RSI - Phoenix (Constellation)

[VoA]

Was only able to watch half of Geekdomo's StarCast Podcast - http://www.twitch.tv/wtfosaurus - but heard Ben say it would only take ONE WEEK to earn enough in-game money to outright buy a Connie. Now, I am not sure if he was saying a week of dedicated play time (that's my assumption) or a solid 168 hours, but regardless, it sure does put things into a new perspective, at least for me!

 

 

He is quoting Chris Roberts on "it will take you one week to earn enough UEC to get a Connie".... Not defined - but I assume that is hardcore gamming 8-10 hours a day...(about 60-70 hours).  Ben could not and will not give any more specifics because this comes from CR.

 

Here is the Recorded Version of Starcast today --->> 

http://www.twitch.tv/geekdomo/b/560548738

[xyphon]

I watched the Starcast and took out the following points from it from Ben (correct me if I am wrong)

 

1. Hulls of variants are unique to those variants (Cant have the Aquila front on other ships, no class 9 turret from Phoenix on other variants)

2. There is roadmap for changing the internals of a ship in the future after the release (we are stuck with the hot tub but they will likely allow us to remove it)

3. Taurus is really basic and wont likely be able to be upgraded sufficiently to fit other roles

4. No variant will be upgraded to be as good as another (ie Taurus wont be a Phoenix - ever)

5. Shield bubble appears to a distinguishing factor between variants

6. Rovers do count as part of the cargo and have Freight units (will lower current capacity) - but unknown at this point

7. There will be additional freight units for "personal effects" but its not fleshed out yet.

[VoA]

I watched the Starcast and took out the following points from it from Ben (correct me if I am wrong)

 

1. Hulls of variants are unique to those variants (Cant have the Aquila front on other ships, no class 9 turret from Phoenix on other variants)

2. There is roadmap for changing the internals of a ship in the future after the release (we are stuck with the hot tub but they will likely allow us to remove it)

3. Taurus is really basic and wont likely be able to be upgraded sufficiently to fit other roles

4. No variant will be upgraded to be as good as another (ie Taurus wont be a Phoenix - ever)

5. Shield bubble appears to a distinguishing factor between variants

6. Rovers do count as part of the cargo and have Freight units (will lower current capacity) - but unknown at this point

7. There will be additional freight units for "personal effects" but its not fleshed out yet.

 

^^^^ Yep yours is accurate (above) and adds onto my list (below)

 

 

 

 

Confirmed - there will be shuttling VIP missions in the PU for the Phoenix (and 890 Jump) per Ben in this weeks RTV 23:00m into vid

 

Confirmed - On Geekdomo's StarCast Podcast -  he also goes into upgrade clarifications.

• Phoenix comes with a TR5 Main Thruster but can be upgraded to a TR6 Main Thruster (and ONLY TR6's are available on the Phoenix - not available on any other Connie Variant - 1:26 into Vid).
• Phoenix comes with a Class 9 Weapon - and No other Connie has this Hardpoint so no other Connie Variant can have this.
• Ben Confirms that you can not take a another Connie Variant and upgrade it to what is Specific to the Phoenix.
• Ben mentioned that the Home Theater Screen inside the Phoenix (and in Bars in the PU - including the screens in your Hangar) will be able to tie into an In-Fiction news program (like watching Arena Commander Tournaments  or something on the Galacticpedia) -- This is something CR has mentioned in earlier interviews as something he wants - they don't know how they are technically going to do it but they are working on it.  He also mentioned it might be able to be tied into You-Tube and other streaming options
• The Rovers in The Phoenix and Aquila do count as cargo (FU's) but how much hasn't been defined.  The Rovers also have their own capacity to carry Cargo themselves.

 

[Comet]

I love the Phoenix and got the upgrade but I'm sure other ships will be announced and many of us may end up preferring another ship. I do have a concern. Do you guys think most of the community is aware that game ships hold no monetary value so to speak?

That the purpose is simply to help the project and that ships are a symbolic token of gratitude for our support ?

Chris has stated multiple times that the game is not P2W. That even limited ships like the Phoenix will be available for players to buy in game. And that people shouldn't need to take months to get new ships.

Do you guys think people are aware of this or are people getting ships like the Phoenix because they think they won't be able to get them in game?

[xyphon]

I love the Phoenix and got the upgrade but I'm sure other ships will be announced and many of us may end up preferring another ship. I do have a concern. Do you guys think most of the community is aware that game ships hold no monetary value so to speak?

That the purpose is simply to help the project and that ships are a symbolic token of gratitude for our support ?

Chris has stated multiple times that the game is not P2W. That even limited ships like the Phoenix will be available for players to buy in game. And that people shouldn't need to take months to get new ships.

Do you guys think people are aware of this or are people getting ships like the Phoenix because they think they won't be able to get them in game?

 

@Comet

 

Good points but in relation to "ships are a symbolic token of gratitude for our support" is in my view incorrect. CIG has often promoted "ship sales" and used them to increase their funding. Its easy to say that its symbolic but in reality, that's the "product" they are selling (and they are trying hard to sell the Phoenix). They are not marketing it as "we need more funds, so please give us $400 and we will give you a symbolic ship which holds no monetary value".

 

CIG has made it clear its pay for convenience and that comes across quite clearly to me. People may be getting the Phoenix to hedge their bets that CIG will make the Phoenix hull difficult to obtain ingame. The rarity of "limited edition" hulls in the PU is unknown. If you punt on it and it is rare to obtain, then you have bragging rights everytime you bring it out

[Comet]

@Comet

Good points but in relation to "ships are a symbolic token of gratitude for our support" is in my view incorrect. CIG has often promoted "ship sales" and used them to increase their funding. Its easy to say that its symbolic but in reality, that's the "product" they are selling (and they are trying hard to sell the Phoenix). They are not marketing it as "we need more funds, so please give us $400 and we will give you a symbolic ship which holds no monetary value".

CIG has made it clear its pay for convenience and that comes across quite clearly to me. People may be getting the Phoenix to hedge their bets that CIG will make the Phoenix hull difficult to obtain ingame. The rarity of "limited edition" hulls in the PU is unknown. If you punt on it and it is rare to obtain, then you have bragging rights everytime you bring it out

I understand the intention. If you don't have time you may decide to waste some money to get your ship of choice faster.

But people consider a game P2W when it is so hard to get something that it stops being fun and you end up needing to waste real money or/and when an item is only available to people paying with real money.

So what you're saying leads me to believe that you think SC is P2W. Is that so?

[xyphon]

I understand the intention. If you don't have time you may decide to waste some money to get your ship of choice faster.

But people consider a game P2W when it is so hard to get something that it stops being fun and you end up needing to waste real money or/and when an item is only available to people paying with real money.

So what you're saying leads me to believe that you think SC is P2W. Is that so?

 

@Comet

 

I think in today's Starcast, there was a discussion regarding what p2w means. In my view it is only p2w if money is required to access a "higher tier" of equipment not available to anyone else (just thinking world of tanks, and many other free to play mmorpgs). However, CIG has made it clear everything can be achieved without spending more than a person with the smallest pledge (say aurora mr) given time and patience. I think CIG is saying p2w is only if the game developers force you to buy certain items in order to gain an advantage you can never get from grinding (for example, Quality 10 components are only available from the pledge store and not available to purchase in the PU).

 

And I think I said bragging rights - not really a p2w advantage per se

[Comet]

I see. Like the cosmetic items in Guild Wars 2. Doesn't give an advantage. Just to make you look cooler.

In your opinion do you think they will sell ships for real money when the final game comes out and if so do you think current prices will apply?

[xyphon]

I see. Like the cosmetic items in Guild Wars 2. Doesn't give an advantage. Just to make you look cooler.

In your opinion do you think they will sell ships for real money when the final game comes out and if so do you think current prices will apply?

 

@Comet

 

We might be digressing from this post but I understand that at launch, the pledge store will be closed forever. The only pay for convenience option available will be for UEC limited per day. I think the in-game prices will vary between 2-3x the pledge store prices, depending on how the economy system looks like.

 

I think CIG has never confirmed what the dollar to UEC ratio actually is so it may be a bargain now in the pledge store or you may be ripped off. That's another issue CIG has put off to deal with another day

[CyberianK]

I see. Like the cosmetic items in Guild Wars 2. Doesn't give an advantage. Just to make you look cooler.

In your opinion do you think they will sell ships for real money when the final game comes out and if so do you think current prices will apply?

They said that the current pledging will stop and replaced with only ingame money.

They also said though that there will probably still be some entry package.

 

So if they are true to their word expect no constellation and other pledges possible. There might be a few starter packages (Aurora, 300i... ?) for peoples coming new to the game. Of course these peoples can probably also start without a ship for less money.

 

On the other hand it will be very tempting for them to keep the pledges running even after PU start. So it might be that in two years or so there might be a Letter from the Chairman:

"Hey guys we have realized it is better for the overall health of the game to keep ship pledges even after PU and a recent poll shows this is also what the majority of our backers wants. We realize that we said this won't happen two years ago but with all the developments since then we think it is our responsibility to adapt to the new situation"

or something like that.

Hopefully though I hope it will end after PU.

[Comet]

Thanks for the info. Indeed CIG could use an awful and unfair system if they wanted. But then again if they did so they would end up destroying any chance of success. They'll have to provide a balanced system as found in other games like Guild Wars 2. And if so, most probably you'll be able to get enough in game money to buy a good ship without breaking your bank account.

Does that mean that people will probably be able to buy a Constellation for far less money than they can now?

In truth, I think so. You either have a balanced system and that means fairer pricing or you have the current pledge prices.

Current system is probably just during the crowd funding campaign.

[Booster Terrik]

LOL imagine the shitstorm if they ever sell ships cheaper than they are now. I just do not think this will ever happen, it is a lawsuit waiting to happen if they do.

@Comet

I think in today's Starcast, there was a discussion regarding what p2w means. In my view it is only p2w if money is required to access a "higher tier" of equipment not available to anyone else (just thinking world of tanks, and many other free to play mmorpgs). However, CIG has made it clear everything can be achieved without spending more than a person with the smallest pledge (say aurora mr) given time and patience. I think CIG is saying p2w is only if the game developers force you to buy certain items in order to gain an advantage you can never get from grinding (for example, Quality 10 components are only available from the pledge store and not available to purchase in the PU).

And I think I said bragging rights - not really a p2w advantage per se

Personally I also think it is pay to win if the only chance you have of reasonably progressing through the game means buying UEC/Gems/Etc. so you can upgrade your factory/castle/spaceship in 1 sec instead of having to wait for 2 days or have to save up resources all the while hoping not to get robbed versus using the buy now option. Theorethically these IOS/Android games are not PTW but for all practical purposes they are (Clash of clans, BoomBoom beach, etc.)

Chris could do something like this eg. : lose your ship --> pay 1 insurance token to get it replaced right away or wait a week for a regular replacement. Insurance tokens are granted for free to everyone 1 time a week and you can buy them at the pledge store for €5 a piece --> no pay to win ;-) Engine upgrades for a connie cost the equivalent of 5 days worth of UEC or €5. If enough people follow the € route then the game becomes effectively PTW because the rest of the players will feel the need to also follow that route to stay competitive.

..... Not me though ..... ;-)

Double posts merged

-Weyoun of Borg

[Weyoun]

Well people are insane if they are going to sue over someone else getting a better deal than them on a convenience gift given for a pledge. Also, they will be cheaper. after release you will be able to get all these ships for $0

 

also, the stuff you have to buy now to use in arena commander you WILL be able to 'unlock' within arena commander, even though that won't give you the item in the persistent universe.

 

here is what lots of people fail to realize: The ONLY thing you are 'buying' is a chance to 'me first'.  Only buy ships if you are impatient and/or you want to support development of the game.

[Comet]

LOL imagine the shitstorm if they ever sell ships cheaper than they are now. I just do not think this will ever happen, it is a lawsuit waiting to happen if they do.

If so Booster then they will have a shitstorm from all other people that will consider it simply not worth trading real money for in game credits.

There needs to be a perfect balance between in game money and the time it takes you to get it without the game becoming boring.

That will in turn have to be balanced with real world money.

The current prices don't fit well with a balanced scenario.

Weyoun is right. And as you mention Booster some people may not like the result when they actually need to balance everything for the final game.

Current prices simply cannot apply.

[VoA]

Can we move back onto topic please and have HR or an Officer move the specifically for this new Topic ?

(PTW is a very important Topic and it should be discussed and clarified - but this is suppose to be directly for discussions on the Phoenix).  I wanted to add to the discussion too on PTW but then thought that people will use this thread later on specifically for the Phoenix and don't want to wade through off-topic posts. - Thanks [[[ please remove this note --- but keep the rest of the post too once posts are moved to the - thanks ]]]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Ben Clarifies the issue of "Space Superiority" in a post yesterday on the RSI Forums (see link and his quote at the bottom):  ....   3 Days Left to get your Phoenix if you think you might want one.... 

 

 .........

Sahale, on 19 Aug 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

 

Do I want other Orgs to purchase all those Phoenix that our members accidentally melted? ----- No - that's why I am trying to refute any speculation that the Phoenix is just a Luxury Ship and show people that it still holds the title of "Space Superiority." -and it is the clear - Top Gun among all the other Connie Variants.

 

 

 

CIG Ben Lesnickwcloaf

 

Posted: August 21

 

 

"Space Superiority" is a role classification that means the model is designed to be good at shooting down other spacecraft (rather than, say, built for being an explorer or a luxury ship.) It is in no way a promise that a particular ship is superior to all others in every way. The term comes from Air Superiority Fighter, a designation used to mean the same thing in modern aircraft. (For context, the F-22 is an air superiority fighter, while the F-35 is a multirole fighter.)

(Also closing this thread; questions about refunds and legal issues should be directed to Customer Support and not forum users.)

[Serxon]

Andromeda or Phoenix? As long as a Connie can take down 3 Horrnets, i ll be happy

 

In car language:

Volkswagen or Audi?

Whatever, as long as it s much faster than a trabant, I'll be happy :D

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant <-- if anyone don't know the "trabbi"

[Booster Terrik]

If the new stats are correct then there can be only 1 conclusion and that is that the Phoenix is THE best Connie variant for:

- combat

- smuggling/blockade running

- VIP transport

- speed

- survivability

It only comes second behind the Aquila for exploring (and possibly C&C ) and behind the Taurus ( and in a lesser sense behind the Aquila and andromeda) for freight.

For any role not involving voluminous freight and exploring the Phoenix is the BEST connie variant (and most likely it can become a close second to the aquila for exploring if you upgrade it with the right hardware)

I really hope the tr6 is true because that is the icing on my phoenix cake ;-)

[StoneJamison]

If the new stats are correct then there can be only 1 conclusion and that is that the Phoenix is THE best Connie variant for:

- combat

- smuggling/blockade running

- VIP transport

- speed

- survivability

It only comes second behind the Aquila for exploring (and possibly C&C ) and behind the Taurus ( and in a lesser sense behind the Aquila and andromeda) for freight.

For any role not involving voluminous freight and exploring the Phoenix is the BEST connie variant (and most likely it can become a close second to the aquila for exploring if you upgrade it with the right hardware)

I really hope the tr6 is true because that is the icing on my phoenix cake ;-)

It sure does seem that way. Pretty exciting! I'm very glad I kept my Phoenix! 

[VoA]

If the new stats are correct then there can be only 1 conclusion and that is that the Phoenix is THE best Connie variant for:

- combat

- smuggling/blockade running

- VIP transport

- speed

- survivability

It only comes second behind the Aquila for exploring (and possibly C&C ) and behind the Taurus ( and in a lesser sense behind the Aquila and andromeda) for freight.

For any role not involving voluminous freight and exploring the Phoenix is the BEST connie variant (and most likely it can become a close second to the aquila for exploring if you upgrade it with the right hardware)

I really hope the tr6 is true because that is the icing on my phoenix cake ;-)

 

+1 Agree - but also the Phoenix is behind the Andromeda for a "Multi-Purpose" role .... since the Phoenix has minimal cargo capacity (it's main drawback).  You kind of pointed this out before - but I don't want people to get down on the Andromeda now... since it is truly the Jack-of-all-Trades ship

[StoneJamison]

+1 Agree - but also the Phoenix is behind the Andromeda for a "Multi-Purpose" role .... since the Phoenix has minimal cargo capacity (it's main drawback).  You kind of pointed this out before - but I don't want people to get down on the Andromeda now... since it is truly the Jack-of-all-Trades ship

 

Yes, HOWEVER, it all depends on the kind of cargo. I'd much rather have less space but be able to transport high impact cargo--higher risk, yes, but higher reward and more fun! 

[xyphon]

I think all variants can carry high impact cargo with high risk. Taurus also has the shielded cargo bay. So the Phoenix is not as good as the other variants in this respect.

Phoenix can carry VIPs which may or may not give a better return per trip

[Kemalis]

My only regret is I didn't have a rear admiral LTI package to upgrade my phoenix.  I hope I can afford the insurance and repairs on this ship!

[xyphon]

If you have another ship/package with lti, you should be able to cross chassis into the Andromeda when it gets released in AC and then you can apply the Phoenix upgrade

[Cinderz]

I demand a waffle maker and a coffee pot alarm clock for the captians quaters!

 

Though the Phoenix is a luxury variant of the constellation, I still see it being a very effective craft due to the upgraded plant/shield/turret weapons at least with the standard loadouts of the consellations. It all comes down to what can be fit on the ship versus the others; it will look prettier but it will last longer in a firefight, have more power to the shield generator to allow for an escape, and has a better escort fighter standard as well. It is all speculation and theorycrafting but all we have is numbers to go off of from the ship specs page and all I see is better equipment overall in general though nothing specialized like the Aquila variant.

[Shani Mukantagara]

The one thing I noticed from the video linked in this thread is the fact that there is no 'entrance' to the bottom turret as it looks like 'the lower seat' is the 'hidden' cargo bay for smuggling.

 

I was looking forword to splashing some cash on a connie upgrade but I don't like the look of the Phoenix and it would look out of place in the Astroid hanger. I do not know if I should buy an upgrade and wait it out or not, it looks like they havn't sold many of the upgrades/ship packages at all.