say it would be 'better' or even good at C&C he mentioned, from the brochure, that you could purchase an upgrade, as I stated above to make it have C&C funtionality.

 

I really think your wrong on this one. It will be no better at C&C than the base Andromeda. Most starting equipment on ships will be a level 1 - 3 out of a base 10 system. I don't think that anyone is going to keep base equipment in ships very long.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this point and wait to see what it looks like in the end.

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Well I think I caught up with all the news so I will be keeping my Phoenix since it got confirmed that the brochure was right. Was a bit concerning yesterday looking at the website.

 

I hope they can let us change the interior..i mean, each to their own, I am sure people will like it but if SC sticks with its space sim stitching, I'll make it more combat looking :) 

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Well I think I caught up with all the news so I will be keeping my Phoenix since it got confirmed that the brochure was right. Was a bit concerning yesterday looking at the website.

 

I hope they can let us change the interior..i mean, each to their own, I am sure people will like it but if SC sticks with its space sim stitching, I'll make it more combat looking :)

Agreed, keeping mine as well after VoA's information today, I think the masses that are angry on RSI probably didn't realize all the rest of the goodies that come along with it.

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  • The fact that "every" Connie is "prefitted for an expansion station" doesn't lessen the Phoenix superior use in a Command and Control Position (because it has far more Command and Control Assets that the other Connies don't have) - already listed in previous post.
  • You say that an Andromeda can be outfitted equally as good for a C&C role to a Phoenix and I'd point out that there are too many Hull Differences (Stronger Hull - More Advanced and Hardened Systems that can't be Hacked as Easily - see above for more) + The other Connies may in the future have the option to be outfitted with a War Room for Command and Control (Conference Table / Theater) ----- but I highly doubt that would be anytime soon (maybe a few years into the PU but even then the demand won't be there -they'll just buy the Phoenix).
  • The Smuggling Area can be used to hide documents (computer storage chips) from would be raiders (and if big enough hide VIP's - like Han Solo hiding Luke and the Princess in the Millennium Falcon in Star Wars).
  • The actual quotes where already posted His posted thread just a few posts above mine - and where actually duplicated again by @l2k just above this post.  The direct link to Ben's Post is Here

 

 

And I think many are completely looking over its assets (especially for Command and Control) and its superior (higher end) products / plating / weapons / factory engine / etc....  I am just comparing it to other Connies (I have all 4 and will keep all 4 since they each have their own advantages) - but the Phoenix Advantage is Command and Control and Luxury Touring (and being the best ship to ship fighter of the lot).  Will the Phoenix be a better Hauler than the Taurus (no).  Will the Phoenix be a better Explorer than the Aquila (no).  Will it be a better Multi-Purpose ship than the Andromeda (no - because it doesn't have the Cargo capacity).....  But it is a Better fighter for sure.   Like I mentioned above.  The Other Connies are like Volkswagens and the Phoenix is like an Audi (same manufacturer but definitely not the same car - the Audi is superior in many ways just like the Phoenix).

 

++++

 

Here is a Post from Reddit ------- I too am an Architect / Interior Designer + an Aerospace Engineer (I agree with most of this commentary below....

 

I agree with everything you say EXCEPT....I would say it's more of a Toyota/Lexus than Volkwagon/Audi.  I don't want to draw comparisons to "Made in Mexico" things.  LOL

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The tools to make audis are still made in germany, so is the design concept.

I doubt a china made audi has less quality then a german made.

 

coming on topic,

while i do not like the interior to much, the overall shipstats presented in the brochure are actually not to bad for the Phoenix.

While i would not use it for bulk cargo runs, its perfectly fine for a gunrunner type cargohaul from Xi'an space to imperium HQ :D

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The tools to make audis are still made in germany, so is the design concept.

I doubt a china made audi has less quality then a german made.

 

coming on topic,

while i do not like the interior to much, the overall shipstats presented in the brochure are actually not to bad for the Phoenix.

While i would not use it for bulk cargo runs, its perfectly fine for a gunrunner type cargohaul from Xi'an space to imperium HQ :D

By this logic, hiring a overpriced designer to design a house, only then to go to the Home Depot and have it built by Mexicans, is not a sound product.  I'm not saying the Mexicans will do a bad job...I"m just not saying it's up to par with the design.  Such is the sad story of German cars.

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VoA nowhere in that post did Ben say it would be 'better' or even good at C&C he mentioned, from the brochure, that you could purchase an upgrade, as I stated above to make it have C&C funtionality.

 

I really think your wrong on this one. It will be no better at C&C than the base Andromeda. Most starting equipment on ships will be a level 1 - 3 out of a base 10 system. I don't think that anyone is going to keep base equipment in ships very long.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this point and wait to see what it looks like in the end.

 

It's a good debate ... but I want you to see it for what it is.... there are logical conclusions to everything in this debate... that generate facts that can be compared... and dissected ... and studied - even though the game continues to be in flux.

 

Ben "Did" say its better.... - you are going to say - "wait a second no where did he say 'anything' is better than 'anything' else".... and I will reiterate - and say "Yes he did" - but "implicitly."   You have to understand that he is skirting around that issue while being "diplomatic" and trying not to upset people (I am sure you can see that).

 

So.... how do I "know" this as "fact" when comparing lets say the Phoenix to the Andromeda.  Let's review the facts (and what we know) - to draw the conclusions:

  • We know that the Andromeda is an Older Base Model ship (and always it intent was intended to be a Multi-Purpose Ship - not specializing in any one Mission type).
  • We know that the Phoenix is a "High End" ... Limited Edition model. 
From the Brochure:  Constellation Phoenix is More than a Luxury Ship.  The Phoenix is a vision of Superior Engineering for the Modern Age - maintaining the functionality of all other Constellations, but Optimized for those who refuse to accept anything less than perfection.

 

  • We know that the Phoenix is designed as a Command and Control ship per the first paragraph on the 2nd page of the brochure (and this has been mentioned all over other forums and by Ben).  The conference table and theater isn't just for luxury but for practical purposes (like a War Room / Trade Negotiations Room / Diplomacy Room / etc...).  So if we "know" this is the intent... and "we know" it has superior engineering ... then by default it is a better Command and Control ship than any other Connie.  If you don't accept this as default - let's look at the specs comparing the two.  EVERY section where the Phoenix Differs from the Andromeda means that is its "better" than the Andromeda in that Area (""because""" it uses higher end --- superior engineered --- products).  The only exception to this is that the Andromeda can carry more Cargo (not important in C&C or Battle)... and has more missiles.

Below are all the Areas where we know as fact that the Phoenix is "Better" than the Andromeda --- per the above logic and statements. --- Just from the Stat Page (not including all the other the special goodies that the Phoenix has that I mentioned in previous post) === these are just from the Stat Page: - yes I know I am using "Better" a lot in the following - but it is driving the point home.

  1. "Better" Max Crew (only 4 instead of 5) though I personally think they should increase this back up to 5 for the Phoenix
  2. "Better" Max Power Plant Size (7 vs 6)
  3. "Better" Factory Engine
  4. "Better" Shield (same shield strength but different "higher end" manufacturer probably means faster shield regen)
  5. "Better" Class-2 Weapons
  6. "Better" missiles (not as many as the Andromeda - but the Phoenix has more S2 missiles)
  7. "Better" Class-5 Weapons
  8. "Better" Class-9 Weapon (vs none)
  9. "Better" Snub Fighter
  10. "Better" Land Vehicle (vs none)
  11. "Better" Hull (per Ben's comments today on RSI Forums - quoted in previous post)
  12. "Better" additional other stuff... all listed in previous posts.

So how does the Andromeda Compare to the Phoenix.... well it carries more cargo and it is cheaper :P

 

I don't want to "slam" the Andromeda (most know I have all 4 Connie types and will use them all)... but it is really like the real live comparisons............. per Dirty Hobo quote...

 

I agree with everything you say EXCEPT....I would say it's more of a Toyota/Lexus than Volkwagon/Audi.  I don't want to draw comparisons to "Made in Mexico" things.  LOL

 

 

You make the point that you can just "upgrade" everything on the Andromeda to eventually get it up to the level of the Phoenix... but there are many things you can't change (like the Hull, Internal Systems, War Room, P72 Archimedes, etc...)... and the same "car analogy" applies...

 

You can make a Volkswagen with "some" Audi parts.... but it is still a Volkswagen :P

++++

Don't take any of this personally - I just "love" :wub:  debates is all (most know this)...

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I'm going to grab a Phoenix upgrade but hold onto it until I see what happens. I'm likely not going to end up doing anything hardcore because of job/time restraints (so any variant will be useful to me), but I will be tempted to grab the Aquila (LOVE that view from the nose) instead if I can't remove the Phoenix's fancy stuff for cargo runs.

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@VoA If you read every sales brochure like everything in it is true you'll end up buying a Fiesta one day and believing it will handle like a Ferrari.

You say that everything is speculation yet you keep on promoting your own ideas as if they were fact because it's logical (in your head).

 

I for one think C&C in Star Citizen will be more like this:

hornet_cic.jpg

 

Bsg-cic-2.jpg

 

And what the Phoenix has is this:

luxury-home-cinema-5-home-cinema-interio

 

portable_spas.jpg

 

But sure it has a table too so logically that can be used to put food on it and food has to come form somewhere even if you haven't brought enough with you so OH MY GOD YOU CAN BE A SPACE PIZZA DELIVERY GUY IN YOUR M50! I am SO going to be a pizza delivery guy! I know it's possible because it's only logical since there's food (why else have a kitchen in the Phoenix?) and there's a table, and all those people watching movi....ehm...planning war or being diplomatic around the table need to be able to order in because who has time to cook when you're sitting in the jacuz...ehm...around the table ordering troops?!! YAY LOGIC!

 

Again not to be a dick and you could end up being completely right, but a lot of folks might end up being disappointed if they think you're putting down facts here and fork out the considerable cash for a phoenix only to find out in the PU that it's just a home theater setup, especially when you say "Ben said this" and then later say "Well Ben didn't say this but he implied it if you read it like i read it".

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I have to say with all these discussions, like the Phoenix for the Phoenix, but who cares how limited these are.

 

Just because you slap the word limited on a ship doesn't mean the value of it somehow increases nor does it mean future value of it increases. 

 

Get over it please...

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Phoenix vid by AnythingFPS

Looks better and polished then what we have on hangar.

 

I am a big fan of his videos :) 

 

I think it is clear from Ben's post that CIG's intention is for the Phoenix to have "top of the line" components and "every component should be better".

 

As has been iterated many times, disregard stats as they remain in flux but CIG's intentions should be critical. 

 

I will just re-link it for convenience despite it being posted several times earlier in this thread.

 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3157196/#Comment_3157196

 

"Why is it worth the pledge money? In addition to the more limited number created by RSI in a given model year, the ship uses top-of-the-line components wherever possible instead of the standard mass produced equipment seen on the other models. That’s the one thing we really wanted to get across in the new specs: every component should be better. It’s also currently the only way to get the (shaping up to be extremely cool) Archimedes snub fighter and the Lynx buggy."

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@VoA If you read every sales brochure like everything in it is true you'll end up buying a Fiesta one day and believing it will handle like a Ferrari.

You say that everything is speculation yet you keep on promoting your own ideas as if they were fact because it's logical (in your head).

 

I for one think C&C in Star Citizen will be more like this:

hornet_cic.jpg

 

Bsg-cic-2.jpg

 

And what the Phoenix has is this:

luxury-home-cinema-5-home-cinema-interio

 

portable_spas.jpg

 

But sure it has a table too so logically that can be used to put food on it and food has to come form somewhere even if you haven't brought enough with you so OH MY GOD YOU CAN BE A SPACE PIZZA DELIVERY GUY IN YOUR M50! I am SO going to be a pizza delivery guy! I know it's possible because it's only logical since there's food (why else have a kitchen in the Phoenix?) and there's a table, and all those people watching movi....ehm...planning war or being diplomatic around the table need to be able to order in because who has time to cook when you're sitting in the jacuz...ehm...around the table ordering troops?!! YAY LOGIC!

 

Again not to be a dick and you could end up being completely right, but a lot of folks might end up being disappointed if they think you're putting down facts here and fork out the considerable cash for a phoenix only to find out in the PU that it's just a home theater setup, especially when you say "Ben said this" and then later say "Well Ben didn't say this but he implied it if you read it like i read it".

I have to agree.

 

"Better" is very strechable. I´m sure there are the best living anmeties that can be(at least till Jump Comes out) and it is nice to have the best Mahagoni-Table that money can buy, but this doesn`t make it a better C&C-Ship...it makes it only more comfortable.

We dont know anything about weapons; "better" could translate into flashier. We dont know how a headlight factores into the damage profile...we know nearly nothing.

 

All we have is fluff, stats that are subject to change and a beautiful ship.

 

Can`t blame anyone who falls in love with it, but there is no Non Plus Ultra in it.

 Again, if you like the looks or the concept pledge for it by all  means.

 

But don`t project to much into it....ist a armed luxury craft, not a Deathstar.

 

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@VoA If you read every sales brochure like everything in it is true you'll end up buying a Fiesta one day and believing it will handle like a Ferrari.

You say that everything is speculation yet you keep on promoting your own ideas as if they were fact because it's logical (in your head).

 

I for one think C&C in Star Citizen will be more like this:

hornet_cic.jpg

 

Bsg-cic-2.jpg

 

And what the Phoenix has is this:

luxury-home-cinema-5-home-cinema-interio

 

portable_spas.jpg

 

But sure it has a table too so logically that can be used to put food on it and food has to come form somewhere even if you haven't brought enough with you so OH MY GOD YOU CAN BE A SPACE PIZZA DELIVERY GUY IN YOUR M50! I am SO going to be a pizza delivery guy! I know it's possible because it's only logical since there's food (why else have a kitchen in the Phoenix?) and there's a table, and all those people watching movi....ehm...planning war or being diplomatic around the table need to be able to order in because who has time to cook when you're sitting in the jacuz...ehm...around the table ordering troops?!! YAY LOGIC!

 

Again not to be a dick and you could end up being completely right, but a lot of folks might end up being disappointed if they think you're putting down facts here and fork out the considerable cash for a phoenix only to find out in the PU that it's just a home theater setup, especially when you say "Ben said this" and then later say "Well Ben didn't say this but he implied it if you read it like i read it".

^^^^ Good Post but you are living in the 90's (with those outdated C&C pics) and blinded by cynicism :cripes:  just to splash a headline or laugh... === use logic please.  Can a Conference Table and Home theater be used for a War Room === YES (its obvious) :viggo:   ++ Read @xyphon post -->

 

 

I don't think the Phoenix currently has a C&C module or capability, but I do think it cna be expanded or have one added in, which would most likely be over the boardroom table or in the bridge somewhere

+1 :thumb:  ... Yes the C&C module or capability that they are referring to in the Brochure is an "Additive" C&C function to what the Phoenix already has (the War Room and other C&C items listed in this thread).

 

 

I have to say with all these discussions, like the Phoenix for the Phoenix, but who cares how limited these are.

 

Just because you slap the word limited on a ship doesn't mean the value of it somehow increases nor does it mean future value of it increases. 

 

Get over it please...

 

 ^^^ Yes ... "Limited" is a real world too (that also applies to Star Citizen) - to increase the value and re-sale price of an item (look at the Scythe and Idris - Value and Re-sale as an example).  There is no need to "get over it' because if you do... you are blinding yourself to a reality.

 

 

I have to agree.

 

"Better" is very stretchable...

We dont know anything about weapons; "better" could translate into flashier. We dont know how a headlight factores into the damage profile...we know nearly nothing.

^^^ Alright how about replacing "Better" with ... "Superior Engineering"  per the Brochure (and per CIG's stated intent elsewhere via Ben's recent statement on the forums -- see @xyphon post on this thread.

 

Wait a second...... doesn't "Superior Engineering"  = "Better" :viggo:  

 

 

I am a big fan of his videos :)

 

I think it is clear from Ben's post that CIG's intention is for the Phoenix to have "top of the line" components and "every component should be better".

 

As has been iterated many times, disregard stats as they remain in flux but CIG's intentions should be critical. 

 

I will just re-link it for convenience despite it being posted several times earlier in this thread.

 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3157196/#Comment_3157196

 

"Why is it worth the pledge money? In addition to the more limited number created by RSI in a given model year, the ship uses top-of-the-line components wherever possible instead of the standard mass produced equipment seen on the other models. That’s the one thing we really wanted to get across in the new specs: every component should be better. It’s also currently the only way to get the (shaping up to be extremely cool) Archimedes snub fighter and the Lynx buggy."

 +1 @xyphon :thumb:

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"Better" missiles (not as many as the Andromeda - but the Phoenix has more S2 missiles)

"Better" Class-5 Weapons

On the brochure, the Class 3 hardpoints of Phoenix are listed as 4 x Size 1, while the equipment stated to be Class 2. Still waiting for clarification.

 

un...and the Class-5 AS-74 Needle...I'm not entirely sure it should be directly compared to CF-337 Rhino.

Needle sounds more like a defensive weaponry: Fast firing to make a smoke screen. Useful to secure the escape route up front.

Rhino - Offensive weaponry - we came with a punch.

 

imho, Andromeda will be "better" for trying to take down other fighters, while Phoenix will be "better" for protecting its occupants (mostly VIPs) life. 

 

Phoenix's AS-74 Needle + Class 9 CIWS + significant amount of missiles feels more defensive than offensive.

 

The rover (buggy per Ben) and the P-72 "might" be purely for luxury.  

I would say Ursa > Lynx in term of offensive power. As their name implied, Ursa came with offensive weaponry (fluffy bear claws maybe), while Lynx is like a super car.

 

P-72 v P-52...nah...no stat nor baseline to compare whatsoever. 

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VoA your still missing the point that was made ages ago. The base equipment that comes with your ship will be crap. You will want to replace it and upgrade it ASAP.

 

No matter how much the brochure leads you to believe that you would never need anything more and that its 'top of the line' sadly that won't be the case.

 

If the starting equipment for the Pheonix is level 4 gear and the stock Andromeda is level 2 gear and the range of gear goes to 10.

 

It's still going to be crap.

 

Will it be okay to have it to fall back on? Yes.

 

Will it matter long term? Not $125 or 125,000 UEE worth. For that price you could pick up a Hornet to fly your wing and be better off.

 

You listed that the Andromeda is 'older' hate to burst your bubble but its the same year model as the Pheonix, 2945.

 

It is our honor to open the Hangar doors to RSI’s 2945 lineup of variants for the Constellation starting today! The four types are outlined below, each with their own brochure. All Constellation types are available live in your Hangar starting today. We are also premiering the long-anticipated Constellation commercial, which features the Constellation Aquila explorer in action as it discovers an alien world!

Discover them all below!

 

Again, I think your blinded on this but its your $$. I personaly have 4 Pheonix upgrades stored but I'm not going to apply any of them unless, nearing PU lanch, I see that the Pheonix is clearly better than the Andromeda.

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The base equipment that comes with your ship will be crap. 

 

 

@Wu Jen, that is simply not true. See below. Are you trying to be inflammatory or did you not read Ben Lesnick's post? You and @VoA clearly do not agree (and VoA does seem to view the Phoenix stats through a very favorable filter,) however, it is clear that the Phoenix's parts will not be "crap." And while it might it be "better" to have a Hornet on your wing in some situations, that is what your squad mates are for. Either way, you should read Ben's post if you have not--and if you already have, then your post seems pretty flamey...

 

 

 

I will just re-link it for convenience despite it being posted several times earlier in this thread.

 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3157196/#Comment_3157196

 

"Why is it worth the pledge money? In addition to the more limited number created by RSI in a given model year, the ship uses top-of-the-line components wherever possible instead of the standard mass produced equipment seen on the other models. That’s the one thing we really wanted to get across in the new specs: every component should be better. It’s also currently the only way to get the (shaping up to be extremely cool) Archimedes snub fighter and the Lynx buggy."

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