RSI - Phoenix (Constellation)

[VoA]

see link to post.

[Gallitin]

Apparently an error was made with some of the new Connie stats - the Phoenix has just been updated and it's 4x TR7's have now been replaced with 4x TR5's (max).

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/166723/constellation-phoenix-engine-confirmation-please/p5

Just caught this as well, I see no reason to keep the Phoenix at this point it's all fluff.  My base connie had more middle hard points, cargo space.  I don't see how the larger power plant and class 9 hardpoint are worth the tradeoff alone.

[Kagdama]

Agreed! I do feel sorry for some of the people on the forums though. My approach with ship purchases is: buy the "feel" of the ship. Don't buy one for a single stat, but buy it because of what it's purpose will be and the general idea behind it. All stats can change, but very rarely has the entire purpose of a ship changed.

 

++ This.  If 1 stat changes on any given ship you have purchased and that makes you regret buying it, you shouldn't have bought it in the first place IMO.

[VoA]

Just caught this as well, I see no reason to keep the Phoenix at this point it's all fluff.  My base connie had more middle hard points, cargo space.  I don't see how the larger power plant and class 9 hardpoint are worth the tradeoff alone.

 

CIG may listen and may increase the Phoenix (only up to TR6's) ------ so don't "Melt" or trade a "limited edition" ship for one that you can have at any time (you'll regret it when the stats change again - and they will).  There is always this outcry of OMG my ship got nerfed when balances take place but that doesn't mean it won't swing the other way.  They nerf hype is overblown (here is an article -while good article - plays on this hype to sell itself)  and the Phoenix is still my favorite Connie for the following reasons:

• It's a Limited Edition ship (so you won't be able to go back to it again if stats change again --- and they probably will a dozen or times or more before launch).
• There is no other ship that will hold its value more and if needed be able to sell for a very high profit later on .... than the Phoenix - other than the Scythe and Idris.
• My guess is that there will be enough uproar about the Phoenix now to change it back to a TR6 main thruster (but TR7 was way overkill).  I still think the Phoenix still outshines the other Connies (even though I have all 4) if the main Thruster Remains a TR5.  With all Connies except the Taurus at TR6's or TR7's it made the Connie way too powerful vs the Freelancer and Retaliator).
• It is the best Command and Control Ship in the CIG line up of ships to date besides the Idris (only other dedicated command and control ship besides these two is the Hornet Tracker).  It also has the most high tech command displays for the captain and it has a War Room (though not as big as the Idris).
• The War Room can also function as a Trade Room like on the Banu MM or a Diplomacy Room for negotiating with Other Orgs or Alien Races.
• The War Room can also function as a Mission Room for Squadron Meetings (for Fleet Command to organize the Fleet) --- >>> Remember there is a lot of "physical point to point exchange of data and people in Star Citizen - because the UEE monitors everything and Pirates can pick up and decrypt transmissions -- that is why Info Running is need in Star Citizen and why you need to have a "physical meeting spot" (and not just telecommute for import stuff).
• The War Room can also function for VIP parties and VIP shuttling missions which will be extremely profitable considering that they will be a prime target for people wanting to ambush them (for ransom).  You need the Luxury and The Firepower to successfully run a VIP Shuttling mission.
• This better display technology probably translates to other items not necessarily indicated yet on the Brochure (since it become minutia details ) like better Avionic, CPU, Piping, etc... all the inner guts of the Phoenix are probably also top of the line.
• Phoenix has a point defense system Class 9 - that is designed to shoot down missiles (Ben confirmed this) (THIS IS HUGE)
• P72 Archimedes is suppose to be  a lot better than the P52 Merlin
• Linx Rover vehicle
• The Phoenix also has a better Factory Engine
• Phoenix has Better Class 2 and Class 5 Weapons than any other Connie.
• And probably the Biggest thing is the Power Plant Size 7 - which all other Connies are at 6 (Freelancer at 5 and Retaliator 6) (THIS IS HUGE).  It give more power to the Shields, Energy Weapons, Thrusters, Life Support, and all other ship systems !!!

[flamadin]

++ This.  If 1 stat changes on any given ship you have purchased and that makes you regret buying it, you shouldn't have bought it in the first place IMO.

probabily you are right, but they said the magical numbers TR7 and 125$. is that fair? no, it is not. 

for the same bonus super hornet upgrade cost 55$

[Sassem]

The skylight is a actually a hidden class 7 hard point  for the rail-gun  like on the Idris M

 

Maybe a little bit over the top but what will be the use of the skylight then all those bling bling is to mislead the military of the UEE so we have a mini Idris M we only have to tweak-it a little bit

[Gallitin]

Well thanks @VoA for clearing that up, makes me feel a little better about it

[StoneJamison]

@VoA, I love how much you love the Phoenix   

[flamadin]

 

CIG may listen and may increase the Phoenix (only up to TR6's) ------ so don't "Melt" or trade a "limited edition" ship for one that you can have at any time (you'll regret it when the stats change again - and they will).  There is always this outcry of OMG my ship got nerfed when balances take place but that doesn't mean it won't swing the other way.  They nerf hype is overblown (here is an article -while good article - plays on this hype to sell itself)  and the Phoenix is still my favorite Connie for the following reasons:

• It's a Limited Edition ship (so you won't be able to go back to it again if stats change again --- and they probably will a dozen or times or more before launch).
• There is no other ship that will hold its value more and if needed be able to sell for a very high profit later on .... than the Phoenix - other than the Scythe and Idris.
• My guess is that there will be enough uproar about the Phoenix now to change it back to a TR6 main thruster (but TR7 was way overkill).  I still think the Phoenix still outshines the other Connies (even though I have all 4) if the main Thruster Remains a TR5.  With all Connies except the Taurus at TR6's or TR7's it made the Connie way too powerful vs the Freelancer and Retaliator).
• It is the best Command and Control Ship in the CIG line up of ships to date besides the Idris (only other dedicated command and control ship besides these two is the Hornet Tracker).  It also has the most high tech command displays for the captain and it has a War Room (though not as big as the Idris).
• The War Room can also function as a Trade Room like on the Banu MM or a Diplomacy Room for negotiating with Other Orgs or Alien Races.
• The War Room can also function as a Mission Room for Squadron Meetings (for Fleet Command to organize the Fleet) --- >>> Remember there is a lot of "physical point to point exchange of data and people in Star Citizen - because the UEE monitors everything and Pirates can pick up and decrypt transmissions -- that is why Info Running is need in Star Citizen and why you need to have a "physical meeting spot" (and not just telecommute for import stuff).
• The War Room can also function for VIP parties and VIP shuttling missions which will be extremely profitable considering that they will be a prime target for people wanting to ambush them (for ransom).  You need the Luxury and The Firepower to successfully run a VIP Shuttling mission.
• This better display technology probably translates to other items not necessarily indicated yet on the Brochure (since it become minutia details ) like better Avionic, CPU, Piping, etc... all the inner guts of the Phoenix are probably also top of the line.
• Phoenix has a point defense system Class 9 - that is designed to shoot down missiles (Ben confirmed this) (THIS IS HUGE)
• P72 Archimedes is suppose to be  a lot better than the P52 Merlin
• Linx Rover vehicle
• And probably the Biggest thing is the Power Plant Size 7 - which all other Connies are at 6 (Freelancer at 5 and Retaliator 6) (THIS IS HUGE).  It give more power to the Shields, Energy Weapons, Thrusters, Life Support, and all other ship systems !!!

 

 

 

power plant 6 to 7 (15%) is not so much, it is far less than SHornet 3 to 4 (25%) upgrade, i bet the class 9 autogun worth more than the powerplant.

anyway I think that thusters TR6 could be enough for the phoenix , a figheter Connie must rely on her SUPERIOR speed... (after all she is the millenium falcon) 

[Hammer173]

I just know I have mine with LTI and melting is not an option. If something better comes down the road that's worth loosing that (since I bought it off sight) like the Surveyor it will be done quickly. I guess I could offer it at cost to one of our members so someone who really wants one can have the complete Rear Admiral package.

[VoA]

power plant 6 to 7 (15%) is not so much, it is far less than SHornet 3 to 4 (25%) upgrade, i bet the class 9 autogun worth more than the powerplant.

anyway I think that thusters TR6 could be enough for the phoenix , a figheter Connie must rely on her SUPERIOR speed... (after all she is the millenium falcon) 

 

Actually the jump from Power Plant isn't linear like you suggest (not exponential either - CIG hasn't reveal to us the exact differences yet).  Rob mentioned this in an older WMH.

 

I also added this which could be big that you didn't have in your quote (that I edited later)

• Phoenix has Better Class 2 and Class 5 Weapons than any other Connie.
• The Phoenix also has a better Factory Engine

[Gallitin]

Didn't know the class 9 defenses will take down missiles, that's a big deal for me.

[StoneJamison]

Didn't know the class 9 defenses will take down missiles, that's a big deal for me.

No kidding, right?! Its the only thing (ok, one of several) that makes me still feel ok about buying the Phoenix. I honestly feel though that I am just wanting the Phoenix to be something other than it really is. But if wishes were wings we would all be flying... Oh wait, we all will be flying, this is a spceflight sim game...

 

All jokes aside, @VoA raises some very good points. I just want to have the the innards be modular. I've said it before, but the hot tub is just plain ludicrous. 

[Sassem]

Didn't know the class 9 defenses will take down missiles, that's a big deal for me.

was that not TBD  it's strange on ships specs page we do not even had class 9 hardpoints

[oneoff]

Removed

[DASKOMMTDAWEG]

The Jump will have an AMS too.

And I wonder how wonderful it will be vor C&C.

[VoA]

Didn't know the class 9 defenses will take down missiles, that's a big deal for me.

 

Ben Confirms this in

 

It is HUGE - especially if you get multiple attackers on your Phoenix.  Right now All missiles in Arena Commander are Heat Seeking (no Dumbfire / radar lock) - so Flare work but they will probably end up being more unreliable in the final release.  Keep in mind that Flares work well when deployed from a Single Engine Fighter (with only 1 main thruster)........ but I can't see a Flare working to well with 4 Big main thrusters.... same thing for Chaff.... considering the bulk of the Connie.

 

This is why the Bigger Capital ships will use Class 9 Defense systems (and the Phoenix will be the smallest ship with it).

[oneoff]

Removed

[flamadin]

 

Actually the jump from Power Plant isn't linear like you suggest (not exponential either - CIG hasn't reveal to us the exact differences yet).  Rob mentioned this in an older WMH.

 

I also added this which could be big that you didn't have in your quote (that I edited later)

• Phoenix has Better Class 2 and Class 5 Weapons than any other Connie.
• The Phoenix also has a better Factory Engine

 

 

You are right, we do not know how TR increments works, anyway I said that because in the majority time of a dog fight, you will not fire all the connie guns (8X size 4 guns) but 2 o 4 depending by the situation... for that reason i can assume a size 6 isn't not so bad compared to a size7. The DP gun will drain more power  moving the guns group to 4 or 6, but only phoenix have the class 9 gun.

 

on the other hand, the standard equipment haven't a real worth because everyone will swap it for the best availeble asap... even the p52 for the p72 short range fighter.

that is an economy advantage if you have an LTI because you get all the standard stuff insured for free... but no more.

[VoA]

What I am waiting to see is how they handle the offensive capabilities for the phoenix. I would imagine (using the pdw as a indication of their intended direction) that the Phoenix will be more suited to defense and running than a front line ship. It makes more sense because you wouldn't really be in the thick of it with a VIP transport or C2 platform. However if you found yourself there it would be well equipped to defend itself and get out of the kill zone.

I think the Offensive and Defensive capabilities will both be better with the Phoenix because of the Larger Power plant (more power to shields and weapons) and because the Phoenix uses better (more expensive) equipment for everything (better Class 2 and Class 5 weapons systems and even a better shield system).  Even though the shield rating is the same doesn't mean that they recharge at the same rate and the Phoenix's shields will not only recharge faster but will also have more power from the larger power plant.  If you were to compare an Andromeda to a Phoenix it  is like comparing a Volkswagen to an Audi (same manufacture - but all around better vehicle with the more expensive one).

 

In a fleet (without an Idiris) the Phoenix's will be the Flag Ships of the Fleet (for the Admiral of the Fleet) for fleet battles.  Taurus will have little value (by comparison) being a Hauler... the Aquila will have better Value with its Scanners.... the Andromeda will have better Value than the other Connies (being the best missile boat)... but none of them will go stack up 1v1 vs a Phoenix in battle.  Does that mean the Phoenix is on the Front Line of the fight or does it hold back like a Capital ship should?  The answer is obvious.... the Andromeda's are on the front line... launching their missiles...and being more expendable... while the Command and Control Phoenix's are staging the battle field (again if this is no Idris or larger than a Frigate ship in the fleet). 

 

People are being blinded    by all that Chrome and Opulent Luxury with the Jacuzzi and other stuff  ..

 

.... to see the True Value of the Phoenix ...

 

 

 

 

You are right, we do not know how TR increments works, anyway I said that because in the majority time of a dog fight, you will not fire all the connie guns (8X size 4 guns) but 2 o 4 depending by the situation... for that reason i can assume a size 6 isn't not so bad compared to a size7. The DP gun will drain more power  moving the guns group to 4 or 6, but only phoenix have the class 9 gun.

 

on the other hand, the standard equipment haven't a real worth because everyone will swap it for the best availeble asap... even the p52 for the p72 short range fighter.

that is an economy advantage if you have an LTI because you get all the standard stuff insured for free... but no more.

 

The P72 will only likely be available to "owners of the Phoenix" or "Connie Combo Pack" ---- they may sell them separately but CIG also mentioned before that you could only get  a P52 with a Connie (will it happen eventually - sure after a few years of the PU probably

[Wu Jen]

The Pheonix does not come stock with C&C. Its an upgrade option that you can put on ANY Connie. I think your a bit blinded atm with it. No, offense.

[oneoff]

Removed

[oneoff]

From Ben

DeveloperBacker

Posted: 3:40PM

Hey guys,

The stats in the brochure are correct and have been correct since the ship launch. What happened is that the brochure came in and the stats on the website weren’t corrected from the (much older) version we’d used to mock up the layout. If you were confused by the different sets of stats, I am absolutely sorry. The web team caught the error yesterday and fixed it, but having the older version posted for so long is absolutely not how we would like this to work.

For everyone curious: the brochure specs reflect our current vision for the Phoenix, even when parts included there are not yet visible on the model (like the additional turret.) Missing parts in-game will be corrected in a future patch. The stats on the website have been updated to match the brochure (hopefully! Please post if you see any further disparity.)

If you applied a Constellation Phoenix upgrade between Friday and Sunday based on the incorrect stats listed on the website, CS is authorized to remove the upgrade and apply the cost to your account as store credit. You can submit a ticket through the normal process; please be aware that it may be several days to get through the existing queue and make these changes to your account. Personally I would advise against that, because it’s going to be an extremely cool ship, and will be one of the harder models to come by… but we want to make it absolutely clear that we didn’t put up fake stats to try and trick anyone into upgrading.

Why is it worth the pledge money? In addition to the more limited number created by RSI in a given model year, the ship uses top-of-the-line components wherever possible instead of the standard mass produced equipment seen on the other models. That’s the one thing we really wanted to get across in the new specs: every component should be better. It’s also currently the only way to get the (shaping up to be extremely cool) Archimedes snub fighter and the Lynx buggy.

If you’re interested in the broader role of the Phoenix, our thinking is that it’s more than just a decoration you can brag about (though it is that!) Between high class smuggling with the dampened hold, organization leadership, command and control (note the upgrade option in the brochure!) and the idea of being an ‘armored car’ for high value passengers and goods (think metal briefcase-handcuffed-to-James-Bond rather than bulk containers of flatcat furs.)

No Star Citizen ship is ever intended to be the ‘best one.’ Being the most expensive ship in a set of variants isn’t even intended to mean it’s the best of a group. It reflects the fact that it’s more limited in our universe and the fact that it contains more valuable (in terms of our economy system) components.

Finally, I do have to warn you: the stats will change again. And again and again. If you’ve ‘ran the stats’ and determined that a ship is too good to be true… it probably is. Between now and the time we launch, every single ship will undergo likely dozens of balancing changes. Some of them will make the ship “better,” and some of them “worse” in your eyes, but all of them will be necessary to make Star Citizen a fun, balanced and working game.

[flamadin]

I think the Offensive and Defensive capabilities will both be better with the Phoenix because of the Larger Power plant (more power to shields and weapons) and because the Phoenix uses better (more expensive) equipment for everything (better Class 2 and Class 5 weapons systems and even a better shield system).  Even though the shield rating is the same doesn't mean that they recharge at the same rate and the Phoenix's shields will not only recharge faster but will also have more power from the larger power plant.  If you were to compare an Andromeda to a Phoenix it  is like comparing a Volkswagen to an Audi (same manufacture - but all around better vehicle with the more expensive one).

 

In a fleet (without an Idiris) the Phoenix's will be the Flag Ships of the Fleet (for the Admiral of the Fleet) for fleet battles.  Taurus will have little value (by comparison) being a Hauler... the Aquila will have better Value with its Scanners.... the Andromeda will have better Value than the other Connies (being the best missile boat)... but none of them will go stack up 1v1 vs a Phoenix in battle.  Does that mean the Phoenix is on the Front Line of the fight or does it hold back like a Capital ship should?  The answer is obvious.... the Andromeda's are on the front line... launching their missiles...and being more expendable... while the Command and Control Phoenix's are staging the battle field (again if this is no Idris or larger than a Frigate ship in the fleet). 

 

People are being blinded    by all that Chrome and Opulent Luxury with the Jacuzzi and other stuff  ..

 

.... to see the True Value of the Phoenix ...

 

 

 

 

 

The P72 will only likely be available to "owners of the Phoenix" or "Connie Combo Pack" ---- they may sell them separately but CIG also mentioned before that you could only get  a P52 with a Connie (will it happen eventually - sure after a few years of the PU probably

 

 

yes, the phoenix will be be the best 1vs1 ship... that is out of question, but it worth 125$? well I already bought 2 phoenix upgrade but still not sure, when i bought the super hornet, i had no dubt, it worth 55$ for me (even little more). that's my real concern 

[StoneJamison]

@ Thank you for sharing this!