Opinions of Saitek X52 and other HOTAS

[Lesailles]

Greetings Imperium friends!

I've never used a joystick or HOTAS before in my life, but I'm looking to take the plunge for SC.

 

I have been able to find a second-hand Saitek X52 in great condition for around $100 (a new one from the cheapest store + delivery would cost $170 in Australia). Would an X52 be a good option for someone new to the whole joystick/HOTAS setup? 

 

If anyone currently owns an X52 or has extensive experience with HOTAS in general, I would love to hear your opinions.

 

The X52 has very mixed reviews, so I am quite unsure about whether or not to purchase it. Never having used a HOTAS before, I will probably not be as discerning as most people, so slight imperfections will probably not bother me. However, major design flaws or shoddy build quality are definitely a concern for me.

 

I'm keen to know your thoughts...

 

------------------------------------------

Please note:

If the X52 is not a good option and people want to suggest something else, I have been doing a lot of research online (of both standalone joysticks and HOTAS setups) and have had the following thoughts:

 

- As I don't really know whether I'll be able to adjust to it, I would like to set a price limit of $100 on whatever I buy. If I really get into using a a joystick/HOTAS, I'm happy to spend big when PU launches. Therefore this price limit removes the X52 Pro, X55 and Warthog from contention for now. 

 

- I really like the look of CH products and with my $100 price limit I could probably pick up a Combatstick, but can I use this as is? Without the twist in the joystick, how would I roll?

 

- The Thrustmaster T.16000M is supposed to be a great sub-$100 joystick (technically speaking), but design-wise it looks clunky and the button placement is less than ideal (both on the stick and on the base).

 

- The Saitek FLY 5 looks like a good option, but I'm worried it would tip over.

 

- Although there are many people out there who rave about the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, a few trusted friends have told me that they really struggled with it... thoughts?

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Lesailles

[Overlord]

I have an X52 and love it. Only wish SC would get the bindings up and working so I can use it without diving into files. 

[Imperius]

i also have a saitek x52 i love it but the spring has worn out had it about 7 years 

[Lesailles]

Thanks for the feedback, I think I'll go for it and see what happens.

[Wolfwyrd]

Potentially slightly off topic (as its about switching to a HOTAS rather than the gear itself) but - It's definitely worth trying. For what it's worth I have the Thrustmaster Warthog, here are some thoughts on switching to a HOTAS setup from KB/Mouse:

 

• Flying in general is far more intuitive - the stick gives great feedback and better precision for manoeuvring
  • However - with roll on the joystick and yaw on a hat on the throttle, it takes some getting used to. Easy to oversteer, twitchier to use than a mouse. Definitely needs more practice but lets you pull off manoeuvres that I found very difficult with a mouse (lazy barrel rolls become a joy) It also got me bitten by the bug enough that I'm seriously considering getting some pedals :/
• Precision Throttle Control - Having the throttle bar means its very easy to get just the right level of thrust rather than watching gauges you get an intuitive feel of where you should move the throttle
   
• Buttons! Buttons Everywhere! - You'll struggle to run out of buttons to bind in a hurry. This comes with the downside of needing to remember what button or switch does what. You can't use a mnemonic of a key any more, you need to remember "twisty lever 3rd from left is for eject"
   
• SC specifically - the "click and shoot" of the mouse goes away, this isn't necessarily a bad thing seeing as this is going away when the devs strip back the gimballed mounts for fixed firing as planned in the future (see the Bearded Space Viking for a far better overview than I'm capable of)

The long and the short of it is that I found it far more entertaining using a HOTAS and also found my flying to be more consistent and of a generally higher quality - but it was a learning curve to get there. I think your idea of getting a cheap(ish) set to start with is a good one. Try it for a fortnight and see where you end up

 

As a final aside, definitely read the Bearded Space Viking. That guy rocks.

[swiftwilly]

So many questions..so many answers...

 

What is your final budget? Sounds like you are willing to go top end if you like HOTAS feel right?

 

Also, what is your main worry? That you will find it hard to adjust? Of course you will, I came from 25 years of MKB into HOTAS just a few months ago, quiet frankly I hate it and SC so far prefers MKB to HOTAS, though I am sure it will change later on. 

 

Are you worried about money and how it will feel? Then go grab a $30 Logitech 3D from Dick Smith. If you enjoy it, I am pretty sure you can try to return it to Dick Smith for some store credit to spend on something else, of if not, you can just buy a proper HOTAS set up later on. 

 

I mean, look at it this way....

 

A.

 

You buy X52 for $100. Hate it. You waste $100....

 

B.

You buy a Logitech for $30. Hate it. You waste $30.

 

There is no significant difference in feel from flying x52 to a Logitech but the throttle if you are moving from a MKB. HOTAS just means you have a Throttle as well. The joystick from mouse is the biggest movement for new players, as it was for me.

 

Or

C.

Bite the bullet, get a proper HOTAS. I also suggest the X55 given that it is cheaper than the CH stick. Or if you are non budget mindset, go Warthog!

 

 

 

Also depends on how much you spent so far in SC and how dedicated you want to be? Do you have an Aurora and plan to stick with that?

 

I have spent about $1k in SC, I hate HOTAS, but figured might as well since I have got so deep into it.

 

I think you are too worried for the wrong reasons. You need to ask yourself better questions...

Do you want SC to feel more realistic? HOTAS

Do you want to be no.1 in DFM? Go with what you been using for most of your life

Are you willing to sacrifice a few months to get better with the HOTAS?

Do you have money issues? Is there a budget? Would you rather spend that money on another ship?

How long and dedicated will you be to SC?

 

 

I have been on a 1 month trip with HOTAS from MKB, hate it so far. That is my honest opinion. But I wouldn't of changed anything. HOTAS does feel more realistic...even if I am not as good on it as MKB. I will get better. I am up to wave 12 with HOTAS, MKB I could get to wave 15 after a month. Is 3 waves that much of a big deal? No. Are you really going to have that much 1v1 DFM type fights in the PU? I dont think so. I think PU will be much more orchestrated and calculated given how much money I have put into SC. If I get into a fight in the PU, you can bet your butt I am going to call my Imperium brothers to come help and warp in 10293812093 Idris to kick your butt!!

 

 

Message me if you want help. I got my X55 for cheap in Australia too. 

 

[IceManZaroth™]

On a related note for the X-52 it would be very helpful if someone was to post up a link for a X52 working profile for SC

[Lesailles]

Thanks @Wolfwyrd - you're post contained some extremely helpful information for someone who will be making the HOTAS transition.

Also, thank you @swiftwilly for your detailed analysis. I expect nothing less

To answer a few of your questions, I was just reserved about spending $240 on an X55 if I didn't like it. And a Warthog is a way off, as I would probably upgrade my whole PC before forking out almost $500 for a HOTAS alone.

I have decided to go with the X52 and my logic was as follows:

1. Buy the X52, adjust to a HOTAS, and as a mid-level system I might just keep using it after PU launches. If I don't adjust, sell if for close to what I paid for it (maybe lose $10 - $20).

2. Buy a joystick like the 3D pro, adjust, then fork out for a HOTAS and give away the joystick or sell it for practically nothing (probably losing $20). Or if I don't adjust, sell it and probably lose $20.

Either way, if I don't like the new controls I may lose $20. However, if I adjust: with the X52 I keep using it, but with the joystick I still lose the $20.

I've dropped around $450 on SC so far (Caterpillar, Freelancer and Gladius). So I'm invested enough to try to get the full experience with a HOTAS.

As you know, I'm a T&I man so I don't expect to be #1 on AC. At the same time however, I don't just want to roll over if I'm attacked by pirates.

[Wolfwyrd]

@IceZaroth™ - There's been a profile doing the rounds on the official forums that's been heavily tweaked and seems popular (direct link). I can't speak for its efficacy as I'm not an X52 user but if you feel like going full on mega-geek about things you can always build your own. The Constellation Schema Generator is pretty drag and drop and helps get a base profile together though the lack of load/save means you need to do the whole thing in one sitting.

 

@Lesailles - I'd be very interested in a follow up sharing your own experiences on the switch

[Lesailles]

Will do! I'll pick the X52 up tomorrow, but it's my wedding in a few days, so I will be pretty scarce for about a month until I'm back from my honeymoon. After that I'll give it some attention.

[Tiogan]

Yaw can be rebind with roll btw if you edit the html file. 

 

Here is mine config on a warthog.

 

<!-- Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS mapping -->

<ActionMaps version="0" >

  <actionmap name="spaceship_view">

<action name="v_view_yaw_left">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_hat1_left" />

</action>

<action name="v_view_yaw_right">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_hat1_right" />

</action>

<action name="v_view_pitch_up">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_hat1_up" />

</action>

<action name="v_view_pitch_down">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_hat1_down" />

</action>

<action name="v_view_cycle_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button15" />

</action>

<action name="v_view_dynamic_focus_toggle">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button11" />

</action>

</actionmap>

 

<actionmap name="spaceship_general">

<action name="v_toggle_cabin_lights">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button31" />

</action>

<action name="v_toggle_running_lights">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button32" />

</action>

</actionmap>

 

  <actionmap name="spaceship_movement">

<action name="v_yaw">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_x" />

</action>

<action name="v_roll_left">

<rebind device="keyboard" input="js1_button14" />

</action>

<action name="v_roll_right">

<rebind device="keyboard" input="js1_button12" />

</action>

<action name="v_throttle">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_throttlez" />

</action>

<action name="v_brake">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button8" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_match_vel">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button7" />

</action>

<action name="v_afterburner">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button2" />

</action>

<action name="v_strafe_up">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_hat1_up" />

</action>

<action name="v_strafe_down">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_hat1_down" />

</action>

<action name="v_strafe_left">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_hat1_left" />

</action>

<action name="v_strafe_right">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_hat1_right" />

</action>

</actionmap>

 

  <actionmap name="spaceship_targeting">

<action name="v_target_cycle_all_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button7" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_cycle_all_back">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button10" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_missile_lock_focused">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button2" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_cycle_hostile_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button8" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_nearest_hostile">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button9" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_cycle_subsystem_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button16" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_cycle_subsystem_back">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button18" />

</action>

<action name="v_target_nearest_landzone">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button21" />

</action>

</actionmap>

 

<actionmap name="spaceship_radar">

<action name="v_radar_cycle_zoom_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button4" />

</action>

<action name="v_radar_cycle_focus_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js2_button6" />

</action>

</actionmap>

 

  <actionmap name="spaceship_weapons">

<action name="v_attack1_group1">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button1" />

</action>

<action name="v_attack1_group2">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button6" />

</action>

<action name="v_attack1_group3">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button19" />

</action>

<action name="v_attack1_group4">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button19" />

</action>

<action name="v_weapon_cycle_ammo_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button3" />

</action>

</actionmap>

 

  <actionmap name="spaceship_missiles">

<action name="v_weapon_launch_missile">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button2" />

</action>

<action name="v_weapon_toggle_arm_missile">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button5" />

</action>

</actionmap>

 

<actionmap name="spaceship_defensive">

<action name="v_weapon_launch_countermeasure">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button17" />

</action>

<action name="v_weapon_cycle_countermeasure_fwd">

<rebind device="joystick" input="js1_button15" />

</action>

</actionmap>

</ActionMaps>

[Chemicalgibbon]

I love my X55 but very nearly bought an X52 Pro, the X52 either standard or pro is a handsome looking setup. Best of luck with it.

[swiftwilly]

Thanks @Wolfwyrd - you're post contained some extremely helpful information for someone who will be making the HOTAS transition.

Also, thank you @swiftwilly for your detailed analysis. I expect nothing less

To answer a few of your questions, I was just reserved about spending $240 on an X55 if I didn't like it. And a Warthog is a way off, as I would probably upgrade my whole PC before forking out almost $500 for a HOTAS alone.

I have decided to go with the X52 and my logic was as follows:

1. Buy the X52, adjust to a HOTAS, and as a mid-level system I might just keep using it after PU launches. If I don't adjust, sell if for close to what I paid for it (maybe lose $10 - $20).

2. Buy a joystick like the 3D pro, adjust, then fork out for a HOTAS and give away the joystick or sell it for practically nothing (probably losing $20). Or if I don't adjust, sell it and probably lose $20.

Either way, if I don't like the new controls I may lose $20. However, if I adjust: with the X52 I keep using it, but with the joystick I still lose the $20.

I've dropped around $450 on SC so far (Caterpillar, Freelancer and Gladius). So I'm invested enough to try to get the full experience with a HOTAS.

As you know, I'm a T&I man so I don't expect to be #1 on AC. At the same time however, I don't just want to roll over if I'm attacked by pirates.

 

Good plan.

 

Yea, so the reason why I said so many quesions because we don't know your situation 100%. I mean, upgrade to a computer is much more sensible. For me, the HOTAS was down  the list in priority. But after upgrades to my computer, enough SC ships, HOTAS was next.

 

Try not to hate the HOTAS too much like me!! stick with it, you will get better

[Lesailles]

When I get back in September I'll give it a good try and report back with my findings.

[thekalman]

Maybe a little late (as usual...) but whatever...

 

I'm always a fan of buying the most expensive HOTAS you can afford. There is a massive difference between a $100 HOTAS and a $200 or $300 HOTAS. The X52 isn't bad but it's not without its flaws, and with the X55 out and the X52 Pro, you're not likely to recover most of your money from it. CH and TM gear has significantly higher resale value.

 

CH gear is great (probably the best quality HOTAS on the market until you get up to the VKB stuff) but frankly unless you go for the entire setup I have issues recommending it. CH gear is really designed to be used in conjunction with all it's components -the peddles, throttle, and stick. The control software is second-to-none and only TM's TARGET software comes close. Price seems to be all over the place depending on where you are.. you can get the full set-up for around $300 at some places in the USA, around $450 in Canuckistan, but I've been told it approaches $700 at some places in Europe and on the bottom side of the world.

 

The Warthog is a great and feels solid, but a good chunk of the friction/moving parts in it are plastic. It's basically metal everywhere it doesn't matter for function, so if some one says its higher quality because it's metal that doesn't mean much. Very precise and very accurate stick but the verdict is still out on the longevity. It comes close to $800 where I am so it's pretty much a no-go, especially considering you need to spend another $150-$250 on peddles on top of that.

 

Saitek gear in general (at least since Mad Catz bought them) suffers from QC issues ranging from minor annoyances to products that are DOA. I've read several times people getting numerous DOA X55s. One guy gave up by the time he got DOA #3. having said that, the X55s that work, work well and the only people I've heard of that weren't pleased with their [working] X55s were people with a lot of experience with CH or TM gear, which tends to be higher quality and carries the price tag to go with it. The X52 Pro doesn't suffer from the QC issues so much, rather after 6-8 months of solid use they start to degrade (deadzone, hard to center, slack in the stick, stuff like that). But it's also a only a $120 HOTAS, so you can't expect massively high quality.

 

Regardless of what HOTAS you end up with, take the time to learn how to use the HOTAS software. I keep seeing tons of posts on the CIG forums and Reddit from people asking for profiles so they can use their gear. One of the biggest advantages of a HOTAS is that you can customize it exactly how you want, including things like macros, sensitivity and exponential response curves -say nothing of key remapping. I didn't need to touch the SC XML files until I decided to map another set of axis. Even then, the thumbstick axis are the only thing I touch in the SC XML files.. the rest I set up through the HOTAS software itself.

[Papagiorgio]

I bought the CH Fighterstick, throttle and the pedals for about $325 in total.  I like CH because they've been making flight sim hardware for decades, and everything is made from US-made parts (even if assembled in Mexico).  Also, their customer service is very good, unlike some of the horror stories I've heard about some of the Chinese-made sticks.  Everything on the CH units feels very solid and precise.  I'd buy it again.

 

Fighterstick link:

http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00006B84X

 

Throttle link:

http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00006B84Z

 

Pedals link:

http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0000512IE